anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch?

[KathrynK]

we always have lunch at least an hour, usually 90 mins before nap- doesn't matter what time she eats, I think it's that when her body relaxes into sleep, that's when she "goes"- when she's playing she's too active to poo, if you kwim!
She's really miserable in her cot when she won't go back to sleep, but that's because she wants up- as soon as I get her up she's fine all afternoon, just looks and is knackered. I know when she's overtired at bedtime, as usually she's all relaxed and sleepy after her bath, but when she's o/t she's all hyper and fidgets and won't sit and have her bottle, still wants to play. It's 5.40pm and I'm running her bath, so have to go!
More advice please ladies! xxxx

[UNCMomma]

Does she go right to sleep when you lay her down?  If so, could you lay her down a little earlier in the hopes that she will play/talk a little and as she winds down, poo then??  I know that's a stretch...

[becky1969]

Kathryn - The poo thing is a pickle! If changing meal times doesn't change poo times, I'm not sure what you can do. I suppose experimenting with 1 nap couldn't hurt - you'll have 1 bad day if it doesn't work, but it sounds like you're already in that place with the 2 short naps.  Owen's 1 nap day yesterday was a total surprise to me. But, I knew he wanted 1 nap b/c he just wouldn't fall asleep for his AM one. I think it might be worth a shot to try 1 nap - we have to try periodically, right? If ti doesn't work, so be it. Then you can work on other poo-related solutions.

OK guys, need your input. We had a great nap yesterday - 2hr15.  Woke at 2:45, which is a great time in order to make it to bedtime. He did have a NW last night at 3:30 (didn't fall asleep until 4:30). I think he was hungry tho, b/c he cried and cried and cried until I finally gave in and fed him (after 40 minutes), and then he willingly let me put him in his crib awake where he chatted himself back to sleep in about 5-10 minutes.  Do you think he was OT at bedtime, and that's why he woke? I put him in his crib at 7:30, he was alseep by 7:45 (with some WI/WO b/c he was crying).  I realized this morning that it was 5 hours A time by the time he went to sleep. I probably should have started bedtime an hour earlier, right?

How long do your LOs need to be awake before bed? When do you typically see them hit the OT mark?

[KathrynK]

I try not to have more than 4 hours from waking to bedtime at the moment, so if she has one nap and wakes at 2pm I have her in bed for 6 (our usual bedtime is about 6.55, asleep by 7pm). However I don't put her to bed earlier than 6 so if we have a disaster day like we have had at daycare, where she has napped from 12.30 to 1.15 and that's it, I still have her in bed at 6. Her usual wake time is around 6.20am and if she has the odd early night she will still sleep till then, but if she has lots of early nights her wake time will start to creep earlier. It's been 6am, 5.50am and 5.40am the last 3 days  I don't want to put her to bed earlier than 6 as this may get even worse! She is generally good at catching up on sleep at night if she's had a bed nap day, and overtired NW are very rare in this house, to be honest.
Owen was probably a bit overtired and this tends to cause you NW, right? Sometimes if we have an early morning waking due to o/t I give Sophie a bottle- even though she usually goes till 7am no problem, it does help soothe her to wind down for some more sleep (I know this AP is probably not recommended!) Maybe that's why he needed it- he was too wound up to go back to sleep and it soothed and calmed him down?
I can't try for 1 nap tomorrow as it's MIL birthday and we are taking her out. So we'll see how that goes. Depending on what happens I think I'll try for 1 nap on Sunday as we have no plans so I can go with the flow. You're right, we have to try every now and then to give them the chance to do it!
xx

[UNCMomma]

My LO has always required a super short A time before bedtime.  Even now, I can NOT push it past 3 hours or she's overtired.  That's the primary reason we can't switch over to 1 nap yet.    2 hours 45 min is our ideal, but 3 hours is as long as I'll go.  

If he woke at 2:45, I probably would have tried bedtime at 6:45 or 7, for your little guy.  HTH!

[debo620]

Becky, the same happened to us the other day, 1nap day that ended at 2:45, I kept him up too long and he was asleep by 7:30 but then NW from 2-3:30am.
we seem to be at 4hrs up btwn nap and bedtime and then he tends to take 20/30min to play and winddown for sleep.

so I'll ask again  , if no bedtime bottle anymore, is there anyone out there doing a snack before bed?? Zoey, I think you and me have similar routines with milk at meals only---do you do a snack before bed. we have about 2hrs btwn supper and bedtime.

[KathrynK]

hey deb
there was a thread recently about snack before bedtime- here's the link:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=88642.0

haven't read it all (although I think I posted!) but it might have some useful info for you
am off to bed now- let's see what the night brings 
bye all xx

[debo620]

Thanks Kathryn, Noah loves banannas--so that might work as a snack before bed.

[Zoey]

Becky if we get a good nap (more than 1.5h) then bedtime is 4h from the wake up.  If we get a bad nap (less then 1.5h) we go to 3-3.5h.  This seems to be a good equation for my Owen.

Deb - I usually do supper about an 60-90m before bed (Im not sure if thats good or bad, but we have since he starting eating and it seems fine  tummy wise) so we don't a snack before bed.  However, I do a snack when he gets up from his PM nap.  That's the only snack we have at the moment, unless we go out food shopping or what not, I always bring a snack.

Today was a two nap day because we went to sit on the Easter Bunny. 

Zoe

[KathrynK]

hi everyone
just wondered how you were all doing.
Becky- I saw your post about Owen getting really upset at sleep time- are you/he ok? How is it going?
I have decided I need to be brave and start pushing Sophie to 1 nap as the quality of her afternoon nap is going downhill at the moment, even if she only has 20 minutes in the morning, plus we are having early wakings again which is always a sign that naps need tweaking. Mind you, until she starts waking at a decent time I'm not going to be able to stretch her to one nap; and there you go, I am back in that vicious circle again. Oh goody. Deb you remember this one well I know!

Of course the incessant pooing isn't  helping! This morning she pooed herself awake at 4.45am and couldn't resettle, so I went in at 5.15, discovered the poo & changed her, put her back down. She slept for 10 minutes then at 5.50 pooed herself awake again- aargh  . So tired mummy and Sophie today. She was at daycare so I asked them to try to ensure she had a morning nap. Which they did. So of course she refused her pm nap which meant that by bedtime she had been awake since 10.30am. Oh for goodness sake.
She is there again tomorrow so am guessing Thursday will have to be a 2 nap day to catch up....... hope you are all hanging on in there
k x

[debo620]

Oh wow Kathryn, the night poops suck. I try not to give fruit at supper time for this reason !!!

I do know what you mean anout that vicous cycle with the early wakes and naps. Its so hard to get them caught up while trying to not let them nap too much that it reinforces the early wake. Still haven't figured that one out and now I just hope he sleeps 11hrs at night--it makes the nexy day so much nicer.

Noah still seems quits happy to have a 30min nap 3hrs after waking--so I really hate when he wakes early and I have to push him out a bit. It wasn't that long ago that he was waking at 5 and not taking his nap til 9:30am (because I wouldn't let him) but now 3hrs in the morning seems plenty.
He is teething bigtime and just started walking last week---so maybe he's a little worn out from that.

Keep me posted Kathryn where you go from here, in terms of the pushing to the 1 nap. I'm hoping by May or June we'll be there, so we can go out and enjoy the summer. right now were still dealing with snow!

[M and N's Mom]

Hey Zoey!  Just wanted to say what a great picture of Owen...haven't seen one for a while!  What a cute little man 

Deborah--congrats on Noah walking...that will be nice for outside once your weather improves.  My DS has been loving walking outside this spring (once he got used to the uneven ground).

Hope everyone is doing alright in 2-1 Nap world.  This sure is a long process (wasn't this long with DD) and we're still a long way from 1 nap here...can't seem to get past the 3.5h A time    Guess we'll be doing the short am nap for a while.

[becky1969]

Hey Kathryn! Glad you called us out!  Ugh. The early morning poo is the worst! And she had 2?? Good lord! It IS a mess to try to get them on 1 nap when they are early waking at the same time. Not sure how you get out of that Catch-22. But, I hope you can. My guess is that slowly, those 1 nap days she'll do better and better, and will gradually sleep later so that more 1 nap days work out. But, I have a feeling we're both in for some rocky days/weeks ahead. Grrrrr.

Thanks for asking about our crying problem. He had a crying fit at bedtime on sunday, and then at 1st nap on monday. But then nap and bedtime after that were normal. Then this morning, he started to arch his back and cry when I was giving him a bottle before AM nap. So, I quickly put him in his crib and he settled down immediately!  I think what happened was on those other occasions he was OT, and so he just wanted me to skip the bottle/ritual stuff and stick him in his crib. NOt sure if that was it, but it sure seems like it. I knew we were pushing it his AM on the nap, so I'm not surprised he protested.

We're going to end up having a 1 nap day too. He got up too late this AM (8:45!! - I would have woken him if I hadn't been blisfully sleeping!) to do 2 naps. He went down for nap at noon, woke at 1:30. I probably should have pushed him to 12:30 or 1 for the nap, but like I said above, I think he was already verging on overtired and crazy. I'm aiming for 6 pm asleep. We'll see if we make it!

[debo620]

well we have had a couple good nights and good nap days, and then a 5:30am (instead of 7am) wake-up this morning.
is it the birds chattering away and waking him/keeping him awake?

how frusrating, we have been doing 30min nap at 10, so today I kept him up til 9:45 and he went straight to sleep, I'll go wake him at 10:15 and lay him down again at 1:15.

Kathryn, I think we are getting into that same vicous cycle as you.
I think, if we have a reasonable wake tommorow:
wake 7
lay him down at 10:00, wake him after 10min of sleep
and then hopefully nap 1pm-3pm.

so my dilemma is 30mins in the am seems to be causing early wake, but even a 20min am nap just brings the 2nd nap forward but doesn't make it any longer. if I was to do a 10min am nap-maybe I would get a 2hr nap starting at 1. and then bed/asleep by 7:30pm.
just pondering....

[KathrynK]

deb- we are having EXACTLY the same dilemma! I've started stretching her first A time to 3.5hrs and waking her after 20 min but it still pushes her pm nap later and that doesn't help with early wakings either- aargh.
I think it's crunch time for the both of us. We need to go for it, you know.

She was at daycare today and slept from 12.50 to 1.50 so another early night on the way.... but the good thing is, although she is tired now she is not overtired and she doesn't get cranky at all during the day there, so she is handling the long A times really well. I am just a big chicken about this and need to be brave and just do it!

deb- let's make a pact and do it together! hee hee