Author Topic: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!  (Read 2020 times)

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Offline crazycanuck

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waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« on: April 27, 2006, 00:01:39 am »
How old is your child? - 8 months
What’s his/her daily routine?
* At this time not a very good one due to major teething -separation anxiety (I think) a new helmet he has to sleep in and learning to roll from back to tummy........here was today

wake 6:30
bottle 7 - 6-7ozs
solids 8 - cereal and fruit usually
Nap at 9:00 - slept 1.5hrs
bottle at a 11:00
lunch at 12:00
nap at 1:00 (only slept an hr today phone woke him up  :-\)
A time till
solids at 5:00
6:15 bath and bottle at 7:00 - to bed after (only tonight he stayed awake and rolled around all over and didn't fall asleep till 7:30)



What’s nap routine? - i try to get him awake for 3hrs but he has never been able to stay awake as long as that 2.5 and hes ready (if i stretch him he gets overtired and doesn't sleep as long) I sit with him usually and rock/sing to him until I see a few yawns in a row and then I put him in awake and sit next to the crib (only as of late cause he usually freaks now when il leave) and sing and shhh him till he is pretty sleepy then i slip away
How long are naps? - usually 1.5 - 2hrs (on a normal day)

Do you bottle or breastfed?? - bottle
How much? or how long? every 4

How many wakes per night? ha!!!!! last night he was up at 8:15 and back down just a shhhh and pat and he was out - then he was up every20 mins from 10:30 - 12:30 - needing shh pat and picking up etc., up again at 3:30 same routine to get him down - then up again at 6:30 for breaky and to start the day.............

When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? well normally i would wait till it sounds like i am needed to make sure he isn't going to go down on his own but lately I have been going in cause he doesn't ever get there and if Islip in right away and just give a quick shhh and pat he's out again (most of the time)  I get him settled by sitting next to the crib and softly singing to him patting him or gently resting my hand on him and shhhh'ing, seems to work quickly some times others not sometimes i think i've got him and as soon as i get up and go he wails others hes out (but not for long)
What have you tried to settle?? mentioned most of them - we have a sleep sheep in his crib we turn on and it shuts off automatically on its own after 20 mins it plays a soft rain noise - sometimes we have the fuzz on the radio on very softly as we live near the street

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? major teething rolling and new helmet

Do they have a prop? If so what is it? no props - not that i think are props - his prop his thumb!!!!!!
Do they have a lovie? yes he has a blanky I always give him - he likes to rub it against his face and rub it with his fingers


So What do you think????!!!!! ???
every 20 mins..........gotta be separation anxiety!!!



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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2006, 13:41:36 pm »
imho i don't think that every 20 min waking at night is due to separation anxiety - lo isn't able to make it through sleep cycles and is probably jolting and waking himself.

i think that 1.5 to 2 hrs is quite long for naps for a lo this age - i think ideally lo is probably not tired enough to sleep through the night as my lo at that age could only have about 2.5 hrs naps/day maximum without having night wakings. i also think that you could stand to stretch out pm A time (before pm nap) a bit since that should be a longer A time than the am A time. if you do this than lo will be able to make it to bedtime without getting at all overtired as for ex 'today' when lo woke at 2pm he was awake from 2pm until 7:30 - that is a very long time for a lo that age, even more so when he is only used to being up for approx two hrs at the other A times. i  think you could def stretch out the am A time by 15 min, and the pm A time by at least a half hr to 45 min - although do it slowly and make sure the stretched out time is low key as lo will be tired as he is used to going down for naps at these times. i think stretching out A time and limiting naps would do wonders for your nights! btw - if naps and A time exceed 4hrs for feeding - don't worry about it too much - my lo at that age would sometimes eat/nurse every 5-6 hrs instead if that's the way the day fell - try not to stress about it - lo is ok without food that long as long as you still get in 4 feeding (bottle) and three meals.

it does seem that by the pattern of wakings for the first hrs after of bedtime, your lo is in fact overtired - even though he is getting plenty (possibly too much) day sleep - he is still overtired from the long A period before bedtime. it could be the extra 3:30 waking is due to the fact that lo is in a restless sleep due to the earlier wakings kwim?

if after trying out what i have mentioned there are still some problems (although i thing that should solve almost everything - you still may have to do sleep training if waking has become habit but i think mostly it should fall into place!) you could sleep with the blanky for a night and get your scent all over it - and that should help solve the problem if it is in fact separation anxiety adding to the present problems.

good luck with everything! and let me know how things are progressing!
Tawnya
Mommy to Alecksandria
June 11, 2005




Offline crazycanuck

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2006, 14:21:45 pm »
Thanks so much for your long reply......I totally get what you are saying - it makes sense and this is what we are striving for and have been for a long time!!!  Particularily getting the aft nap later in the day.......It is impossible to do though (well so far) as he wake very early in the mornings - if he woke at 7 - or  8 consisitently this would help things but he doesn't........he wakes anywhere between 5- 6:30 (i know you think fixing the other will make him sleep later) it is unlikely i think.......he has always been an early riser...7 is the latest he has ever slept.  I can try extending him but what happens then is he becomes overtired for his naps and doesn't sleep as long so he's up earlier anyways.....so say i push him later well he just doesn't sleep as long.....so he still has a long time between aft nap and bedtime...........I know the recommeded amount of sleep at this age and he is right in that amount..........also, with his major teething (he'll have six in a month almost) all of this is thrown off and out the window.......

also, what do I do on days like today.......we had a better night - he woke at 10:30 I did a tumm rub and shh and he fell back asleep pretty easily then he was up at 3:30 but put himself back to sleep and then woekn around 5:45 and played in his crib till 6:15 before getting foul......so , he slept better but is still major exhausted for several night of little sleep.........so at 8am is is soooooo tired haveing been up already for 2hrs 15mins (sooo tired he won't eat as well at 8am) so I put him down because he needs to catch up on his sleep he's exhausted and it's 10:18 and he is still sleeping..........(night sleep was 10hrs total) so day shouldn't exceed 4 hrs of napping so I am letting him sleep I needed it and I know he did huge!!!

I am working on getting him up later - we have sttled on 6:30 - so when he was up the other am and crying at 5am - I went in and did pu/pd with him for 1.5hrs till 6:30 then brought him down , next day he slept till 6:15 next am till 6:30 so I think that helped but today was 5:45 buthe was able to amuse himself till 6:15..........

KWIM????????


Sarah

P.S - My ds has never been able to stay awake the "reccommended amounts of time."



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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2006, 14:58:53 pm »
i think it is good if he doesn't nap as long as he really doesn't need naps to be that long and that in itself is more than likely contributing to early wake ups in the morning. if you do get all of these things in line i am sure it will solve your problems...they are all relative of each other! as i said lo will be tired when trying to extend A time b/c he is USED to sleeping at that time - that's why you have to stretch it out slowly so he doesn't get overtired (and as i said keep it low key!). and if he does wake earlier from naps, then i would def opt for an earlier bedtime rather than letting lo get overtired by the regular bedtime.

i understand he is getting the 'recommended' amounts of sleep but they aren't being distributed so that he is sleeping enough at night..rather he's getting it through naps. and the 'recommended' amounts is just a guideline - nothing set in stone as every lo is different and should be catered to individually. i have come across many different 'recommended' amounts and rarely do i find any that are the same - that is b/c all lo's are different and have different needs.

my lo got 5 teeth in 3 weeks and although we had an odd waking - it wasn't like what you are experiencing and i am afraid if you don't try some options then you will have reinforced this waking and it will be harder to break in the end kwim?

i really don't think that your lo is as tired as you think he may be... you are definately more tired b/c you aren't making up for the lost night sleep with lots of daytime sleep. if you are putting lo down earlier for naps (although i don't think that waking up early he should be up to a reg nap time - but later than i think when he is going down now..) than he will never learn to sleep through the night as you said, he is tired and needs to 'make up' for the lost sleep...if you weren't sleeping well at night would you NEED the nighttime sleep? letting him 'catch up' on the sleep through an early morning/long morning nap is only reinforcing the wakings/early waking - i would def keep him up even a little bit longer and def limit that nap so he's not catching up on the sleep and will start sleeping later in the morning. also, the earlier bedtime would let lo 'catch up' on sleep at a more appropriate time as he won't have the option in the morning.

doing pu/pd is good - but (at 5am) not necessarily fitting as lo isn't tired - it's not that he's not able to get to sleep on his own...or has sep anxiety...he's not tired so i don't think that pu/pd is really the answer to this situation.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 17:11:27 pm by teezee »
Tawnya
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June 11, 2005




Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 14:31:33 pm »
Has this gotten worse since the helmet was introduced? If so, it could definitely be partly related to that - it may take time for him to learn to sleep with it.

As for the SA - instead of staying in the room until he falls asleep, can you gradually start to leave the room - and comfort him with your voice if he needs? Otherwise if he gets too used to you always being there, that may lead to more wakings - for example, in the middle of night when he tosses and turns and normally falls back asleep, he will start to always need you there, KWIM?

As for limiting naps and extending A times, maybe you want to find a balance? For example, instead of cutting to 2.5 hours maybe try limiiting total nap time to 3 or 3.5 at most and see if that helps? I know for us, 2.5 only leads to overtired baby and doesn't help extend morning wake up time - but every LO is different, of course.

At 8 months you definitely do want longer A times though. Can you gently extend them by even just 5-10 minutes every 3 days? What if you take him for a walk in a sling or stroller outside? Read extra books? Watch a bit of TV if it relaxes him? Ideally you'd like that first nap between 2.5-3 hours after waking and the second nap 3 hours after waking from the first...
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline crazycanuck

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 17:03:28 pm »
hi everyone,

so i got him napping later in the aft yesterday and today has been a right off (grr sometimes if I let hubby do things it ends up being more stressful and more time consuming for me)
Anyhow, I am trying to get him later for am and pm nap and limiting the time he sleeps - I guess I can't let him catch up during the daytime, it makes sense i suppose - if I let him catchup he gets used to sleeping in the day and turns him around - gotcha!!  Ok so here is what I am going to try - k??? I am going to have an am nap time of 9:30 everyday regarless of when he gets up.....1.5 length.....then I will try for 2:30 - 3pm nap in the aft of 1.5hrs.......and i will do this no matter what right??? Just get him used to it and hopefully even though the teething is a huge prob right now he'll have some consisitency for when the teeth go away.........last night he only woke 3 times between 10- 12:30 and then slept till 6......I am already doing a 2.5 3  in the am though.....a 6am waker is 3hrs already at 9......anyhow, the helmet I'm not sure about - he seems to deal really well with it.....so the SA - if he fusses I wait but until how long you know untill hes right ticked or go in right away.........sometimes he doesn't even look at me his eyes stay shut the whole time and I just rest my hand on his tummy (he seems to do this humping motion allot - men!!) and hes out again he doesn't even look at me.......so what do I do - wait then go in and gradually move away even if he fusses.....cause you aren't supposed to ignore if its SA - your supposed to respond - this is where i am shady a little...........
The poor kid his cheeks are just flaming - it hasn't stopped for like 1.5months!!!!!!!

Oh and the earlier bed time??? hmm dunno - i don't want him up earlier - even when he was sleeping through he was only at 11hrs and if I put him down at 6 or  6:30 that might mean the 5- 5:30 wake up and I am not so interested in that - trust me 5:30 and 6:00 are hugely different - I think anyways!!!


tata





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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 17:32:21 pm »
ok don't want to confuse you BUT i wouldn't worry sooo much about the clock - if you are shooting for a ie 2.5hrs A time than go for that - do try to keep in on track BUT don't be stuck on a 9:30 nap kwim? the days should slowly iron themselves out and be more 'normal' with a little time and consistancy! if he wakes at six put him down around 9 then, but if you think it's 'possible' try keeping him up and extra 10 min to stretch it out..if not that's fine too - you just have to keep working with it and it is a juggling act to balance everything but one day with all your efforts you will see it will just click!

the earlier bedtime may surprise you if you choose to try it - i too was hesitant been when dd was missing naps or dropping naps etc i did it and she slept fine. the reason i suggested it to you is b/c if he is not making up the extra hrs in the day - he still needs to make up for it at a different time kwim? - even if it's a half hr to 45 min earlier bedtime - it's something extra and may help bring him closer to a reg wake up time. he still needs the sleeping hrs - but just redistributed so mommy can get a break ;) and yes 5:30 and 6 am are on two different levels. when my dd started with the early wake ups it was from 8am to 3:30 - 4am - ha! try that on for size...took a whole lotta tweaking the routine on my part, which is not easy i understand when you are used to something..i guess we all need to be reminded sometimes that are lo's are growing up..and with that their needs change also...

if it is just a mantra cry - try to resist going in - i know i used to rush in when dd cried and when i stopped and waited a min or two longer each time i was really surprised how well she did fall asleep on her own. even at this age - a loud wail can be a mantra cry...it seemed when i waited a bit longer (a min or two or three) as soon as i got to her door i wouldn't hear anything...:) could it be your lo is just trying to put himself to sleep?

as far as teething - i am sure you do but wil ask anyway...do you give tylenol before bedtime? when he wakes you also might want to try orajel - worked wonders when my lo was teething and she went right back to sleep...better if you can do it in the dark though ;) that's a fun thing to do!

so how are the naps going? longer? shorter? and how about the wake ups at night? and the morning wake up time? any better or worse since you have been playing with the A times??
Tawnya
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June 11, 2005




Offline crazycanuck

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2006, 13:26:04 pm »
well he slept through the night last night - yay that was nice  ;D- but naps have been horrendous........it take me .5hr of pu/pd to get him down for a nap - he is screaming at his naps - non-stop crying - I pick him up and he cries - put him down and he cries......neverending, yesterday was like 45mins of that till he fell asleep and then he slept for an hr..... same with today - I put him in his crib at 9:10 and it took me about 7minutes of pu/pd to get him down - he wails and wails soooo upset - this is more concerning for me because the helmet makes him hot and when he cries like that because of thehelmet he sweats like the ens and overheats.........the pu/pd doesn't really work as it should in a way either cause Tracy says as soon as they stop crying to put them down - well he doesn't stop when I pick him up so I just hold him (no rocking or jiggling) and shhhhh and sing to him and if he calms a little i put him down and if he continues to cry after a minute of me still being there but shhhh ing i pick him back up.....my concern though - aren't I becoming  a prop here..............by the shhhhhing.......or no?? It seems to me it would be considered a prop - cause he needs me to be there to calm him with the shhhhing - I can't just leave the room everytime I put him down because he is often still crying and she says not to leave them KWIM??? ???

I totally understand what you mean about the not having to stick to the 9:30 and 2:30 times - I just stuck those in as a means of explaining my understanding - believe me I am a fan of structure and predictability for our little ones but not a fan of being rigid......I can't count how many times I have told other moms they are just guidelines!!!! 

Anyhow - he is still teething - did you see how red his cheeks are in the pic?? poog little guy - I am using orajel, motrin, and he gets a homeopathic remedy called consolin to help with the teething......

I will post again and let you know how things are going......thanks!! ;D



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Offline crazycanuck

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2006, 20:18:53 pm »
k so - if I have to go out somewhere and he is late for a nap - how late should I let him nap - i was home today right around nap time but oo close to bottle time - he wouldn't nap cause he was hungry - so I fed him and then tried to put him down after that - 45mins later of pu/pd and calming he fell asleep at 4:15 - is this too late ? or should I have just let him stay up? but then he would be going to bed overtired and have a restless night sleep right??  I thought the answer would be to let him nap but not too long - right???!!! ??? I thought maybe .5hr - 45mins - this way he isn't sleeping too much right before bed at 7pm.......what do you think??

now that he slept through the night last night it was great - but this pu/pd and screaming at nap times is killing me...........does it ever end I can't remember when I had even a few consecutive days that went well _ I  did from like 4 .5 - 6 months and then he started teething :( This is the only time since he was a baby that days actuallly went well and I wasn't stressed out......is everyone else having the same time? I have been following BW since 4 months and not cheating..........i admit for like a month things were good but it didn't last long - damn teeth

bye

Sarah



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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2006, 04:20:15 am »
i would def feed lo first and then put him down for his nap..i would wake lo no later than 5:30pm..that's what i would do with my dd - but i know her limits - she has never been able to nap later than that without having some sort of night wakings as the result. i think you are absolutely right about not letting lo get overtired and you did the right thing by getting him to sleep!

keep working on the naps..if he is waking at 45min - i would suggest wake to sleep (if it is always the same time...).

let me know how things are going!
Tawnya
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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2006, 17:10:17 pm »
how r things??
Tawnya
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Offline crazycanuck

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2006, 23:41:42 pm »
the nightwakings are better than they were - his 5th tooth did break through which is prob helping as well.....the napping in the day is better as well - better than it was - but now we have a new development - he is hard to get down for bed at night now!!!  grrrrrr...... he doesn't want to go to sleep he is playing and chatting away in his crib and wails every now and then we have to go in and out off and on - we let him go abit but only go in when we need to.....hmm if its isn't one thing its the next!!!  So yes the naps are better and the night wakings have decreased as well - so this is good but now he doesn't want to sleep at night!!!!!!! ??? :-\ :'(

you had suggested moving bedtime earlier - i don't think earlier will work for him - some days he seem overtired and other days he seems (like tonight) he isn't tired at all!! I am letting him sleep pretty much no more than 3hrs in the day as well....he was up this am at 5:50 (wet and full of poo  :-X) and he had a 2hr nap in the am (long but I kept him up the 3hr and even 15mins extra time before I put him down for his nap so he has consistency with the times) and then 1.25 in the aft . Longer today than usual but because he was up sooooo early......anyhow - so what to do about bed time now - we never never never had trouble with bedtime!!!! I never thought we would have trouble with bedtime!!!

What do you think????


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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2006, 14:59:28 pm »
would you mind posting the new routine for me to take a look at? is he perhaps not tired enough for his bedtime now for some reason?? or it could be that he is overtired by that point..
Tawnya
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Offline crazycanuck

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2006, 10:53:37 am »
ok so........thank you so much for all of your assistance in this but i have decided i am no longer posting anything re his sleeping because it is making me more frustrated!!! sitting here everyday trying to figure out why is driving me nuts!!! I am not letting him sleep more than 3hrs in the day, I am keeping him up 3hrs before putting him down and doing everything in my sanity without being housebound to get that afternoon nap later int he day so he isn't overtired.........he still wakes , and still always wakes at 4:30 - 5am - wide awake..........I have tried putting him down earlier like last night for example and he wakes at 12 and wide awake at 5:30 - se we spend .5hr getting him back to sleep till 6:30 somtimes its 7 or 7:30 - but it doesn't matter what I do - he still wakes at these times  and he's not hungry......My ds has never been able to sleep for 12hrs even when he was sleeping through without wake ups - 11hrs max.  But still wake ups are better but he still wakes every every night a good night is 2...........i had some relief and now he seems to be pushing that 6th tooth as the other came through - fussy again , fussy to eat again, more nightwakings.......so even with doing all the things i should for a baby to sleep through the night - he doesn't.............and its no coincidnece to me that he has another tooth coming........anyhow so as I said - no more sitting and stressing myself out about why.....I know what the baics are and I stick to them.........he has been difficult right from day 11 (colic, reflux etc.,).......................i think if there is a god.......i should get an angel baby next!!!!!! ;D here's hoping anyways!!!!!!


so thanks........ ;D

mother of a fussy everything baby!!!!





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Offline teezee

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Re: waking every twenty mins or so???!!!!! COME ON!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2006, 04:43:30 am »
it is very easy to get frusterated and i can totally undrerstand that with everything going on. the main thing is NOT to be frusterated so lo won't pick up on it and make him more aggitated and if that means that you don't take some of the suggestions that i have given than so be it. if your lo is used to waking up at certain times you may have to use w2s or pu/pd for it to be successful...hoping you are feeling better and that your lo is giving you a bit more sleep  :-\

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Tawnya
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June 11, 2005