Awake too much - lots of questions!!!

[Finns mum]

Sorry guys, more questions!
Having taken advice about my problems with the EASY routine, I started the 3 hour EASY today so as not to keep him awake too long after a feed but also not to nap for too long during the day. Trouble is, despite showing signs of tiredness, he took forever to go down for the first nap. By the time he was asleep, he only had about 20 minutes instead of an hour and a half before I had to wake him for his next feed. He went down fairly well afterwards and I kept him asleep slightly longer to make up for earlier, but then he wouldn't go down after his next feed at all - or the next one! He ended up being awake from 3pm until 8.30pm and this isn't unusual for him. I tried to act as soon as I saw he was tired, but no sooner did he seem to be falling asleep in his cot, then he would suddenly wake up - and be really wide awake too! So, my questions:
Should you keep pressing with the routine, even if it means waking him after he's only been asleep a very short while?
What do you do when he takes so long to go down between feeds that he actually doesn't go to sleep at all?!
Should you keep trying to settle your baby when he seems very wide awake and alert, even if he hasn't had much sleep?
How long should you sit in the nursery trying to settle him? I've been in there over an hour and a half before with no luck, despite following all the 4 S advice.
All help and suggestions greatly appreciated!

[HeatherC]

Should you keep pressing with the routine, even if it means waking him after he's only been asleep a very short while?
I would say yes just b/c that is what I believe.  Now, there is no harm in giving him another extra 30 mins, but I wouldn't let him sleep past an entire feeding time.  Tracy says to work on the nap for 40 mins or until the next feeding time, give the feed, and then work on getting the nap again right away or very soon.  Sometimes, however, you both need a break and you shouldn't feel like you have to spend hours in a row working on naps.
What do you do when he takes so long to go down between feeds that he actually doesn't go to sleep at all?!
This would be the same as above.  What methods are you using to help him fall asleep?  Do you have a winddown, swaddle, use white noise?  Remember, after you do the winddown, you put him in his crib.  You don't have do use shh/pat unless he starts to cry hard.  You should give him ample time to settle himself, and only use shh/pat if he is crying an "I need you now" cry.  Fussing and whimpering are more of the "mantra", settling cries than an urgent cry.
Should you keep trying to settle your baby when he seems very wide awake and alert, even if he hasn't had much sleep?
If you know it is time for a nap, but he actually looks wide awake and alert, he may be overtired and running on adrenaline.  Spirited babies tend to look this way the most when tired, and having set naps times can alleviate the confusion usually.  You could put him down and walk out of sight for a few minutes and see what he does.  Also, you should make sure to hide any visual stimulations, making the room as dark as possible, too.
How long should you sit in the nursery trying to settle him?
I think Tracy recommended working on the nap for 40 mins or until the next feeding, which ever comes first, then take a break.  Come out of the nursery, but keep a very low-key environment.  Remember, this is supposed to be naptime, so activity should be extremely limited.  Perhaps keep the lights dim and speak softly.  Or, just sit with him listening to light music.

[Finns mum]

Thanks for the advice. I do the swaddling, sitting etc, although I haven't tried white noise before. I have just now left the radio on white noise in his room, and he did take less time than usual to settle, although he might still decide to wake up again!
What exactly is the 'mantra cry' I keep reading about? If I leave him looking settled in the cot, he usually starts to fuss and whimper, then this tunrs into short cries then this always turns into a loud long cry at which point I'll end up going back. He's never yet cried a little and then stopped. On the rare occasions when I manage to leave him still awake, he goes to sleep quietly.
On the plus side, he slept right through until 6am last night after his dream feed! I'm sure it was a one-off but it was fantastic anyway!

[HeatherC]

Wow, congrats on the good night's sleep.  The mantra cry is the low moan, whimpering a baby will sometimes do while trying to settle.  Think of it as if you are huffing and tossing in bed trying to get comfortable.  Or you lay down and let out a big sigh.  You are right to go to him if he starts to full out cry, and you are right to lay him down and give him a chance to do it on his own at first.  The fact that he will sometimes fall asleep without a fuss means that he is capable of independent sleep, and this means you are on the right track.  Keep at it, and soon he won't need your help anymore.  He's just going through many changes right now and he needs your guidance to get into the flow of things.