help, tired father facing divorce unless we get some sleep

[Katet]

John, I used to moderate on this forum but don't any more, but still offer my spoke... I'd say you have a VERY chronically overtired baby there... they often sleep well for about 6-8 hours & then don't settle well again & are usually 30/45min nappers

on average a 6month old should be getting about 14 hours sleep in 24 hours & the maximum awake time I always recommended for a 6month old is 2.5 hours, ideally you want your lo to sleep 1.5 -2  hours  in 2 naps & possibly would still need a 3rd 30 min nap... both my ds's didn't drop the 3rd nap until about 8months old.

Given the nature of your lo's overtiredness, I'd really try to start winding him down for a nap after about 2 hours

So looking at your routine, what I would suggest is
nap at 8.30am (therefore bring breakfast earlier)
try to extend this nap until 10am
milk feed on waking
lunch at about 11am,
nap 12.30 or earlier (noon) if a short nap in the am (hope sleeps until 2pm)
milk feed on waking
4.30pm 30min cat nap
dinner on waking
7pm milk & bed

The nap bit is going to be where you could come unstuck & I would strongly advise that if he doesn't nap well bring the times forward & bed say 6/6.30pm

Once he starts sleeping better then you would move to 2 naps & 3 hours awake, but until he gets better nights I'd try to get him sleeping earlier, you need to deal with the sleep deficit he has (guessing he is getting about 11-12 hours sleep a day when he should get 14) before the wakings will sort themselves out... I had horrid insomnia with ds#1 (who didn't sleep well due to a medical issue) & the more tired I got the harder I found it to sleep, which is a normal thing.

Best of luck, it isn't easy, but it can be done

PS, I'd offer a feed if he takes more than 5mins to settle in the evening, feeds can be fixed later

[johnc]

thanks Kate,

i will inform the wife when i get home and show her the responses i have got.

it's strange that the advice we have been given, generally of random people telling us what to do, most said

"keep him up during the day, then he sleep coz' he's shattered"

whilst we ignored this advice, it was getting to a point where we would try anything, thankfully we never.

thanks again.

ps. LCm how did you find the pick up put down routine to implament?

[LucyA]

Hi John,
It wasn't as bad as we thought it might be! Have you done the 'know your baby quiz'? I think it's at the top of the easy board. According to that, our ds is angel/textbook, which means he adapts pretty easily to anything we do. Before we did pu/pd, he had never napped in his cot - always in a baby bjorn or on my chest! We did it at about 4 months. The first nap took about 25 minutes to get him to sleep, and by the third day he went down for naps in the cot without any crying. If your baby is touchy or spirited, it can be harder. There's lots of stuff on the pu/pd board.
Hope that helps.

[olleezmom]

John,
Kudos to you for being such an involved daddy!  I am lucky enough to be married to a man just as equally involved and supportive.  As a mom of a former non napper, and now early waker, let me first wish you luck and support.  I found the BW when DS was around 4 months.  I did PU?PD to extend his naps, and it worked immediately!!!  Now, since he has gotten older, and delt with several milestones...4 teeth in 4 weeks etc. I am tweaking his schedule again!  I never thought I would be wakin my baby from his naps, but I am!!!  Please don't give up on your baby or your marriage!  Without one, there would be no other!  Babies are the greatest gift, and since they don't come with an instruction manual,( at least mine has not popped out yet!) we have to keep playing guessing games to help them get what they need!  Keep the faith!

[Katet]

John it is a common misperception that a baby who has been awake a lot will sleep better... a tired baby will sleep well, an overtired one will sleep badly...the key is to understand when your lo is tired, but not over tired.

Can I suggest that this weekend you & your dw, get some takeaway food, & have an early night & just enjoy each other... that is what my dh & I do when ever the joy of parenthood feels like anything but... Yep our house is often a mess

[johnc]

thanks for the support folks, its much appreciated.

but first things first, we tried all the advice at the weekend and two things happened:

1. we put jack down to nap on saturday morning around 9.30 and suprisingly with no fuss he slept soundly for two hours. we tried a gain as suggested at 2.30 and we got 1 1/5 hours with no fuss, so all going well.

the same happened on sunday with the nap routine, taking two hours each time with no fuss

2. then saturday night, we had the worst night ever, he woke at 9, 10, 11, 12 (for two hours), 3, 4, 6

and as for last night, he woke at 9, 10, 11, 12, 2 ( gave up and brought him in the big bed).

any advice please!!!!!!

[squeaky's mum]

Hi John,

Well done on the naps but don't lose heart with the night times. Once a baby is very over tired it can take a long time for the sleep bank to get full again. With Sophie, it can take us 2-3 weeks to recover from a bad week. You are making progress. I suggest you keep a sleep diary of when ds wakes, for how long and what you do (if you're not doing this already). Stick with your chosen strategy for getting Jack to sleep more then every week look back at your sleep diary and your progress (which may be small to start with) will become evident.

I think that keep working on the naps. Get them into a good routine so Jack knows when he is going to sleep in the day and this will go a long way to helping him overcome his tiredness. In time the nights will start to settle too.

Remember you are asking him to do something different to what he is used to, depending on his character it will take him a while to get used to his new routine.

Do stick with it, you are both doing a geat job.

Claire

[Khyan & Sahria's mum]

Hugs to you and your family

I have no advice when it comes to sleeping but I would like to mention that when Khyan is sleeping like you are describing at night I find that eventually (usually 2 - 3 nights later) he will show symptoms of some sort of illness. I really hope that this isn't the case but in my experience with our LO it almost always is or sometimes it can be teething and then I find a couple of days later I find a new tooth.

The only advice that I can give is to keep being as consistent as possible and maybe even try alittle pain relief if your LO is showing any other signs of teething.

I'm sorry that you are having such a rough time

Big hugs
xx

[LucyA]

Glad to hear the naps are improved! What are you doing at night to settle him when he wakes?

[johnc]

hi Lucy,

regarding the night routine, it depends on what state he gets into.

he generally falls asleep on last bottle at 7, and goes to bed in cot asleep, apparently from what I've read this is part of the problem, but if we wake him he will not take the finall bottle.

between 7 -9 usually patting bum and shushing will work, between 9 - 11 usually patting bum and shushing will work, with occasional need to pick up and calm before putting down.

between 11- 5am he gets really wound up, and generally cant be consold unless picked up and rocked back to sleep, sometimes taking two hours.

we haven't tried the Pu/pd as he will not entertain sleeping unless on me or mum.

i bet you are all shaking your heads at me now, tut tutting............

[LucyA]

John, are you sure he's not hungry when he's waking after 11?

[johnc]

thanks for the concern Lucy, and to be honest i really don't know......

but i thought he should be going without a feed through the night by now.

he's 6months 3 and a half weeks, so nearly 7 months really.

did you still give a late feed at this age???

[Katet]

Actually very normal, your lo is now not sleeping from total exhaustion, so actually goes through normal sleep cycles

It does get worse before it gets better, the key now is to make sure he isn't fed to sleep at bed time & that at bedtime he goes to sleep in his cot awake or semi (mostly) awake & then be very consistent as to how you deal with the night wakings

OK just read he falls asleep on that last bottle... until you stop that you are doomed to night wakings as he thinks that is HOW he falls asleep. Until you work out how you want to break that habit (I thinktry & offer it at another time) you can't really deal with ANY OTHER issue

To be honest John at almost 7 months, I'd be offering a feed around 2/3am, rather than 11pm, esp with so many wakings as you want to deal with the wakings & not letting him have another sleep association in the first 6-8 hours (really deep restful sleep).

[johnc]

thanks kate, but can i just summarise as i'm getting all confused here.....

when we have bathed him he is looking for his bottle, and if he falls asleep on it he will take 8-9oz.

do we not give him any, or just let him take whatever he wants until he is getting sleepy and stop, and put to bed?

please advise........

[LucyA]

John, my lo has just this last 2 nights stopped night feeds - he is 8 months on Friday.
What happens if you give him the bottle before the bath?