To extend or not to extend???

[Tida]

There have been other threads on this, but it is still such an issue for me.  My LO is going on 6 mo. (4 mo. gestationally) and we have been doing the 3 hr EASY for close to 1 mo.  In the beginning his naps were usually 1 hr and then I would try to extend with PU/PD (which I have since found is too stimulating for him).  After about 2 weeks and some input here, I decided to let him go and trust that he would extend his naps on his own in time.  Since then his naps have gone down to 30 minutes .  I'd still like to just let it go, but I'm afraid it's going to cause problems.  A lot of the time he's okay.  He's a little grumpy when he first gets up, but then he's fine.  Sometimes he's also pretty grumpy in the evenings, but not always.  Last night it took him an hour to fall asleep.  (He wasn't crying the whole time, but I haven't gotten to the point with him yet where I can just leave him.)  I wondered if it was because he was overtired.  He does well at night, though.  If I knew that trying to extend his naps was what he needed and that it would work for him, I would absolutely commit whatever time necessary and do it.  My fear is that I'll make him miserable for several weeks and be no better off than I am now and that it will end up making him anxious about going to bed at night.
I'm also confused because he can usually be awake for 2 hours, but then he'll only nap for half an hour and be ready to eat after only 3 hours. 
Can anyone give me some advise?  Has anyone had success trying to extend naps under 6 months?
Please share  any thoughts!!!!

[UNCMomma]

I was going to ask if you've tried shortening his awake time, hoping he would take a longer nap...

Amanda

[Tida]

Thanks, Stacy!  I was hoping you'd be out there.  In my heart I know you're right.  I know that 30 minutes just isn't enough.  Reading what some others have written, it just sounds like they've spent weeks and weeks without any progress, and that sounds so miserable.  But I know that he needs to rest enough in order to grow well.  I just need to gather some confidence.  If I'm confident that what I'm doing is going to work in time, I can stick with it and do pretty well.  When I feel uncertain as I do with this, I'm more likely to flounder.  But you're right, I can be confident that 30 minutes isn't enough.  
What I'm thinking of doing is going in at around 30 minutes and putting my hands on him when he stirs to keep him from flailing.  If he gets upset, I'll do shush pat.  I guess if he doesn't settle, I should do shush pat till the next feeding?  I've also been wondering about how long I should continue to do the shush pat with him to help him get to sleep?  I've been trying to gradually do it less, more just if he cries.  Is that a good idea, or how should I start to back off from actively helping him to sleep?  Thanks for your help!

[Tida]

He does seem to like the shush pat.  It really seems to help him.  I had thought he was really doing well, so I had started to cut back on it- only using it when he cried, stopping when he stopped crying.  But it's been taking longer again for him to get to sleep and he's been getting more worked up.   I guess I've been overly concerned with him needing me to get to sleep.  It's really only been a week and a half that we've been doing it this way.  I went back to doing it the whole time tonight and it went much better.  I kept doing it until he fell asleep.  Is that right?
So I know that extending his naps is going to frustrate him.  In the book Tracy says not to think of them as being angry, but boy when he screams he sure does seem it!  I know you've been there with your LO screaming.  I know that he's just frustrated with learning a new way.... REALLY frustrated.  I may wait till next week to start.  I want to be able to be consistent with it and this weekend is going to be a challenge to the routine as it is.  We'll be driving 5 1/2 hours on Saturday and we'll be at a baby shower all afternoon.  Then we'll be at a hotel in a strange environment overnight and drive the same distance home again on Sunday.  I'm nervous about what this will do to the whole routine, but we'll just say a prayer and take it as it comes.  Hopefully he'll breeze through it   Thanks again for all of your help!

[Mom2Katie]

Hi I'm brand new to this forum, and noticed that my situation sounds very similar to yours.  My LO is also about to turn six months (only four gestationally).  She has been on a rough version of E.A.S.Y. for several months.  She has been a great sleeper at night for the past two months (7:30 or 8pm to 6:30 or 7am with no dream feed and very few wake ups), but her naps have gotten increasingly shorter.  After reading Tracey's new book, I have gradually transitioned her to a four-hour schedule, but she will just not nap for more than 30 minutes.  She goes down very easily, but wakes up crying at 30 minutes on the nose.  Like you, I have been tempted to just let her be, but deep down, I know that she's not getting enough sleep.

I am willing to do whatever is necessary for her well-being, but I'm a little nervous that my continued efforts will affect her nighttime sleep patterns.  I was wondering if you have seen any improvements since you have tried to extend your LO's naps?  Any encouragement would be greatly appreciated!!   

[Tida]

Wow, that's amazing!  So everything is OK with your LO?  How long was she in the NICU?  I must say that I am very impressed with all you've accomplished with EASY- congratulations!  We're basically still doing the 3 hour EASY, although it doesn't usually look much like EAS.  We're still doing the dream feed and on average 2 feedings at night and I still have trouble getting my little man to sleep.  I'm feeling a bit like I'm spinning my wheels, but I need to be more balanced.  It only takes one bad day for me to start feeling like I'm doing it all wrong and maybe I should be letting him cry it out... Wow, sorry for the tangent.  I have not yet started trying to extend his naps.  We were going on a long trip this weekend and we're a bit off now and working to just get back on track.  I know I need to brave starting the process but am having trouble working up the courage.  Please keep me posted about how it goes if you start!  Does your LO get grumpy in the evenings?  I am not an expert by any means, but if her short naps are not making her grumpy or affecting her night time sleep, maybe it's okay.  I don't know....  Good luck!

[Mom2Katie]

Tida - My LO was in the NICU for nearly five weeks.  Her main problem was learning to eat.  She was pretty content to just let the feed tube do all the work!  She seems to be catching up just fine, putting on weight, etc.  Was your LO in the NICU as well?  Not a pleasant few weeks, for sure.

Thanks so much for the words of encouragement.  I know what you mean about the one bad day!  I'm always second guessing myself and my efforts.  I know we have been lucky with her night sleep patterns.  It certainly wasn't anything I did--she just dropped her midnight and 3 am feedings on her own and started sleeping through.   As far as her short naps, she is completely erratic.  Sometimes she wakes up crying and grumpy, and has grumpy evenings.  Other days, she seems pretty happy when she wakes up and lasts the evening without too much of a meltdown.  Good luck to you in continuing the EASY routine.  I know it will get better for you.  Let me know how it goes.

Stacy - thank you also for your advice.  It definitely helps!  Quick question - if I'm not extending naps, and she sleeps for only 30-45 minutes, how does that affect the "A" in EASY?  Her current schedule goes something like this:

6:30 am - Wake, E
7 am - A
8:30 am - S (have been trying to get her to sleep until at least 9:30)
10:30 am - E
11 am - A
12:30 pm - S (have been trying to get her to sleep until at least 1:30)
2:30 pm - E
3 pm - A
5ish pm - catnap (usually twenty to forty-five minutes)
6:30 pm - E
7 pm bath, bedtime routine, usually small bottle
7:30 or 8 pm - bed (depending on how tired she seems)

Most days, I have not been able to extend her naps, but she tends to get sleepy and show sleep cues after about 1.5 hours of A time.   So would I just consider the times she gets up early, extended A time?   And if she seems to need it, should I just continue to let her have multiple short naps?  I hope this makes sense.  Please let me know if I'm not explaining well.

Thanks again to both of you!

[The Vern]

Stacy - Sorry to jump in here, but I wonder the same thing as malaneperry about 45 min naps - would it be ok to just have multiple shorter naps of 45 min as opposed to two long and a catnap?  After staying with her grandparents last week her naps are mainly 45 min - she doesn't seem bothered by this - she's happy when she wakes and can usually still make it till the next feed and sleeps quite well at night (8 hrs straight though wakes early). She's 17 weeks by the way. Thanks.

[Mom2Katie]

And with mine, every day is different - today she seems to need the extra sleep.  She took a 30 minute nap earlier, was extremely grumpy, and fell asleep after another 40 minutes.  She slept an hour and a half for her second nap (after some intervention at 30 minutes) and still seems grumpy.  Yesterday, though, she never slept more than 30 minutes and seemed very happy.  Guess they just have off days sometimes?

[The Vern]

She does not eat at night any longer and goes from 7 to 7 without eating. She has no hunger signs when she wakes at night, last night just up talking to herself enjoying the company! I'll see how she does in the next couple of days as we get back into her routine more. At least if I have to accept short naps I know it's ok, so long as she's ok - I'd really hate to have to work on extending them. If I'm lucky she'll get back to her usual routine in a few days.

[Tida]

It's so helpful to hear all of this! 

Mom2Katie,
Our LO was in the NICU for five weeks to the day.  We've had a rough couple of months, but not with major health issues.  He was VERY fussy for multiple reasons.  How much does your LO weigh now?   I'm feeling concerned about my son's weight and just wondered where your daughter is?  He'll have his well baby check next week, so I'll know for sure then, I was just wondering what your daughter weighs to maybe have an idea.  At his previous visits the pediatrician has always forgotten to look at his growth because he's had so many other little issues.  How's it going for you today?

[Mom2Katie]

Tida,

At her four-month checkup (at the end of March), my LO weighed 12 lbs. (she was born at 4 lbs. 6 oz.).  I haven't done a real weight check since then, but I'm pretty sure she has gained.  At four months, she was still on the small side (in the 10th percentile), but the pediatrician said by the time she's six months, she will have likely caught up.  Since she is eating well, I haven't been quite as concerned.  It was a huge issue for me at first since she was so small at birth.   I hope your son's well baby check goes well.  But I hate having to watch those immunizations!

As of today, the naps are still a challenge!   She woke up after a forty-minute nap this morning, was unbelievably cranky for half and hour, and then conked out again.  So she obviously needed more sleep, right?  I got her to take an hour and a half nap this afternoon, but I had to basically stand over her crib for much of that time.  My back is killing me.  She is still sleeping really well at night, though.  Thank goodness for that.  I guess I will just continue to try the schedule, and depending on her "sleep cues" base the length of her naps on those.  How are things going for you?  Have you had any luck getting back on track after your trip?

[Tida]

I hear you about your back   That's how evenings have been for me.  You're doing a great job, though!  Kudos to you for braving the challenge!  Things are getting better for us as the week goes on.  It's the worst at bedtime.  Last night it only took half an hour, though, so hopefully it'll keep getting better!
Our last visit at the pediatrician was almost a month and a half ago.  Jonathan was 10 lb. 6 oz.  He was 3 lb. 8 oz. at birth.  He's 6 months old now.  It's something that definitely concerns me.  He was zinc deficient, though, and they didn't figure it out until about a month and a half ago, and I've read that that can affect growth.  It seems like he's gone through multiple growth spurts since they started him on the zinc supplement.  I don't know how often it's possible for them to have those, but it seems like he's had several close together.  That's another reason I'm a little hesitant to mess with his naps too much right now. I'm afraid he'll wake up hungry and I'll miss the cues trying to get him back to sleep.  I think I'll eventually have to let go of that fear, though, and just do it. 
Thanks for sharing about your daughter.  It's so nice to have someone whose experience has been so similar!  When is her next Dr. visit?  Jonathan's is next Tuesday, so we'll see what they say...
Sending up a prayer for you as you work on the naps!

[Mom2Katie]

Thanks for the kudos!  It means a lot, particularly after several days of back-breaking effort...  The nap challenges continue, and some days I'm ready to just give up and let her sleep when she wants.   I know what you mean about being afraid your LO will wake up hungry.  Katie only takes a bottle four times a day now (8 oz. at a time), and she is still sleeping ten or eleven hours at night.  I keep expecting her to wake up hungry, and I won't realize that's the problem. 

I hope your son's doctor visit goes well and that he's gaining steadily.  My daughter's next doctor visit is week after next.  I'm hoping that she's finally caught up.

Glad to hear that things are getting better for you.  I'm sure it will continue to improve as he gets older.  From reading all the posts about this issue, it seems like sometimes the only cure is time.

[Tida]

stacy,
I don't know if I should start a new thread for this or post it under the general sleep issues....
  Jonathan is doing well going down for his naps (praise God!).  He falls asleep in about 5 minutes.   And it seems that he is beginning to extend on his own!!!  But it's not getting any better at bed time.  On average it takes an hour to get him to sleep.  He's to the point that he won't stay on his side so that I can pat, and he's crying so much I'm sure he can barely hear the shush.  So he ends up spending most of his time on his back crying while I try to shush and every once in a while try to put him on his side to pat.  It's so frustrating. I just don't feel like we're making any progress.  I feel like we're still going to be doing this when he's two.  Am I expecting too much?  Should I be doing something different?  Sometimes I feel like maybe my presence is too stimulating, but at the same time I can't imagine how worked up he'd get if I wasn't there, it that makes any sense.  If I should post this under general sleep issues, just let me know. 
Thanks again!