anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch?

[twins_2005]

Hi everyone,

I'm going to jump in here and ask for your advice on my 15 month old son's lack of sleep these days. Any help would be really appreciated! His normal routine USED TO BE:

wake up 6:30
nap 9 (1 hr)
nap 1 (1 hr)
sleep 6 - 6:30

About 2 months ago, he started staying up until 9 pm. He would act really tired during the day, and so, I tried different things. I tried playing with the timing of his 2 naps. That didn't work. Then I tried transitioning to 1 nap because he had started to skip his afternoon nap at times... and even if he did take 2 naps, he'd hang out for a really long time in his crib before he finally fell asleep. So, now I'm in the middle of the transition to one nap. I'm also transitioning his twin sister, who is actually doing better than he is... even though she could have been on 2 naps for a while longer.

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong with my son's routine. I've pushed out the mid-day nap to the middle of the day (between 11:30 and 12), and I make sure the bedtime is around 4.5 hours after wake-up time. My son sleeps anywhere between 30 mins - 1 hr (MAX) for his nap. UGH!  I've made bedtime ultra-early because he's hardly napping during the day. So, his bedtime is around 4:30 - 5 pm. He responds to his bedtime in one of these ways:
**  Some days, he falls asleep around 5:20 pm and stays asleep until 6 - 6:30 am.
**  Some days, he treats his bedtime like a NAP... and sleeps from 5:30 pm - 6:30 pm, and stays up in his crib until 8:30 - 9 pm!
**  Other days, he doesn't go to sleep at all until 8:30 pm or so. So, his bedtime is 8 hours after he wakes up from his nap.

I'm so confused because he ACTS tired. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. Here's his schedule these days:

wake up 6 - 6:30
nap 11:30 - 12 (lasts 30 mins - 1 hour) 
bedtime 5 (but he doesn't actually sleep until a much later time)

I keep wondering if I should go back to 2 naps... because he's really not getting much sleep on one nap.

Also, I was wondering -- how long should I keep offering my kids the earlier bedtime? Like I said, their nap is not long... and so, I've stuck to the earlier bedtime. So, do I stick to this until they lengthen their naptime? Is there anyway to encourage a longer naptime?

Thanks!!

[lucmom]

Hi everyone,
I just read through all the posts and wanted to thank everyone for sharing their stories.  It really does help knowing that other babies and moms go through this and it's not something we're doing wrong in how we're making the transition.

My questions are similar to twins_2005.  Do any of you who have made it through have advice on how long it takes to iron out the early wakings, back and forth days, etc?  My LO is 13 months old and started moving towards the transition around 11 months.  We held off for month and leapt in shortly after his one month birthday.  He did great the first week, with the nap going from 1 1/2 - 2hours, but then the naps shortened up and he started doing really early wakings.  Up until the transition, he was a 11 hour at night, 2 - 2 1/2hours of naps good sleeper. 

I think we're entering that vicious cycle that some of you have written about.  He's going down for the nap around 11:30 just fine (although a couple times he fell asleep during lunch in his highchair) and fine again at bedtime, but waking before 6 pretty consistently (even at 4:30 twice which has never happened before), which then leads to earlier naptime, which leads to earlier bedtime, and so on.  We tried moving his bedtime back to its usual 7 (from 6:30 during the transition), but I'm not sure it's making a difference.

It's been 3 weeks, and my fear is that he's slowly getting more overtired and creating an early waking habit as I try to figure out the sweet spots for when to put him down.   No matter how long of a nap he takes, I can usually get him to his regular bedtime, but I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do or if I should do earlier bedtime (and naptime) for earlier wakings. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

[bneydgrl]

Oh gosh...we're there too (I didn't think it would come this soon).  Ell was taking 1hr naps at 10 and 2.  Then about 2-3 weeks ago (at just over 10 mo) she would start taking up until 2:30 to fall asleep...then 3, then 3:15.  Yesterday it was 3:20 and she hadn't fallen asleep.  Not upset..just rolling all aournd.  So we go her up and she was melting down so bedtime was at 6.

She starts daycare on Monday and they pretty much do one nap in her room.  I was worried about htem switching her to one nap but I think that she's getting there on her own anyway.

I'm going to keep trying for the two naps this week and see what happends.  I have the feeling unless she's totally freaking out they'll pretty much go cold turkey. 

What do you recommend about when at frist her one nap is short (an hour it looks like most babes do at first) Should we shoot for the regular bedtime or bring it in by half an hour?

Thanks for any advice and I appreciate everyone's experiences...it's a good way to learn from one another.

[mom2william]

Hi Isabella and Jasmine's mum,

Thanks ever so much for your advice on a little AM catnap of 30min. or so.  I think I may go back to this because my DS is still so tired in the AM and is still struggling to make it 'til 11:00am.  He sometimes only will sleep 1 1/2 hours and then makes it 'til only 12:30pm and so has to have an extra early bedtime, too. 

I did let him sleep about 45 min. in the morning a few days ago and he did take a PM nap still, which surprised me!  Seems like he can only have a very short little nap in the AM or WILL NOT take the PM nap at all. 

When you did the 30min. morning nap, did you always have to wake your LO?  I always have to and I hate it because he always sleeps so deeply for his morning nap.  But if he sleeps even an hour, he refuses the PM nap.

Thanks for all your insight!  I hope I see the end of this transition sooner than later

Suzanne
______________
William born 3/23/05

[KellyC]

Hmm, not sure I should be here so soon    Zander is 10.5 months old and until very recently had 15-20 minutes nap in the morning (so can't really limit this much more!) and a 2 hour nap in the afternoon.  His morning nap was at 9.30 then I moved it out to 9.45 when he got difficult to settle and lately it's been at around 10am.  I wake him after 20 minutes to ensure he'll go down with a full tummy after his lunch and sleep for around 2 hours - sometimes a little less but I always wake him after 2 hours.  He has been going to bed at 7pm and his wake-up time varies.  He does sometimes have an early waking between 5am and 6am and I deal with this by giving him half of his morning breastfeed in his room and putting him straight back to bed and he now knows he has to go back to sleep.  There have been days lately when I've had to wake him at 7/7.15am to keep on track with our routine and on the days when he's awake earlier he'll play in his cot until I get him up at 7am.

For the past couple of days I've taken him out for a walk in his pram for the morning nap.  I'll use today as an example; I went out in the pram at around 9.30 and he was very chilled out (I allow the dummy to chill him out in his pram but always remove it just as he's about to go to sleep) and he shut his eyes at 9.55 and seemed to be in the land of nod.  At 10am we got to our destination which woke him up but his eyes literally pinged open and he was a happy little boy so I got him up and enjoyed our morning.  On the way home at around 11.30 he seemed very tired in his pushchair but didn't actually fall asleep.  I rushed through lunch to get him into bed just before 12.30, only he played in his cot until 1pm before he went to sleep!  I woke him at 3.30 (there was 10 minutes in the middle where he was awake as he'd done a poo) so in total today he's had 2 hours 25 minutes sleep which is pretty average.  I thought he might want a slightly later bedtime as he didn't wake until 3.30 (was thinking maybe 7.15) but at that time he was wide awake and perfectly happy so I ended up reading a story and putting him down just before 7.30 - amazingly he played happily in his cot until 7.50 before he went to sleep!

I'm really not sure whether to bite the bullet and forget about the morning nap (which would be very convenient for when he starts nursery next month) or to keep going for the walk so he has the opportunity to rest.  Is he telling me he doesn't want the nap (even if he achieves it!) by taking so long to go down for his afternoon nap and at bedtime?  He's been so happy today, not at all grouchy!  I'm actually hoping that he'll want to sleep in later tomorrow due to the later bedtime (yeah right!) so I'll have the confidence to just shoot for one nap.  I'm worried that if I switch now he'll be more tired once he starts walking (he crawls and cruises super quickly already) and I'll need to re-introduce a morning nap.  He also won't have the opportunity to wake late on nursery days (2 days per week) but I do wonder whether they'll be able to get him down for a morning nap anyway if he's already reluctant.

Any advice much appreciated as always!

Kelly x

[Sabine]

Thought I would also jump in...my lo is 13 months and we are in the midst of transitioning.  It all depends on his wakeup time.  Sometimes he will wake at 6-630 and if this is the case he will have 2 naps totalling 2-3hrs during the day.  Today for instance he woke at 7am gave him breakfast and lunch at 11 and put him down for 1130.  He will cry for a few secs and then fall right asleep...is this normal during the transition?  He fell asleep at 1145 and he is still sleeping and it is almost 215pm .  I guess when these one nap days happen he will have an earlier bedtime..normally he is able to stay up 4hrs from the last nap so he'll be in bed before 730pm this afternoon.  Is it normal for lo's to fuss and cry before you put them down??

Sabine

[*Natasha*]

Just wanted to add that we have just done the transition to 1 nap very successfully so far.
Sabine just wanted to say that yes i find when i put her down for her nap she has a little whinge for a few minutes then she is silent and asleep within 10mins.
Also i am finding the extra hour before her early lunch DD is very grumpy how long does it take for them to get use to the longer awake time?
So quickly to let you all know how the transition went. Our usual routine was wake at 7/7.15am 1st nap 10/10.30am for 1hr sometimes 1.15hr but not recently. Then second nap anywhere between 2 and 3 depends on how long she slept in the morning. She would take up to 30mins to fall asleep then only do 30-45mins. Then it was 7.15/7.30pm bedtime. I was going to do the transition slowly but decided to just try and keep her up that extra 1.5hrs. So she woke at 7.30am the 1st morning breakfast then i gave her a snack and milk in a sippy at 9.30am. Then around 10.30am she started to get grumpy so i had to keep her occupied until 11.30am where i gave her lunch then bed at 12pm. The 1st day she slept 2hrs, day 2 2.20hrs then day 3 just under 2hrs very happy  then a 7am bedtime and wake up between 7/7.30am.

[Sabine]

That's great

Sounds like she is adjusting well. I guess I'll just have to play things by ear here and follow his wakeup times.

Sabine

[Critter]

Hi Ladies,
I don't have time to really sit and read the posts like I should since we're moving in a week and I have a TON of packing to do, but I need to ask if I am doing this correctly.

Luke got to the point where he'd start refusing his morning nap.  He used to sleep 3-4 hours during the day spread over 2 naps.  The morning nap was ususally the longer of the two.  Recently he started refusing to go down for his morning nap, so I moved his afternoon nap to noon and his lunch to 11:30.  He would only sleep for about an hour or an hour and a half and be so tired for the rest of the day until bed at 7. 

Today he did it perfectly!  He slept for about 2.5 hrs.  He started crying about 45 minutes into his nap but went back to sleep.  Do they typically cry for a couple of naps before they really get it down?  Then, tonight, he looked a little sleepy, so I put him down at 6:40 instead of the usual 7 and he was OUT!  .  Is that normal?

We're moving next week and I am praying that his grandparents will help maintain his schedule for me.  They'll be keeping him for 5 days so that we can unpack and get settled. 

[lucmom]

Hi amystoker,
Sounds just perfect!  Both the things you ask about have been the same with mine.  He's slowly starting to push himself to longer naps and sometimes has to work a bit over the hump into the next sleep cycle, and there's a little crying.  He also is very ready to go to bed at the end of the day, and sometimes we have to put him down a little early if the nap has been short or he just needs to catch up a bit.

I was also having trouble with early wakings as well, but those seem to be working their way out after about 3 weeks of transitioning.  We also discovered in the past couple days that all four of his incisors are just about through (they started immediately after the molars came through -- no breaks!), so I think that was a part of it too.  There's a lot changing right now!

Good luck with your move -- the new schedule should help grandparents -- it's been useful for our caregivers since there's less guesswork.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi ladies ! I am knew to this chat, but I think I need to be here My bub is still young yet but he has been doodging his 2nd nap off and on for a few weeks and waking later in the morning. Today I limited his first nap to 45 min and he still wont take his second nap.  I think he trying to get rid of the 2nd nap. I have a few questions about this, maybe you ladies can help me.

1. After limiting his first nap and he finally takes a second one, how long should I let him sleep?
2. Yesterday, he had a morning nap of 1.5hrs and went to bed at 6:30 pm. He ended up waking at 5:30am Do you think he was overitired? Should I have put him to bed earlier? What is the earliest you have put your los to bed? I am just afraid he will wake even earlier.
3. How do I really know it is time to transition?

TIA
ALice

[corrina01]

A couple of questions about the 2 to 1 nap transition, in preparation as my DD currently has 2 naps 1hr 15mins for both, she is quite happy with doing this currently, and I have to wake her both times, to preserve her nightime sleep.

How long does the A times have to be when you switch to 1 nap?

Can I be cheeky and ask what sort of routine should I be on if she wakes between 6am-6.30am, I wake her at 6.30am, if she is still asleep.

[*Natasha*]

Hi Corrina,

We just made the switch so i thought i would share. Before the switch DD was doing:

7/7.30am - Wake
10/10.30am - Sleep 1.15hrs average
2.30/3pm - Sleep 45mins average
7.15/7.30pm - Bed

Now we do:

7.30am - Wake average
11.30am - Lunch
12pm - Sleep 2-2.5hrs
7pm - Bedtime
7.30pm - Sleep

I am hoping over the next few months when the teething settles down and she is use to the longer awake time a little more to have 12pm Lunch and 12.30pm Sleep and 7.30pm Bedtime.
Alot of people find they started sleeping longer once they make the transition to 1 nap.
What does your current routine look like?

Alice i would aim for AM nap at 10am for no longer than an hour and then go for 2/2.30pm PM nap and don't let him go past 3.30/4pm depending on bedtime. I found in the end if DD slept past 3.30pm it would effect her bedtime.

[KellyC]

Just thought I'd update and say we're back with 2 naps for the time being.  For a few days Zander completely refused his morning nap even when we were out in the car so I decided to go for it but he kept falling asleep as soon as we left the house in the car or his pushchair!  So now our routine is something like this;

Wake 6.30/7
Nap 10 (for 20-30 minutes)
Nap 1-3
Bed 7-7.15

It's still a struggle to get him to take the morning nap but I put him down between 9.30 and 9.45 and he usually gets to sleep by around 10.

Kelly x

[corrina01]

Natasha our current routine looks like this

6.00am-6.30am Wake
9.30am or 9.45am Nap for 1.15hrs
10.45am I wake
2.15pm-2.30pm Nap for 1.15hrs
3.30pm-3.45pm I wake if she is not already awake, but I don't let her go past 3.45pm
7pm bed
7.20pm Sleep

This is her general routine but since she has been getting her top molar through she is waking up about 5.30-5.45am but I don't let her go to sleep until at least 9.20am, even though she is fussing to go to bed.