5 mo old..too many nw

[x95stocchier]

I'm sooo tired!  DS is waking 5-6 times a nite.  Since he's bf, I usually feed if it's been 3 hrs since last feed.  I'm just afraid he's really hungry, and w/bf how do you know?  He usually eats well when I feed, not just suck/pacify.

I added a df at 8:30 (cluster) trying to tank him up (before he was waking as early as 9:30) thinking his nw were hunger related.  I'm afraid I am addicted to the paci, because he'll go right back to sleep if I give it (but sometimes wake up again in 40 min, or an hour, or 2 hrs).  I'm afraid to let him fuss/cry too long because I'm afraid he'll get so worked up he'll never go back to sleep.  naps aren't great...if I intervene he can usually sleep 1.5 hrs in AM and 2 in afternoon, but sometimes it's a lost cause.  Sometimes skips catnap.

I feel hopeless.  He's 5 mo for goodness sakes!  I dream of 4 straight hours of sleep.  That's sad.  I'm afraid I need to wean paci, but we have a lot of long car trips ahead in the next few months (one of 5 hrs each way and one of 9 hrs each way) and I think we'll all need the paci then.  As for pu/pd I have tried and he screamed so hard and so loud.....he didn't calm at all by the 5 min of holding.  I just had to pd, and he screamed and on it went.  It's a last resort, right?  Any other ideas I can try??? 

How old is your child?  5 mo
What’s his/her daily routine? 4 hr EASY (currently stretching A time from 2 to 2:15/2:30)
6:30 -up for the day & eat (may or may not have been awake for up to an hour before)
7-A
8:30-S
10:30 -E
11-A
12:30~1-S
2:30-E
3-A
4:30-catnap
5:10-A
5:30-E
6-bedtime routine (massage, last tank up bf, song, quiet time)
7-crib, usually out w/in 10 min
(I also just started a df at 8:30 to tank him up)
What’s nap routine? 2+ catnap, with 15 min winddown-book, song, etc
How long are naps?  35 min wakes up, but usually goes back down for total of 1.5 to 2 hrs
Do you bottle or breastfed?? bf
How much? or how long? 5-7 min per side...sometimes 1 side, sometimes both
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) both if he'll take them
How many wakes per night? 5-6
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? I usually feed if it's been 3 hrs since last feed, and re diaper too, since he's eating, and surely peeing.  when I don't feed, he fusses till he mantas till he cries for help. I paci, p/s
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?  I try to wait for the all out cry
What have you tried to settle?? paci, p/s (I have tried pu/pd but like a bad mommy didn't follow through.  he screams louder and harder than I have ever heard)
What do you do for A time and how long is it? 2:15~2:30 or so of awake time, in morning: bath, exersaucer, songs, dancing, etc. In afternoon/evening more low key, books, songs, dancing, mirror play, blocks, joining us for dinner, etc.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? teething maybe??? but this waking has been going on for quite a while
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) no
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? paci
Do they have a lovie? recently introduced a bear

[tracefo]

Hi,
I think you and Zoey should talk, it seems you are having similar issues.  My dd did this around 5 months too.  She just needed the soother to go back to sleep.  I just kept playing find the soother and put it in your mouth until she was able to do it herself.  We had great nights and really aweful nights!  Your ds may be coming to the 6 month growth spurt too.  We had to decide if we could wait until she could put the soother back in herself or if we wanted to wean her of it.  We chose the former and around 7 months she started sleeping through without our help.  Now she only wakes if she is really hungry.  I hope that helps.
Tracey

[teezee]

how r things going now?

[x95stocchier]

Boy am I glad you asked....unfortunatley, not so well.  I weaned the paci, started pu/pd and assumed I was on my way to happy sleep land.  Well, I was...for about 2 or 3 days....it's been back to the same old same old, ever since. 

Last night he woke 7 times!   He's waking for all his naps at 30~50 min, and sometimes I can get him back to sleep and sometimes not.  A good day is now when I can get him back to sleep from early nap wake, and "only" 4 nw!  This is no good!  I asked these questions to the pu/pd board, but perhaps you have some insight too......I'd appreciate any feedback!

 I am still night feeding (he's exclusively bf) , want to change one to a df, but wakes are inconsistent (and early) so it's hard to get one in.  I usually feed around 10 (if he wakes earlier, I put him back to sleep....then he sometimes goes as late as 11 or 11:30 before the first night feed) Then I feed again later in the night (around 2 or 3).  Is this possibly confusing him?  Sometimes he gets fed (10 or 2), and sometimes not (9:30, 1, 4, etc)?  if only these 2 nw, I wouldn't be concerned...but when he wakes several more times and doesn't get fed...

 early wakes...he's still waking anytime from 4 to 5 and sometimes self settles, but usually only for 30 min or so.  I have been doing pu/pd to get him back down, but over and over, I only get 15 to 30 min out of him, then back in.  We start the day at 6:30, do you think I should consider an earlier start to the day, or earlier bedtime? (currently bedtime is 7)

I know bad naps usually mean bad nights, and bad nights usually mean bad naps, and so how on earth do you get out of this cycle?  I feel so helpless!

[evelyn]

Sorry no advice but {{{{{hugs}}}} i too would be interested in any replies...your ds and my (8month ) dd sound very very alike.  If it is any consolation my good nights are 2 feeds aswell, and daytime naps are a disaster

[teezee]

maybe you need to extend A time a little so lo will be more tired to sleep through the night?!

how long have these type of night wakings been going on now? could it be a sensitivity to something in your diet? have you tried eliminating anything to see if it made any difference?? specifically - how exactly are the wakings - if you go in does lo stop crying? must you feed?? what happens if you were to leave the room with him - is he happy then?

[teezee]

evelyn - if you could kindly post your routine i could take a look for you...and also if you could tell me exactly how these wakings are when your lo gets up - it would be appreciated.

have you tried weaning the night feeds at all? or are you comfortable with the feedings as they are?

[x95stocchier]

Hi Tawnya,
Thanks for the reply.  he is so spent by nap time...rubbing his eyes like crazy, and hardly  makes it through the naptime story/song routine.  Do you still think I should try to extend?  2:15 total awake time, maybe?  I am never sure what time to do AM nap.  he gets up at 6:30, but is really awake at 5 or 5:30, I've read both to pull up AM nap to when he shows sleepy signs to prevent overtired and I've also read that if you pull up the nap, then it will reinforce the early wake.

These nw (anywhere from 4 nw to more like 7 or have been going on for quite a while.....I'd say more than a month.  I weaned the paci this month, and it helped a little (ie, he used to wake at 1, 1:15, 1:45, now just wakes once around that time then goes back down).  When  he wakes, I'll feed if after 10 and after 2 (that's 4 hr stretches) but other times I do pu/pd.  He'll usually calms pretty easy (except for the 5 am-ish wake, that is usually a lost cause.  I let him mantra for about 20 min this AM, then I did pu/pd, and he cried and fussed and almost settled, then cried and fussed and so on, until wake up time.  never did go back to sleep from 5:15 to 6:30.)
I've never tried leaving the room for a nw.

I spent a month on a very bland diet and it didn't seem to make a difference, good thought though.  He's happy as a clam during the day, (except in evening when he's tired).

Recently I've been pulling bedtime from 7 to 6:30 because he's SO tired.  (naps aren't exactly great either, but we're working on that).


I think the hardest thing is that nw are all over the place....last night first one was 8:40!  I can't seem to get in with any w2s, because he's not consistent.

Thanks again for your reply.  Hopefully this additional info helps you help us!

[Khyan & Sahria's mum]

I am absolutely NO expert

But when my LO was much younger (actually he still is alittle this way) I found that if he was overtired when he went to bed that he would have MANY night wakes.

From what you are saying with how tired he is at nap time I would consider putting him down earlier with the hope that he will sleep better during his naps and then be rested enough to sleep somewhat better over night (esp. once he learns the independant sleeping with the help of pu/pd)

I also understand how you said that early nap reinforces early wakes and this may be true but I think if you could deal with the naps and then the night wakes and then if need be the early morning wakes.

Just a thought but it may be worth a go

Goodluck

[JKL]

Oh!  I am having the exact same problem with my son, who is a month younger than yours.  (If it makes you feel any better, after going to sleep at 8, mine was up last night at 10, ,12:10, 1:30, 2, and 4:45, and woke for the day at 6:45.)  I too go through that to feed or not to feed dilemma.  Sorry, I don't have advice (If I knew what to do I'd be doing it!   Just wanted you to know you are not alone!

Jen

[evelyn]

Yikes....i will try write our routine, Our am wake up and pm bedtime are at those times as i work 3 long days per week.

6.30...awake and bf
7.30....breakfast
8.30-9   sleep, usually only 45-60mins
10.30 breastfeed
11.30-12pm...dinner
12.30-1...sleep usually 45-60 mins
2.30 bf
3pm  some fruit
5pm bf, may have catnap here
6. bathtime
6.30 supper 7.30-8pm bf and struggle to get her to sleep for 8.30
        wakes usually around 10pm, 12.30(feed) 2.30, 4.30(feed), its not uncommon for her to wake for day before 5am.
She was doing well before i went back to work 7 weeks ago, she even was down to 1 wake up and feed for 2 nights(sigh), but she has found it hard to settle at her childminders.  Naps are even poorer there and she has to wait for me to come home at 8pm for her night time feed.  My childmindedr does her best to stick to her routine but this can go very astray as it lily is very slow with bottles and only takes 4oz ebm at a pop, also pu/pd does not work for her when she is there,  sorry i have to dash!  Any advice welcome! 
Ps.....dont mind the nightfeeds really!!  Do mind all the wakings and would love a proper break during the day!!!

[The Vern]

Tracefo - how long did it take for you lo to learn to put the paci back in herself? I'd love to know your trick!!!

[teezee]

evelyn - at 8 months i def don't think your lo needs this catnap at all. i really think you could stand to stretch out the A time as it would then push the day later and lo wouldn't be overtired before bed kwim? i think you would get better napping out of lo if you did this as she would be more tired before naps..if she 'seems' tired at the usual nap time i suggest only slowly increasing it every day a little at a time as she is 'used' to her routine - and make sure you keep the A time (extra A time before sleeping) very low key - whether it's reading a book or haviing a little chat...low key! i think this should help you and your lo greatly as i believe that she is getting too much daysleep and not getting tired enough overall to be getting good rest all the way around. good luck and keep us posted!!

[teezee]

btw - for those of you struggling with whether or not to feed at night - try settling lo in the crib first - if lo sleeps past an hr than assume the waking wasn't from hunger. if lo wakes before an hr assume hunger and feed.

don't know how old everyone's lo's are - but i did slowly start weaning dd off night feeds at about 6 months..

[evelyn]

Hi teezee, thanks for your reply! Makes a lot of sense!  I posted earlier today out of shear desparation, so please dont think i was wasting your time!!!