anyone want to chat about the 2-1 nap switch?

[Cassie]

I am so glad I read this thread!!!  Palmer started refusing his afternoon nap which I took as a sign that he was ready for the switch.  However I also have a 4 year old that I have to pick up from school at 1:15pm.  So I can't let Palmer start his nap at noon.  With Duncan I just pushed the morning nap back 15 mins a week until I got it around noon, then eventually he pushed it back to 1ish.  So I have been giving him a catnap.  It is really hard to go wake him up, but if I don't he sleeps 2 plus hours in the morning and refuses an afternoon nap.. then he is a crank by 5pm.

So my plan is to do the 30 min cat nap in the am and then hold him off until 2ish so he can have a long nap at the same time as his brother.  YAY for me!

Hope this works.  I have been doing it for the past couple of days, but P has been really clingly and crabby.  I hope he can adjust.

[GabrielleD]

I just found this thread and wanted to read all the posts before posting, so I wouldn't duplicate a question already answered, but when I saw that there are 65 pages of posts on this thread, I just gave up. So, I am sorry if this has been asked already:

We are currently transitioning DS to one nap. He actually transitioned himself, and usually has his nap around 10:45 or 11 am and the nap usually lasts for about 2 hours. He is fine in the afternoon, and gets a bath around 6:45-7 and bottle and bed after that. Our problem seems to be night wakings. First of all, he wakes about 1 1/2-2 hours after his bedtime and seems to have a very hard time going back to sleep after that. It's almost as though his body thinks that his evening sleep is his second nap. Then, once we finally get him back to sleep for the night, we usually have at least one more night waking. He is not sick and is not teething, so I am assuming that this has to do with the 2-1 nap switch. How long do these night wakings last, and what if anything can we do about it?

Thanks for the help.

[~Angie~]

Question for all of you. My DD is going through the transition to one nap right now. I have been offering a nap at 9:45/10:00 and then again around 2:00. Most days she'll sleep about 30-45 min. in the am and then about 1.5 hrs. in the pm. Some days she won't sleep at the morning nap time and play happily until 12:30. She'll then take a good 2 hour nap and play happily after that until 7:15 (bedtime). I am wondering if I should keep offering the morning nap or just move her to one nap? Will she get confused on her schedule if some days she is getting two naps and some days one?

TIA 

[KellyC]

Angie

I think what you're doing is just perfect as you're giving Abigail the opportunity to sleep if she wants to which will mean you don't get into a cycle of overtiredness.  I would stop offering the morning nap only when she's consistently refusing it.

Kelly x

[~Angie~]

Thanks Stacy and Kelly for answering so quickly.  Just wanted to make sure she wouldn't get confused. I'll keep trying to two naps each day and see what she does. Thanks again!!

[GabrielleD]

Thanks for the help. I'll move his bedtime forward and see what happens.

[elsa and jethro's mum]

OK well I've read as much as i can of the 66 pages but I'm looking for some wisdom here!
My LO is nearly 15 months old: a few months ago we started with the not sleeping in the pm thing, so (interrupted with a few bouts of illness) I've been limiting the am nap. Initially it was to 1 hour, sometimes (if she was really tired) a bit longer, and never past 1130. that way I had her sleeping at 230 for a nice 1.5 hours and then bed at 7, awake 715 ish.
But I should have known it wouldn't last. now I have to limit am nap much more: like under an hour, or she won't sleep in the afternoon. Not only that, but we have had night wakings (never before!) and early mornings (like 6ish) which she just will not go back to sleep despite all the usual tactics. She always wakes crying in the pm and in the morning (ie after the night), I can tell she needs more sleep. On top of that, she is often cranky between her am nap (she is very very difficult to wake at that point now, like she needs to carry on sleeping) when she seems exhausted when I wake her up and takes like an hour to come round, and is then cranky until lunch.

I feel like I've done all the right things: 630 bedtimes (often seems to lead to early ams), limiting morning sleep etc and yet she's getting more tired rather than less tired, and I can never get her to sleep more than 1.5 hours in the pm. in fact it's more often less than that now. I reckon she needs 2-2.5 hours daytime sleep on top of a 12hour night, but she's getting more like 11 hours at night and then 1.75 hours daytime sleep.
what should I try next?
routine often looks like this for the past few days:

6am wake up try and get her back to sleep till
7am up
730 milk
8 breakfast
10 nap (not seeming that tired in terms of cues but goes straight to sleep)
till the early side of 11 ish I wake her up (totally out for the count)
1230 lunch
2ish nap (used to have snack here then 230/3 nap till 4/430 but with all the early mornings and night wakings I've tried moving it back a bit) sometimes needs a bit of a longer wind down here or won't settle
3.10-3.30 ish wakes up crying and crying. the timing's not been predictable enough to try WTS
5.30 dinner
6 bath
630/7 into bed wide awake, goes off like a dream!
then cries in night at least once, usually 930ish (though this one's better since she's not sleeping so late in pm) then 2ish, then 530ish. sometimes settles, sometimes doesn't without a hug/water. often cries like mantra for ages (like over an hour) but if we go in she seems to wake fully and then won't go back to sleep at all. she's never really woken at night since she started sleeping through so this is weird.

I feel like I've done everything these boards say, and I'm running out of ideas as it gets worse not better...
someone out there must have a smart plan for me...
thanks
L

[KellyC]

Hi

I think you have 2 options;

1. Let her sleep as long as she likes in the morning and then offer a catnap in the afternoon to see her through until bedtime without getting overtired.  At the same time you'd want to gradually move the morning nap time on so that she's eventually going down at 12/12.30pm.

2. Shorten her morning nap further so she'll continue to take a long nap in the afternoon.  A nap at 9.30 for 30 minutes followed by another nap at 12.30/1 is probably a good place to start if you go down that route.

Kelly x

[elsa and jethro's mum]

Thank you!
Ive tried the long morning nap thing, to no avail: she just loves her am sleep and will sleep soundly for hours but then no hope later! so I'll try her maybe on a shorter nap this morning. The problem is I feel like that's kinda what I've been doing. but I'll brave it and cut down to 30mins.

Anyone got any ideas whether the fact that she is SO sleepy when I wake her up in the am is relevant? I was wondering if that meant that a) she was basically extending her night sleep then, and so thats why I've been trying to give her that nap later: she'll last till 1030 easily. what do people think?
alternatively I thought maybe b) that she was getting too asleep cos I'm not waking her soon enough (when I guess the limiting it to 30mins might work).

Either way I'd taken it that though she doesn't really seem too tired most mornings she still needs that am nap cos she sleeps SO well! Is this wrong?

We're away at my parents for thanksgiving this weekend but when we're back if I can't get it sorted I'll maybe try just seeing how long she stays up for doing only 1 nap and an early bed... seems a big step for both of us though!!
All complicated by the fact that I'm 32 weeks PG and I need my rests and sleeps! am desperate to get some predictability back before #2 comes along: can't imagine trying to work 2 changing routines at once with a fuzzy post natal head!

Right off I go to get her ready for an early short nap... I hate messing with the routine!

thanks, any other ideas really appreciated still...
L
PS we've gone back into the waking a bit then filling the nappy, then being wide awake thing: can't remember how we broke it last time but it is the worst nap killer: any ideas?

[KellyC]

I would guess that if you're waking her after an hour she's in a deep sleep which is why she's so difficult to rouse.  We kept cutting down the morning nap and were doing 20 minutes before we dropped it all together and there was a stage where I couldn't get Zander to go down early enough and then he started to get difficult to wake.  I think if the refresher catnap in the morning is to work it has to be early enough, definitely no later than 10am.  He would also sleep forever in the morning if I let him but then he'd be overtired by bedtime - he definitely needs the sleep but I have to manage when he takes it!

I know what you mean about wanting to nap too - I'm only 10 weeks pregnant but I'm regularly having an after lunch snooze.  I'm just off to take one now actually!

Kelly x

[elsa and jethro's mum]

update:
I managed to persuade myself to wake her after only half an hour (1020 till 1050) this morning, she was much less sleepy when I woke her, was in a great mood till about 130ish when it became clear it was nap time. we were out so she didn't get to bed till 205 but she's still there now which is 1.5 hours. We haven't managed this much daytime sleep for a while so I'm pleased, feels like it's much better: I know she can do 330 till bedtime, and she was so much pleasenter after a shorter sleep this am... watch this space! we may be on our way to an improvement if not a solution!
L

[elsa and jethro's mum]

Further update (TMI?)
she woke from pm nap at 10 to 4, (1h50 wow!) then bedtime as normal, not a sound out of her till she was talking happily in her cot at about 5 to 7 this morning! I couldn't believe it.
have just put her down for am nap now, she really struggled to go down: after such a late morning there was no way she'd go down before 10, and I have lunch plans till 130/2 so put her down at 10-I think she's just gone to sleep at 1020 again, though not brilliantly. Is this really too late? people are saying 930 but seriously there's no way she would sleep then. but should I plan to do 930ish and if she doesn't sleep just go for a one nap day?
I'll try waking her after half an hour again and hope for the best.

Also: tomorrow I have a 3 1/2 hour drive, she's a rubish car sleeper (she'll usually manage 45minutes if we're on smooth motorways over a naptime) so now I've got this big nap in the middle of the day what should I do? skip the am nap, try for an early lunch and pm nap (like 12-2) and then hit the road with her awake (I'm worried she'll go mad with boredom in the car!) but make it for an early bedtime? I guess I could go in the am with her and then try and get there by naptime... mmm not sure what do people think? glad she's sleeping again (so far) but now I have to rejig my week to fit with new schedule!

[KellyC]

Hi

I'm so pleased it worked well for you!  The problem with doing a late morning nap is that it pushes the afternoon out late and if you want to get around 2 hours from her it could be too close to bedtime.  But if it suits you and she's still happy to go down early enough at bedtime then go for it!  If bedtime / early mornings becomes a problem you could look at shortening the morning nap even further so you can make the afternoon nap earlier.

As for the car journey, we tried to plan a journey around Zander's nap once and he didn't sleep at nap time and was asleep when he'd usually be awake!  Now I'd just go when we want to and let Zander do what he wants.

Kelly x

[lisi's mum]

I wonder if anyone sees this before nap time...

if your lo had been having 1 nap quite happily for the past few days, and had woken at 7.30 am BUT had been awake from 3 until 5 am  would you give them a half hour quickie at 10 to make up on the lost sleep?

I feel like we're beginning to make progress apart from these blips  we now have more 1 nap days than 2, but dd tends to wake at 5.30 most mornings. She's done this her whole life so why should it be any different now? As long as she gets her breakfast bottle at this wee hour she usually will go back to sleep which is a new development, those 5.30 mornings were killing me! Once it's really established I'll start diluting the bottle until it's gone. Anyhow, just wondering what you'd do on days like mine today.

Katie

[shelliz]

Katie....I would defintly offer a catnap this morning for Lisi.  I believe I have heard Kelly said that is good to offer extra nap time for sleep time missed at night. I think that would help keep the overtired cycle from beginning again!  It certainly couldn't hurt!

  Shelby