Baby wakes up a lot at night

[shannon S]

Hi everyone, 
I have a 10 month old who has never slept through the night and I don't understand.  She still has no teeth, but I'm tired of the teething excuse.  She is healthy and eats her solid food well.  She usually drinks around 17-20 oz of formula per day and won't take any more.
I am currently working on getting her to sleep on her own...again.. 
It has never made a difference to her night waking.  Since she was 5 months old she hasn't needed a bottle in the night.  But she wakes a lot (crying)....most times I can put her soother in and she goes right back to sleep. Although lately she will be awake for over an hour at a time and usually doesn't cry if I stay there with her.  Some nights she wakes 5 times, others only 1 or 2, but she has only slept through the night about 4 times since she was born!  I'm trying not to rush in when she cries out initially, and yes sometimes she goes back to sleep but other times she wakes herself up completely.
I'm exhausted much of the time due to the constant waking (and I can't get back to sleep).
She naps really well (if we don't go out) and generally does get 10-11 hours of sleep at night and 3-4 hours of nap time (usually 2 in a.m. and 1 & 1/2 in p.m.).  She rarely cries during the day.  I put her to nap as soon as she rubs her eyes.  She goes to bed between 7 and 8. If we rock her she falls asleep immediately.  If not, she may be awake crying for a while.  At one time I had her going to sleep on her own consistently for a couple of weeks, but the night wakings continued.
I could go on and on. Does anyone have any idea why she might be waking up so much?  It never seems to matter if she is well rested or overtired...it is still the same.
thanks!

[cheriec]

shannon,
i'm going through the same thing with my 5 month old.  yesterday, the ladies here gave me some great tips and we had a great night last night, so take heart.  you might post your schedule so we can see what your lo is up to.  also read our thread from yesterday "help, i'm losing steam", it might give you some food for thought in the meantime.

[shannon S]

I have been spending a lot of time reading threads about sleeping.
I hate that I get frustrated with my lo at night. she is a very good baby during the day, very happy, and eats so well.  Perhaps if I post my schedule someone will have an idea of how to help the night sleeping.  (I did pu/pd for the last two nights....took 1 hour the first night and 1/2 hour last night....she tired herself so much that finally she was okay with my hand on her back.

7:15   bottle 6 oz (sometimes she plays in her crib from 6:30 until 7)
8:30   breakfast (5 tbsp cereal & 2 tbsp fruit)
Activity
9:15 - 10:45 or 11:15  Nap
12:00  lunch (2-3 oz formula, 4 tbsp vegies, 2 fruit, 2 cereal)
Activity
2:00 ish (usually 3 hours after waking from 1st nap)  - 3:00 or 3:30  Nap
3:30  Bottle (6 oz if lucky)
Activity
5:30  Supper (2tbsp protein, 3 vegie, 2 fruit)
Quiet activities
7:00   bedtime routine
7:30 bottle (6 oz if lucky) and to bed

Hope this helps. It may also help to know that I always read to my lo before naps and bed and always cuddle for a few minutes and sing lullabies.  She goes down quite easily for naps (only occasionally have to go in to do pu/pd or sit beside her).  She is a gem if I take her out anywere even if she is tired.   She sleeps so well for her naps usually so I just don't understand the nighttime waking.
Am I feeding her enough?  she wasn't drinking her 2nd and 3rd bottles when I had her on 4 bottles/day, so I've sort of switched to 3 bottles and the time of her afternoon bottle varies sometimes.  She is a good weight (Almost 22 pounds).
Maybe I should just thank my lucky stars that she is a good baby and come to realize that I will never get 8 hours of straight sleep?

Thanks!

[teezee]

i am not sure but have you tried upping lo's intake of solids? my lo takes quite a bit more than that..and what about finger foods?

i definately think you could extend A times some. i was at about the same with my lo and reading a bit more as i started to have a few wakings - it was time to extend A time again...although the first few days were tough as she was used to going to nap at a 'certain' time and seemed very tired...a few days later she is doing very well i extended am A time to a min of 3.5 hrs and before the pm nap approx 4hrs and then bedtime (just to give you an idea) although it takes a bit of time - gradually extend it so lo doesn't become overtired.

[Elphyrafire]

Just wanted to send you a virtual hug. We are going through EXACTLY what you described with our 5 mon old. I've gotten a lot of good advice from the ladies here. But it is exhausting! It's easy to second guess everything you are trying when it feels like nothing works.
I don't understand why my baby won't sleep through, either- it seems the reasons for nightwaking contradict each other a  lot so it leaves you in the land of WTF? Too much day sleep, too little day sleep, too much solids, not enough solids, overtired, undertired, over stimulated, not stimulated enough!
Hang in there!

[teezee]

elphyrfire - i take it things are not going well then??

[Elphyrafire]

Teezee/Tawnya,
Don't get me wrong, your advice did help A LOT! Getting him on 4 hour EASY cut down on the wakings and now he doesn't eat at night anymore (except for a DF)!  I'm just getting greedy again. I don't want ANY nightwakings at all- not even the ones where you need to pat/shush him! I have no idea why he's waking up- he has no good reason - it's not to eat and it's not to play and it's not pain. He just lay there and whimpers and if I don't attend to it it turns into screaming and him being wideawake! He is still swaddled and so sometimes he comes out of his wrap. So I just go in an pat him or flip him onto his other side or give him his paci or rewrap him. Oh we have tried leaving him unwrapped but he wakes every 20 minutes. I really need to catch up on some sleep before I battle that monster!
I think he doesn't know how to soothe himself to sleep yet and I'm really not sure what to do about it.
I am grateful that W2S and the 4 hour EASY appear to have cut out the habitual wakings however, I want to cut it all out! I'm still tweaking his naps. I'm not sure if they have any effect on the nightwakings at all.  Our schedule is pretty much Tracey's out of the book.
Thanks for checking up on me!

[shannon S]

Thank you for all your replies. At least I'm not the only one who is having a hard time.

I will try giving my lo more solids as I know she would take more.  (I wish I didn't have family members who think that what I'm giving now seems like a lot), and yes I have started some finger foods, but she plays more than she eats and still gags a little but we're movin up.
She actually drank almost 22 oz of formula today which is not like her....we'll see how she sleeps tonight.  It only took 15 minutes tonight to get her to sleep on her own.

Teezee, in response to your suggestion re: increasing activity time.  Currenly my lo is usually only awake 2 hours before her first nap.  So I guess even if she rubs her eyes, I should gradually keep her awake longer until she gets to 3 and 1/2 hours.  I think I could do that but how long do I let her nap?  She will easily sleep two hours in am.  Should I shorten that?  Maybe if I shorten her naps just a little she will sleep more than 10 hours at night?
What do most parents do for a 10 month old.  My lo usually sleeps 10 or 10.5 hours at night and 3.5 or 4 hours in the day.
Should I change this to 11 or 12 at night and 2 or 3 during the day if possible?  But of course there are some days she won't nap at all in the afternoon (which really makes no difference to her night wakings, ie. better or worse). We sometimes go out after her lunch and then  I make sure to get back in time for her nap and then most times she won't go down, it's like she's too wired.

Anyway, so many questions.....but just one other thing...How late is too late for our babies to take their second nap? ie. when might it interfere with nighttime sleep. 
thanks again everyone. It's great to get some ideas!
shannon

[teezee]

yes, move up slowly every few days and when you find what 'works' for your lo then that is probably long enough but def think it should be at least in the 3+ hr range at this age.

yes, i would also limit naps some and it will help lo sleep longer stretches at night. i would limit your lo to approx 2-2.25hrs of naps/day although i would recommend doing that slowly also - not as slowly as the A time - but not all at once either. i usually just open her door and make some extra noise on the same floor and within a few minutes she is usually up - not always happy about it - i wouldn't be too happy if i was woken up either but nonetheless - it works and is for the greater good of mommy's sanity ...and everyone's sleep!

imo i think that lo is overtired on the days she won't/doesn't nap in the pm is b/c she is probably rested enough from a long morning sleep (shortest nap of the day 'should' be in the am) and then b/c she hasn't napped is overtired and therefore has wakigns b/c of that rather than the other..my lo was getting a 45 min nap and about hr and 15min nap/day i started getting wakings and i started tweaking a bit - she has now been on one nap for the last few days ( i DO NOT recommend this for your lo as of yet as she isn't used to staying up those lengthy amounts of times at this point) and doing very well on it - goes to show how different all lo's are!

and yes. likely lo is wired after going out - your lo sounds spirited like my dd!!   have you tried doing an extra long wind down and cuddle on those days?? helps alot with my dd.

i never let my lo sleep any later than 5:30 since she was younger. even now - if she needs a catnap of sorts b/c the one nap isn't getting her through to her bedtime and it's still too early to put her down for the night, i would rather have her reenergize with a 20min nap than let her sleep too late and have it throw off bedtime. again, all lo's are soo different - kind of trial and error for each lo kwim?!

[mthyne]

Shannon--
My son is 9 mos. (well, 2 days away), but he is on a pretty consistent schedule and generally sleeps through the night.  I thought I might post it for you (maybe it could help?):
6 am--6 oz bottle and back to sleep
8 am--wake up
8:30--solids
10:30--4 oz bottle
11:15--nap
12:15/12:30--wake
1:00pm--solids
3:00--4 oz bottle
3:30--nap
4:30/5:00--wake
5:30--solids
7:30--7 oz bottle, bath cuddle
8:00--bed
I don't measure the solids I give--I just feed him until he seems full/uninterested.  I split the midday bottle up so to extend the "A" times.  He always perks up after he eats something.  I know I just luck out with the going back to sleep in the am--sometimes he's up around 7/7:30, but I still stay consistent with his nap times (maybe only extending them 15 minutes if he wakes up early). 
Anyway, I hope you have some luck.  Let us know how you're doing!
Melissa

[shannon S]

Thanks again for the replies.  It is very helpful.
I shortened my daughter's naps yesterday and extended activity times.  I don't think it will take her long to get used to this, and I don't think she minded.  She is definately spirited and wants to know whats going on all the time.  She still woke up last night (only once) but she was awake for an hour.  I'm so upset with myself because I get so frustrated.  After 45 minutes of trying to get her to sleep again (in her crib) I decided to try a bottle because she was wailing.  She drank the whole bottle and then I put her in the crib and she went right to sleep.  I don't usually feed her in the night....but maybe that is why she is waking so much??
I'm worried about her intake of formula ( I guess I should post on the eating forum).....but yesterday she would not take more than 16 oz in total (waste a lot of formula).  I've tried 3 bottles a day or 4 but it doesn't seem to matter. 

I'm sort of learning more about myself.  I guess I'm not very patient.  I don't know why I expect my daughter to go to sleep as soon as she hits the crib.  So today I didn't worry about the exact time that she napped....I just started the routine 40 minutes before I wanted her to be asleep.  20 minutes of stories and cuddling and then I set her in the crib.  She played as happy as can be, babbled, stood up a lot (and I had to go in and rescue her), but what do you know, she did go to sleep on her own. It took 20-25 minutes for both naps which means she fell asleep exactly after being awake for 3 hours.   I'm so paitent during the day but at night I panic.  I get so frustrated because she's almost asleep in my arms and then wakes right up when I put her down. 

Tonight I will try exactly what I did for her nap.  If I want her to sleep at 7:30 then I will take her to her room at 6:45, read, bottle, cuddle and then into crib by 7:10.
Previously I was setting her in her crib at 7:30 and then panicking when she was still awake by 8 or 8:30.

good idea about the extra long wind down when we go out.  The usual scenerio is this....We go out, and on the way home she falls asleep for 10 minutes so I figure she is really tired.  So we go in the house and I try to just put her in the crib. I figured, she was asleep, no point in reading and waking her completely. (plus by then it may be a little past her nap time).  But now I think I understand that with these spirited babies, it takes a little more than that.

So thanks again.  Here's hoping for a good night.  i have to go and wake her from her nap now (1 hour 15 min).
shannon

[teezee]

could it be the nine month growth spurt appearing a little bit late??..or could lo have an upset belly from anything? i do know for a long time..too long i made the mistake of thinking dd was hungry at night b/c she would drain both breasts - but in reality her belly was upset and it was probably soothing ot put something in it and also to suck. may be something you want to think about.

just another thought - my lo is spirited also and i know that right before bed reading her books is too stimulating - maybe could this be posing a problem??

you said that she falls asleep in your arms and then wakes when you put her down? is this during the night wakings? middle of the night? first going to sleep at night? regardless this is def a habit you want to break as lo expects you to be there when she wakes. at all costs durnig the night try soothing her in the crib first! then you may need to do pu/pd for a few nights to teach her to fall back asleep on her own.

honey - don't be hard on yourself. we mothers (although others expect us not to be) are only human. i don't think that there is a mother out there that hasn't gotten frusterated with their lo's when having these kinds of ongoing wakings. we need our sleep too! i don't think ANYONE being woken this way in the middle of the night is at their best - so give yourself a pat on the back that at least you are trying and doing the best you know how to do!!..you are gathering information to try and help the situation and supporting lo the best you know how in the meantime - you are being a wonderful mom!!!

hope everything went well tonight..fingers crossed!!

[shannon S]

teezee,
I just want to clarify (I didn't explain myself very well).  I don't let my daughter fall asleep in my arms (anymore). When I said "she's almost asleep in my arms" what I meant was.....She finishes her bottle and occasionally closes her eyes before finishing. Then I put her in the crib and she is suddenly WIDE awake.  There have also been times when her dad is reading to her and she falls asleep before I get the bottle to him. (This never happens when I'm reading). It never really occured to me that the books could be stimulating.  Lately when we do story time she is apparently tired and is very calm in my lap and listens to the stories (sucking her paci). Then I give her the bottle (tonight she would only take 3 oz) and cuddle for a minute, then put her in the crib and say goodnight.  Immediately she usually starts rolling around, sitting up, standing up and thinking its a game and she is wide awake. If I stay in the room she giggles and smiles at me and if I lay her down and leave the room, she is immediately back up again, at first happy, then she gets stranded and cries. I only go in if she is really crying.
I never know when to stay in the room and when to leave again. She usually stops crying but starts playing again. So I get frustrated and leave and it starts over.  Then when she gets really upset I try to get her to sleep with a hand on her side.  But she kicks and squirms so I get frustrated and leave again.  Finally tonight she cried really hard and I did PU/PD about 10 times and she calmed. Layed on her back and stared at me for 5 minutes and went to sleep.  This whole process was really only 40 minutes but it always feels like forever.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm ready to give up and go back to rocking (don't worry I won't). In the past the baby whisperer methods did work (shshsh pat eventually worked). But then we went back to rocking when she was sick and when we were on vacation (didn't want to wake our relatives). 

We've been doing this for a week.  She goes down for naps pretty good.

I'm not sure if she could have a tummy ache.  If this is the case, then she's had one her whole life.  Nothing has really changed....I mean she has always woken up numerous times at night. But from about 5 months (once she tookt he paci) to 9 months it was usually easy to get her back to sleep.  Maybe thats just because she couldn't sit up or stand up.  I did start giving her yogurt the other day so maybe this could be bothering her but as I mentioned, the recent wake ups are no different than they have always been.  I didn't give her any yogurt today though just in case.
I think I'll post a question under the E as I'm getting worried about my lo and her decreased intake of furmula.
I tried increasing her solid food for two days as we talked about but now she seems to be refusing to eat anymore before we get to the fruit. (she has never done this before with solids).

Well, thanks again.  I'm sure these exact topics are posted on here somewhere....I just don't have the time to read them all right now.
shannon

[teezee]

ok well when lo falls asleep while eating instead of putting her down straight to the crib - walk around and talk to her a bit to get her awake BEFORE laying in the crib kwim?

i think that you could stand to up A time - to 3.5 hrs at least at this point..maybe longer in the afternoon. it is something to play with and adjust slowly here and there and see if it helps the situation at all. it seems that she is not all that tired going into her crib as she seems to want to play - and falling asleep during eating could just be that she is that relaxed.

it sounds like you did a great job tonight with pu/pd!! good for you! be consistant and keep with this and it will get better...at least you got it done in 40 minutes for me it took over two hrs..felt like 2 days!!

my lo is really giving me a hard timea about eating baby food as well...don't feel bad...how about finger foods? does she take to those well? my dd will only have about 3-5 bites of purree before refusing..it's very frusterating but i am learning to feed her what she likes and it makes for a much nicer day...cut up fruit, veggies, meat bits, and grilled cheese...and the all safe cheerios - NEVER turns a nose at those!

i do know milk/formula intake goes down more and more but can't be sure of the exact amounts lo should be getting so do make a post in the E forum and they will be able to help you.

wishing you a wonderful sleep tonight!!

[shannon S]

Thanks again, I hear what you are saying.  Make sure she is awake, ie don't put her in the crib drowsy. I'll try that. 
It seems though that there aren't enough hours in the day to have A at 3.5 hours.
Unless I do it this way:  morning A = 3 hours,   Afternoon A = 3 hours, Before bed A = 3.5 hours.
This is if she naps 1 hour in am and 1.5 in p.m.  But I will try it out and maybe I'll have to make her pm nap one hour too.

I do think I had been letting her nap too long.  It was just such a miracle when she started to nap in her crib and not wake up for two hours!  Plus I fully believe that the reason she cried so much for the first 4-5 months of her life is because she wasn't sleeping enough. I always thought she was hungry and often fed her every two hours (and then i discovered baby whisperer).  I looked back in my journal and  found that at 2-3 months she was barely getting 11 hours of sleep and that was just cat naps here and there.  The minute she started sleeping for long naps, the happier she got and now she is almost an angel baby during the day .... But  Now I've got her sleeping too much in the day!  Everyone probably thinks she is such an angel baby at night too!  NOT!  Last night she woke up 5 times (I didn't have to stay with her though).  I stress so much about my sleep that now I've had insomnia for months!  (thank goodness for sleeping pills from the doc) but that's a whole other story!

As for the solids teezee, my lo really doesn't seem to want to put them in her mouth....just play (fruit pieces, pasta, etc).  She might suck on it for a second but she barely gets any into her tummy.  She is so happy to have them and it keeps her quite content.  She will eat arowroot cookies and cherrios but takes a while.

Anyway, I will see how tonight goes.
Thanks so much for the support!