help, tired father facing divorce unless we get some sleep

[johnc]

hello,

i am new to this site, but watch the programmes regularly on TV.

i have read allot of other messages, and while it's reassuring to know we are not the only parents who are sleep deprived, i feel i would welcome some help.

i am still unsure with some of the terminology used that i have read, i.e 'pacci' 'easy' but i will endeavour to stay true to what is required.

my wife and i, have got to the point of basically arguing with every free moment we have together , i believe due to sheer exhaustion.

our son, jack, 6.5 months old has never slept through the night yet, and its taking its toll.

basic routine

wake - 6.00 - 6.30
breastfeed 5 Min's
washed, n play at 7.00
breakfast -8.00 til  8.30 either baby porridge or baby cereal.
nap 9.30 - usually half an hour to forty five Min's.
lunch 12.00 - 12.30 - savoury & sweet (usually pureed veg and two fromaige frais yogurt's)
activity
nap 1.30 usually half an hour to forty five Min's.
bottle between 2.00-3.00 ( usually 5 oz)
tea 4.oo-5.00 savoury & sweet (usually pureed veg and two fromaige frais yogurt's)
bath 6.30
bottle 7 ( usually 7-9 oz) in own bed, in own room.

sleeps pretty soundly till 2, then up at 3 screaming, taking usually half an hour to one hour to rock to sleep, wakes at 4.30, again struggles to sleep, last night took two hours to get him to sleep then up at 6 or 6.30 depending on how long it took to go down.

until last month he was purely breast fed.

please someone help before i loose the family i so desperately wanted.

[RAYJULES]

Hi there,
I don't really feel qualified enough to give you advice on why your little one is waking and staying awake for so long, but I just want to be an encouragement to you. My husband and I are going through sleep deprivation at the moment due to teething pain so I am so with you on the toll it takes on your relationship. It always seems easier to take it out on those you love the most.
Try to focus on getting to the bottom of the problem together and supporting eachother through this. Share your frustrations and most importantly underline the fact that you love her and the family you have together.
I'll be praying for you. Keep your chin up, and I hope one of the moderators who are more experienced get to you soon.

[johnc]

thanks for the response, although i don't wish it on anyone else, it is reassuring to know we are not some terrible parents who have done everything wrong.

if i may ask you  a question on the teething, he seems to have every classic sign, drooling, putting everything in his mouth, rosy cheeks. but he has been like this for weeks now, with no sign of any teeth.

how about you, is it a prolonged period???

[RAYJULES]

I hate to tell you, sometimes it is so prolonged you want to pull your hair out! A friend of mine has a little boy who is 6 weeks older than my little girl and he "teethed" (all the classic signs) for about 6 months before he got a tooth! Obviously not day in day out for six months, but it took six months for the tooth to actually come through. I find with Ashleigh that the time before the tooth actually comes through is more painful than anything for her - when the tooth is moving in her gum so to speak. Take heart, every child's teething programme is different - mine had 8 teeth when she turned one and my friends little boy had 2!! She probably went through as much teething gel and paracetamol as me though just in treating the symptoms and his pain.
As someone who has had all 4 wisdom teeth grow in my adulthood, I know how sore it is when a tooth comes through - helps you get a little perspective on what they are going through

[yaya]

hi john! im sorry u r having such a rough time of it...trust me been there! the mods will b able to give u great advice but just wanted to offer support!

[RAYJULES]

Also don't ever think you are being terrible parents. You obviously care deeply about your family and are trying hard to find a solution - you're doing a great job, it's just a really hard stage now, but it will get easier you just have to leap this hurdle first!! Be encouraged.

[LucyA]

Hi John, just wondering whether your lo could be hungry? Does he go from 7pm to 6am without a feed? It sounds like he can transition between sleep cycles at night ok.
by the way, paci is a dummy/pacifier, easy stans for eat, activity, sleep, you. It's the order in which things ideally happen. 

[SophieB]

John -

I'm no baby sleep expert, so I'll just raise a possible issue while we wait for a mod to come and offer some better advice: it would seem to me that 2 x 30/45 minute naps a day aren't enough for baby the age of your LO.

Overtiredness is a pretty common factor in nightwaking, so fixing the daytime naps may well help with the waking.

Now, as to how you fix the daytime naps - that's a whole other challenge.  There are various strategies, including pick up/put down, wake to sleep and walk in/walk out - any of which may work.

May I suggest you cruise the boards looking for some tips on those things, as a starting point?

Sorry I can't be of more help - but big round of applause to you for being an involved daddy who's trying to get everything straightened out for you, your LO and your DW.

Best of luck.

Soph

[Lan]

I agree with Sophie, I think he is not getting enough daytime sleep, so he's overtired when he goes to bed, crashes and sleeps deeply for a few hours. Then he has trouble cycling between light and deep sleep.

I think he is staying awake for too long before a nap. Also, if he is only having short naps he might need 3 naps before bed.  I would keep him up for about 2.5 - 3 hours at a stretch - say 3 hours at the first awake time, then 2.5 hours the other awake times if he only has a short nap.

Does he get fed at night when he wakes? Some people try a 'dreamfeed'  - at around 10.30-11 pm, put a bottle into his mouth without waking him and he sucks it down while still asleep (or half asleep). Then you could feel confident when he wakes later in the night that it's not from hunger so you can cut out those later feeds.

So your routine might look something like this:
6.30 wake, food
9.30 nap  - 45 mins
10:15 awake, bottle
11.30 -12 pm lunch
12.45 sleep 45 mins
1.30 wake, bottle
4pm sleep 45 mins
4.45pm wake, dinner,bath, milk
7pm sleep
11pm dreamfeed


One thing my husband and I had t odo to get some sleep - we took it in turns to get up. So one night I would get up and he would sleep in the other room with the fan on so he didn't hear anything. Then the next night we would swap.

Edited to add: Oh, one more thing, extending naps can be very stressful, so if it were me I'd be content with 3 short naps and try to fix the night wakings first until you both get more sleep. THen later when you're feeling a bit more normal you could tackle extending the naps.

[First Time Mom]

Sorry to hear you're going through this but be comforted in knowing so many of us have/are as well. I applaud you from coming to the BW boards to seek solutions.

I agree with the naps and routine posted but wanted to mention (if the wakes and crying has gone on since the beginning) that if naps and added feed/routine don't improve the night wakes with screaming to possibly look into milk alergy. My dd wouldn't sleep until 4:30am every night for her first month, she just cried, screamed, passed out for a short time, then cried and screamed all over again, turns out she has a milk alergy- once I eliminated milk product from my diet and eliminated the odd formula bottle we were giving (we thought her wakes were from extra hunger) she went from being awake for most of the night to only 2 night wakes at 6 weeks.

Let us know what changes you try and if any help, also if it doesn't help- like the others mentioned- post on the different boards, you'll get a wealth of information and support from the BW group!

[johnc]

i would like to thank you all for your advice and words of encouragement. i logged on and showed my wife this morning before leaving for work, and surprisingly she was somewhat overwhelmed, i think she thought she wasn't succeeding at motherhood, and subsequently i was taking the brunt of the dissapointment. but thanks to your words she maybe realised we are not the only ones going through this.

before logging on to this site most people we spoke to said things like " oh our little one slept right through from 3 months" or "they never wake now during the night" and i think she felt like we where failing in  some ways.


so thank you all again, i will try some of the advice given (actually the wife will while i am at work).

[SophieB]

before logging on to this site most people we spoke to said things like " oh our little one slept right through from 3 months" or "they never wake now during the night" and i think she felt like we where failing in  some ways.

Tell her they are probably not being entirely truthful with her.  It's part of the great motherhood conspiracy - luckily (for me, at least) that conspiracy doesn't exist on these boards.

Best of luck.

[squeaky's mum]

Hi John,

I would just like to add my support to everyone else's comments.

We have had significant sleep issues with Sophie (I am stubbornly calling them issues, rather than problems!) ever since she was 5 months old. At times it has really affected our relationship, but as time has gone on we have found ways to help each other out and made a rule that we are no longer allowed to vie for the position of most lacking in sleep! We are starting to accept that Sophie is not a great sleeper but as time is going on we are slowly making progress.

I have been so cross with friends who imply that a baby that sleeps is a 'good' baby and a baby that doesn't is 'bad'. One of my friends even said that how a baby sleeps is a direct reflection of how chilled out the parents are. I don't believe that for a second, its all about their individual little characters. There are a lot of people out there who had 1 or 2 good sleepers, but found it a shock when the next one didn't sleep well.

As far as my relationship with dh has gone, in time we have got stronger and stronger as we have dealt with this. Now Graham gives me time out of the house on my own and he does a sport that he enjoys. We tend not to 'deal' with Sophie together at night, but When I have enough or am exceptionally tired he takes over until I have gained some sleep back.

I have never had the courage to do pupd (although I think we may be about to) but have found Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution really supportive and help me get the whole sleep issue into perspective.

Good luck, progress will probably be slow but it will come.

Claire

[johnc]

thanks Claire,

i must add that we had a similar comment from someone the Dw speaks too, and i disagree with this like you .

during the day he is relaxed, happy, even hilarious (as i expect all parents think there kids are), but he has difficulty getting to sleep on his own thats all.

the dw mother has even commented on how placid and content he is during the day.

but thanks for the encouragement

john

ps i had to chuckle at the comment on who is the most tired, we are still competing on that task.

[LucyA]

Hi John, just for some more reassurance that you guys are not alone, have a look at this thread:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=55035.30
My ds is nearly 8 months and has just in the last couple of weeks gone to one night feed, and still wakes 2 or 3 other times through the night. I find he's pretty easy to resettle unless he's hungry. Although until I did pu/pd to teach him to go to sleep more independently that wasn't the case.
Let us know if you have any more specific questions.