Frequent Night Feeds with 12 week Baby

[SarahLS]

My daughter is now 12 weeks old and I have been trying to use the EASY 3-hr approach including cluster feeding  @ 2 hrs in the evenings (5, 7, 9).  She usually goes down about 9PM (we have a 6 yr old son so trying to get her to bed before him has been really tough) - she then wakes again for feeding around 12:30 AM, 3:00 AM, 5AM and 7AM.  During the day I feed her on both breasts, however at night she often falls asleep after one breast & I can't get her to wake up enough to take the other breast - even if I change her diaper she goes right back to sleep & won't suck at all.   

Does anyone have any tips on how to reduce these night feedings or am I too early to hope for this?  She weighs about 12-13lbs right now (she was 4 weeks early & weighed 5lbs 7 oz at birth) so I'm not sure if she's big enough to go for long periods without eating so I'm guessing she's hungry enough to wake, but then taking one breast reduces the hunger enough for her to go back to sleep.  Usually I go to bed the same time as her  to try and get enough sleep, so I haven't tried any DFs later than 9PM - however given that I haven't been successful in getting her to nurse when sleeping I don't know if I would even be able to do this.

Thanks for your help,

[Samuel's mum]

I think at 12 weeks you should definitely expect some night feeds to be normal for a lot of babies. I was feeding around every 3 hours at night I'm fairly sure (didn't write it all down, doh). However still having a 2 hour interval is pretty painful.
She's waking at very regular times - is it always like that? I would experiment with settling her without a feed at 5am and seeing how long she stays asleep for (or get someone else to go to her). Are you familiar with techniques like pat/shush?

You could also try using breast compression at night to improve the 'quality' of the milk she is drinking. Have a look at this:

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html

Note #6 on why to use the method!

Some breastfeeding mummies use a bottle for the df with expressed milk as a sleepy baby will feed more readilly from a bottle.
HTH

[jules_is_cute]

OMG Sarah!!!   I 'm having the same problem with my lo she's 14.5 weeks old.  She'll sleep for 4 hours her first stretch, but then wakes every 2 hours after that.  She hardly seems to want to eat during the day.  I'm certain it's because she assoc. breast w/ sleep,  but I don't know how to break her of it.  Plus it's such a sure fire way to wind her down for naps and bedtime...I'm reluctant to give it up. 

I must admit I have not followed the BW philosophy for everything...sleep especially.  Before I joined this community I tried controlled crying     and it worked, until we went on vacation.     Then the BW philosophy made me insecure about what I had done, and made me worry I had broken our trust bond. 

So I tried her methods, but it confused my lo.   I tried pat/shh and a modified pu/pd appropriate for her age for 2 weeks with my lo and it didn't do anything but make her insanely mad.  She learned very quickly 'I cry, I get picked up...I stop, I get put down...so I won't stop!!'  I was going insane, my girl wasn't napping at all and then a friend recommended the Sleep Sense Program, after 2 nights and 3 days of this she sleeps great and falls asleep on her own no problem.  She cried a lot the first night, I had to be very strict about no pickups, and very little touching.  But I stayed in the room with her, and talked to her and occasionally rubbed her head, for as long as it took for her to fall asleep.  It's really not much different from BW it's just a lot less touching and SSHHing/talking to help soothe your baby.  SSP also says no paci, but come on!!  She LOVES her paci and she's been soothed by sucking since she was a wee little 4 days old...I gave her the paci so I could keep my nipples!!  LOL.   I can't take it away at such a young age.  It doesn't seem right.

Anyway, back to topic....

At night though I think she wakes for both the comfort and the calories.  If I interpreted correctly, I think that BW says to wean them slowly from night feedings by offering fewer and fewer minutes of nursing and then only the paci while being held, then only the paci in bed, then they may not wake at all.  I'm going to try this out and see how it goes.  Because the SSP says to not go in for 10 minutes, and then if they keep crying out to go and feed as they are really hungry.  I can't not respond to her cries so I will use BW for this and see if it works.  But I will be certain to put her down awake, hard at night I know.
 
I'll report back to you to tell you how it goes.  However I expect that since my lo's bedtime is pretty early 6:30 -7 pm I will have at least 1 night feeding.  I don't mind that though. 

Good luck.  Please if you do anything that seems to work let me know on this board or you can e-mail me (patricia.schumann@gmail.com)

~Patty    Sorry I'm so long winded.   

[Erin M]

Hi--
I agree with Samuel's mum that the 3 hour interval might be somewhat typical for a LO as small as yours, especially since she was 4 weeks early.  Have you tried introducing a dream feed at all?  Maybe if you tried that around 10:30-11, she's sleep until after 12:30 before waking for that first night feed - then if she woke for that later, perhaps she could make it morning with just one night feed.  What time does your 6 year old go to bed?  If it makes life easier for your son's bedtime, you could definitely try just two cluster feeds, bringing her bedtime forward just a bit and then doing the dream feed between 10-11.  However, I totally understand if it makes things too difficult for your son.  You can also try pat/shhh in the early morning hours to try to get rid of that two hour interval - those early morning hours are rough, they tend to wake so easily.  Maybe you could try to shoot for 4 hour intervals at night at this point, I think that's where we were at 12 weeks.  However, if she's insisting she's hungry, there's only so long you can delay at this point....

In regards to Patty's reponse, as a mod I just wanted to clarify that you'd be best off with using pat/shhh at this age.  For clarification read the sleep interview that is somewhere on the sleep boards (not exactly sure where).  Also, I'm not familiar with the Sleep Sense Program, but wanted to remind those reading it that BW advocates either pat/shhh or PU/PD (depending on age) for helping your baby sleep.  Please post on the sleep forum if you need some more clarification as the lovely laides over there should be able to help you sort it out. 

[jules_is_cute]

Thanks Erin for clarifying.  Yes, Stacy and Kelly are GREAT if anyone needs help with the sleep issues.  And they do recommend pat/shh for babies this age.  The moderators on the sleep boards are  really wonderful cheerleaders and have great tips.  I wouldn't have made it through those 2 weeks w/out them!!

Anyway, Erin, about when do you think our breastfed lo's will be going at least a full 5 hours at night w/out eating?  Is that totally developmental, or does is it something you can make happen?  I've tried a dreamfeed with Jules and she doesn't even respond to my breast with more than a few weak sucks.  I tried the kellymom tip and did compressions tonight, I report back if it seemed to help her go longer between feeds.

[Erin M]

Hi Patty-
My daughter started stretching herself out to longer intervals between feeds around 3 months, but I've heard of all sorts of people having different experiences with that.  I found that if I felt like it had been a very short amount time since her last feed (2 hours or so) I would try to soothe her back to sleep by other means.  I also would try to note whether or not she was taking a full feed (as in, after 3 hours or so if she was nursing for 2 minutes and then passing out the next time I would try to push her past 3 hours).  I found it to be so much of a guessing game at this point, but I would really just try to get her to take full feeds and slowly push her past her shorter intervals.  She's always been a decent nighttime sleeper though, so I was a bit lucky in that regard. 

[SarahLS]

Thanks for your responses everyone - last night we did a feeding at 10:15 (since she didn't want to eat at 9) and she then woke at 1:15 and 3:30 for feeds.  When she woke at approx 5:30 I didn't go to her, and she put herself back to sleep with very little fussing and slept until 7!  I hope this is a trend and not a fluke, but at least I know it can be done...

[jules_is_cute]

Thanks Erin, Congrats Sarah. My lo also slept longer last night!!! I think the compression worked!!  She was down by 8 pm and didn't wake until 1:30, I gave her the binky and she went back to sleep until 2:30...I had to get ready and leave for work at 5:50 am so I did a dream feed at 5 am so my DH could sleep longer.  She slept till 7 am.  So I don't know if that counts as 2 wake-ups or 3 because I did the last one myself.  Hopefully she skips the 1:30 am wake-up tonight and goes to 2:30 am.
 
Good luck tonight Sarah!!

~patty   

[daisymelan]

Sounds like you're all making out wonderfully!

[Layla]

oops

[naunmom]

I wonder if it's too late for you to try swaddling ... but after watching this video "the happiest baby on the block" ... and swaddling my dd ... she has one long sleep stretch which started around 3 hrs and increased to 5.5 to 6 hrs (8:30ish to 2/2:30ish).  But dd is 11 wks going on 12 wks this Sat and I'm starting to loosen her swaddle.

I have also heard that babies tend to naturally settle into longer sleeps/naps and more predictable routine around 3 months.  Good Luck!

[SarahLS]

A quick update - I tried a DF but DD really doesn't like to eat while sleeping - I got her to suck for a little while but then she pulled off & refused to open her mouth no matter what tricks I tried.  We seem to be settling into a midnight or thereabouts feed plus one in the 2-3 AM range & then usually she can go until about 5:30, so I guess that is all I can hope for at this point.    It is amazing how your body adjusts to this type of sleeping pattern - I can actually function most of the day until about 7:30, when I start to crash 

[jules_is_cute]

my girl doesn't like the DF either....just stays asleep
she's sleeping 6 hours her first stretch too bad I don't go to bed at 7 pm with her.