HELP - Dream Feeds, how do I do it and how much?

[shanaz]

Hi all

Any help will be gratefully recieved.  We're trying to implement the DF (our DD is 3 weeks old) and have been doing so for about a week now.  I have only been able to get her to take a max of 1.5 fl oz once and 1 fl oz on one other occassion.  No matter what I do I cannot get her to suck.  Any tips?  ALso, how much should I be hoping for her to finally be having?  How long should I continue to keep trying this?

Also, I struggle getting a full feed into her for the 2nd cluster feed at 8pm.  Could I extend the gap to 2.5 hrs?

Thanks

[Lªuren]

Hi Shanaz

Not sure if you have seen the dramfeed FAQ thread - https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=54662.0 - this is taken from the 2nd BW book.

When you're ready to start the feed stroke the cheek nearest to you - that should stimulate the rooting reflex and make her open her mouth. Pop the bottle in and she should start sucking. If she stops then there are a few things you can try to get her to strike up again - either stroke the palm of her hand, twist the bottle around, or gently shift her position a bit. She shouldn't need winding unless she's a particularly windy baby (they tend to take in much less air because they're so relaxed). If you do think you need to wind her do it in the on the shoulder position and rub rather than pat.

Sometimes it can take up to a week to implement...if you can't get him to take it within 5-10 minutes I would put him back down right away.  If you find after about a week of trying, that it's just not working I would then concentrate on the clusterfeeding instead.  The dreamfeed sometimes takes a few days to get established, I'd recommend that if its not working, you drop it for a week or 2, and then try it again.

As far as the clusterfeed & dreamfeeds go, offer as much as he'll take.  There is no "set" amount of how much it should be, it's simply to "tank" him up, simply because you want the majority of his calories during the day and you'll eventually want to cut the dreamfeed out. The amount for a dream feed can vary from the amount they take in the day and can often be hit and miss. All babies are different, and dependant on your LO’s age, night wakings aren’t uncommon.   

Do you want to post your routine and we can have a look at where to CF, what time are you putting your DD to bed? Ideally you should try for a 7am - 7pm day 

HTH's

[shanaz]

Hi Calum's mum

Everyday is a little different but yesterday my day went:

E 6am (self woke, couldn't get her back to sleep)
A 6.30 - 7.20 - 4 fl oz formula (F)
S 7.20 - 9.45
E 10am - 5 fl oz breastmilk (BM)
A 10.30 - 11.05am
S 11.50 - 1pm (took 45 mins to settle)
E 1pm - 4 f; oz BM
A 1.35 - 1.45
S 1.45 - 4pm (very on & off, perhaps a total of 1 hr sleep)
E 4.10pm - 4 fl oz BM
A 4.50 - 5.20pm
S 5.25 - 6.05pm (slept in pushchair on trip to supermarket)
E 6.05pm (Cluster 1) 3.5 fl oz F
A 6.30 - 7.25 (includes bath & massage 7pm - 7.25)
S NOT SURE ABOUT DOING THE NAP HERE AS IT TOOK ME TILL 7.50 TO SETTLE HER AND THEN SHE WAS UP 10 MINS LATER FOR NEXT FEED)
E 8.10pm cluster 2 - 3 fl oz F
S 8.40pm - 1.30am - tried to do DF at 11pm, tried for 10 mins but nothing taken
E 1.35 - 2.30am (incl nappy change - v dirty nappy!) - max 2.5 fl oz F
S 2.30 - 6.45am (woke twice but able to get her back to sleep)

As you can see she's quite sporadic and her nap times are not always straight through, lots of waking.  She has only started waking at 1.30am 2 nights ago, before she slept from about 8.30pm til approx 3.30 - 4am.  I don't know whether the fact that she's on both breastmilk & formula would have an effect on her sleeping - I was unable to breastfeed but she's been getting my expressed milk during the day and then formula at night.  I'm starting to phase out the expressing now as I'm so exhausted I can't keep it up. Also my hubby goes back to work next week and I just won't have the time to do both all the time.

Hope this all makes sense!

Shanaz

[Lªuren]

Shanaz

I have taken this from a reply I have just given someone on the EASy board, as I think most of it relates to your current situation as well 


1 in every 3hr period you are looking for a nap from her, you 3hr cycle may look like this;
     E 7am
     A 7.30am (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 8.30 - 1.5hr  Undecided if shorter and you haven't been able to extend then you would do EASA

    E 10am
     A 10.30am (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 11.30 - 1.5hr  Undecided if shorter and you haven't been able to extend then you would do EASA

    E 1300
     A 1330 (inc. a 10 - 10min at the end of this 'A' time for wind down for her nap)*
     S 1430 - 1.5hr  Undecided if shorter and you haven't been able to extend then you would do EASA

    E 1600
     A 1630
     S 1730 - catnap only  30 - 45mins

    E 1900 & bath or vice versa    or    E 1800   &    2000  with bath in the middle (clusterfeeding)
     S 1930                                       S 2030

    DF between 10 -11 https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=54662.0 can take up to a week to take effect.

Your LO will start to sleep longer at night if she is developmentally ready to do so, however giving her the bulk of her milk intake in the core day hours (7am to bedtime + DF) will go a long way to helping this   

Newborns need to eat every 2-3 hours around the clock.  the idea behind a df is to help get the calories into them without waking them so they learn how to sleep longer.  usually it's given between 10-11pm.  it can take up to 2 weeks before you really get the hang of it & start to see the effects from it.  it does not work for every baby (i.e. neither of mine!    ) but there are lots of moms here who have been quite successful with it.   https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=54662.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=39164.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=39769.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=451.0


I usually try and build in a nap on ther journey to where ever I am going and try and time it to make his 'A' time occur when I am out and about, it is easier now he is older.  Here are some previous posts https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=57592.0


* I would put Calum in his cot 15 -20 min before the 2hour mark to wind him down for sleeping. You could also just try sitting with your LO, have you read about the 4 S’s in Tracy’s books. If you miss her sleep window and he becomes overtired she will cry out of frustration, to avoid this I always follow the same wind-down routine, 4 S's
Set the stage - prepare you LO room for sleep; remove stimulation, darken room, lullaby....
Swaddle - (I used to swaddle now I use a gro'bag with his arms swaddled)
Sitting - Quietly without any stimulation, and when necessary..
Shush-pat

Is there anyway you can start the 4 S's 15 -20min before a nap? As part of your 'A' time

HTH's
Any questions just give me a shout.

lauren

[Lªuren]

A 6.30 - 7.25 (includes bath & massage 7pm - 7.25)
S NOT SURE ABOUT DOING THE NAP HERE AS IT TOOK ME TILL 7.50 TO SETTLE HER AND THEN SHE WAS UP 10 MINS LATER FOR NEXT FEED)
E 8.10pm cluster 2 - 3 fl oz F
S 8.40pm - 1.30am - tried to do DF at 11pm, tried for 10 mins but nothing taken
E 1.35 - 2.30am (incl nappy change - v dirty nappy!) - max 2.5 fl oz F
S 2.30 - 6.45am (woke twice but able to get her back to sleep)

Shanaz
There is no 'S' time here,  this is bedtime
I have attached the typical 3hr EASY routine from the 1st BW book, this is showing CF at 6 and 8pm.

HTH's

[shanaz]

Hi Lauren

Thanks for your replies.  It is all basically what I've been doing but she's doesn't seem to be too keen on waking up for feeds, especially around the 8pm cluster feed if she's dropped off after the bath etc.  I can then only get a very little amount of formula into her and I think this is resulting in her waking at 1.30am the last few nights.  If you're saying that the catnap at 7.30pm isn't S time but the beginning of bedtime I really struggle with waking her and have often barely got her to sleep when I'm meant to wake her up again. I've tried keeping her awake tonight and my hubby is struggling with getting her to feed (currently only taken 2 fl oz at 8.20pm). 

At the moment I don't feel like the EASY routine is going to work for us fully as she seems to be getting worse in terms of sleeping and this is impacting on her feeding - she's taking less.  Today she didn't nap in the morning (11am nap) and then slept for 2.5 hrs and we struggled to keep her awake during the afternoon during feeds, having to wake her in the 1st place.  It seems to act of feeding makes her even more sleepy.

By the way, what does HTH mean?!

Shanaz

[Lªuren]

Have you tried just dropping the DF, not all LO's take to it - I personally never did it.
You can always just do, this instead  the dreamfeed and clusterfeeding are only suggestions on how to 'tank-up' your LO.
 E 7am
 E 10am
 E 1300
 E 1600
 E 1900
 S


At 3weeks old Calum was waking for night feeds at 11pm/2am/ 5am - then I woke him at 7am, this was without a dreamfeed.

If you are struggling to wake her from her 1st nap she more than likely needs more sleep at night, and an earlier bedtime. Look to try and achieve a 12hr day.
Feeding makes LO's relaxed, that probably why she is sleepy, try and strip her down a bit to her vest.
What was her routine like before you started EASY, can you post that?

HTH - hope this helps 

[shanaz]

Hi

I shall try what you suggested tonight although her timings are a bit out as she woke at 1.30am and then 5am meaning she wasn't back to sleep until about 5.45/6am and then both she and I slept in til nearly 8am. I'll work the 12 hr day til 8pm tonight.  Should I do the bath as usual at about an hour before bedtime then feed her directly before putting her down for the night?

We started this routine more or less straight away so I have nothing concrete in my head of what was happening beforehand.  She was sleeping through from about 8.30pm - 4am though until about 3 days ago.
Also, not sure about whether to change her nappy at night.  She has had v dirty nappies most nights and we've changed them but this usually just wakes her up even more.  Any suggestions?  I put lots of nappy cream on but I don't like the idea of her lying in a dirty nappy for 12 hrs.

many thanks