5 mo old..too many nw

[teezee]

exactly - with taking less frequent feedings he will be taking more in at each feeding which in turn will help his belly sustain him for longer periods of time.

slowly wean the feed in fact i will give you a link i didn't start with dd til she was just over 6 months as at that time i figured it was time..although she completely had her night and day feedings backwards by that point and it took a LONG time for me to get it straightened out...you think you have felt hopeless - i thought she would NEVER eat during the day! here is the link:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

[x95stocchier]

Thanks! Thats a great link.  I have 2 feeds right now at night....the first one has moved to 11:30/12 (used to be more like 10) the other 3~4 (used to be 2)  Last night it was at 4:30, so I only fed one side, afraid he wouldn't be hungry at 6:30 if I fed both.

I want to change the early one to a df, and eliminate the second.  Which would you work on first? My thought is eliminate the late one, and then slowly pull up the other with a df.  That way at first he won't be going such a long stretch (if he eats at midnight, then not again till 6:30, vs, a df at 10, then not again till 6:30)  After I eliminate the late feed, pull up the early one by 15/30 min increments to something more reasonable like 10/10:30.  Does that make sense?  What do you think?

[x95stocchier]

BTW- after the first good night, DH said to me, Daniel wants a sister.    lol, okay things are better, but not quite THAT good! I told him we'll talk in a few more months!

[teezee]

it really is whatever way you feel comfortable with kwim? i did both night feedings at once using this weaning method as that is what suited me best and it worked - again - whatever you feel most comfortable with!

your dh is crazy! after the first they seem so baby crazy huh?!..i know my dh is too:)

[x95stocchier]

Well, why is it that when I have improvement, it always only lasts a couple of days??  I know the los keep changing it up on us, but really....ds gives me 2 or 3 good days/nights, and then back to old habits.
he's been waking for naps again.....often I can only get 50~55 min out of one of his naps, the other he wakes 2 or more times. At night, he's taken to waking a few extra times again, and also the early mornings....they never really went away, but he started self soothing, and the past few days has needed me to come in do pu/pd to get him calmed back down between 5 and wake up at 6:30. 

aaaaaaa....I know you say I just need to be consistant, and these things will blow by, but seriously, we have never had a solid week of good sleep (day or night).  I'm trying to get to a place I'm comfortable leaving with dh for a movie and feeling confident he won't wake between bedtime and 10 pm, or leave him with a sitter or dh for a nap time and feel confident he'll sleep though a good hour and a half, but no luck!

I've been working on moving A time closer to 2:30....we're at 2:25 now.  Could this be too much for him?  Maybe  I need to drop catnap?  Oh, he's sooo tired in afternoons, I'm not sure he'll survive from PM nap till bedtime.  When you do that, do they eventually lengthen their other 2 naps to make up for the lost catnap?

[teezee]

there is always some regression when you make changes - that is totally normal don't let it discourage you just keep up the good work you are doing and it too shall pass 

yes they do eventually lengthen those other two naps so they are rested enough - usually doesn't take too long.

and i too know the feeling of not being able to leave your lo with anyone..i didn't for the longest time - felt like forever...hold tight and try to enjoy this age - it really doesn't last forever..soon enough you will be where i am wishing your lo was 6  months again 

[x95stocchier]

What could he be regressing on?  tummy sleeping?  i don't think I changed anything else recently.

So does that mean I shouldn't change anything just yet, and let this settle first? (ie A time, catnap, etc)?

I am having trouble figuring out the schedule w/ longer A time...seems no room left for a catnap.  If I have 2:25~2:30 A time, naps can only be 1.5 hrs or run into feeds.  Then after PM nap, there is 4.5 hrs left to the day, but if I wait 2.5 hr before catnap, he's waking from catnap 1~1.5 hrs before night sleep.  Am I making sense?  Seems with 2.5 hr A time, the catnap doesn't fit

have I said lately how much I appreciate your help?!

[teezee]

well you can still tweak a bit here and there but no drastic changes imo.

i wouldn't worry so much about time - if your lo is healthy and thriving you imo don't have a need to wake him for a feeding at this age - when he is hungry he will wake. i know my lo would from the age of about 7-8 months go up to 5hr+ without a feed..so if lo is going 4.5 don't sweat it. be liberal with easy and if it's gotta be aeasy or something like that don't sweat it!! as long as you have a 'routine' time doesn't matter so much kwim? follow your lo's cues and let him lead the way - with your guidance of course

just make sure with stretching this A time that your lo isn't getting overtired - you may have to move slower if you are wanting to extend - even like 15 min for a wk or two if that's what lo can handle...if he's ok with it than go forward. have you tried w2s for the short naps that you would like to extend?

if you want to cut out that catnap and give an earlier bedtime for now i think you should try it. if after a wk or so it isn't working you can always go back to what you were doing before kwim? no harm done.

i am glad i am appreciated just wish i was able to help you more/quicker   

[x95stocchier]

As you've said, stick with it, and things do get better. 

We skipped catnap last night (not by choice...I had a dr appt and DH has a short tolerance for that kind of thing.)  Daniel usually fights catnap hardest...lately 15 min or so.  DH gave up at 10, and so we put him down at 6.....he did really good!  Woke once at 9:30 ( I think he was expecting a feed, since I usually feed between 10:30~11:30--I didn't want to feed early for fear his whole night...and morning, would be 1 hr early) He then woke for 2 feeds as usual, and best of all..NO EARLY WAKINGS!  Woke up happy and playing at 6:30 on the dot! 

So not sure if it was the dropped catnap, but may try without for a while.  How long should I keep the super-early bedtime?  Just follow his cues for bedtime?  It's difficult with a long bedtime routine (massage, etc) I never know when to start, so sometimes I just expedite the whole thing if he starts getting restless.

It may be hard to judge results for a while, as we are headed out of town for 4 days.   That always happens when we're starting to make progress! Oh, well, Grandparents have to see the lo too!  I'll continue to skip catnap while there if he's getting good day sleep, which, BTW, he's been doing great on his 2 naps these past few days...sleeping well, and no early wakes. YIPPIE!

We're sitting pretty on a 2:25 A time right now and think we'll stay with it for a while.  Seems all this combined may be helping w/ early wakes too.

Thanks for the reminders about flexibility. I'm a type A personality (can you tell!?)  I expect there must always be one correct answer!  Too bad babies aren't that way!

[teezee]

along with early wakings, when a lo start fighting that catnap it usually means it is about time to drop it and go with an earlier bedtime when needed  so good job to you!!

i would keep the earlier bedtime til you think he will be able to make it longer. i would go with a couple wks to start and then slowly extend it by 15 every few days and see how it goes - as long as lo doesn't get overtired you are good as gold!

you are absolutely right - it is all relative of each other - just keep the balance - that's the secret

with going away it may/may not affect things..and when you get back chances are he will be a bit off - but just keep consistant with what you have been doing and he will catch on again!

i'm the same way btw - i LIKE structure!! i had a hard time adapting to my lo at first this way but it does get easier as the months go by.

continue what you are doing b/c it is working!! way to go and congrats!!

[x95stocchier]

Hi Tawnya!

I thought I owe you an update!  A lot has gone on.  While we were out of town, DS was a trooper...he took 2 GREAT naps every day!    Night sleep was a little rough, but I was happy about the naps.  Most days at home are good naps now too....much better than before.  We are at about 2:30 A time now.

On the NW, he's self soothing more, and in fact, one night around the time I usually feed him (around 2:30) he self soothed before I got in there, so I let it go, he woke off and on for an hour or so and kept fussing, but not crying...eventually fell back asleep and woke at 6!  I was shocked!  He didn't need that other feed!  So, then I started to let him do that several nights, and haven't been feeding him that second feed anymore.  I can't believe he cut it himself!  He hasn't been taking a lot, though anyway.  He does still usually wake up between 2 and 4 and fuss back to sleep every night.

I do have a new question....he's doing the early morning wake thing again (Still??) so I'm not sure what to do now.  He's probably hungry.  I've seen some feed and put them back down.  I tried that a few times, and he never went back to sleep.  But this AM he got REALLY upset when I tried pu/pd with him.  He must have been really hungry.  Not sure what to do now.    Should I feed or not?  And if I do, won't that screw up the EASY for the whole day, since he won't eat well at 6:30?  Maybe the early wakes are not due to hunger, but to the bedtime?  We're working on moving that back toward 7 since cutting the catnap.  he's been good letting me extend slowly from 6, and we are at about 6:15 now.  RE: early wakings, perhaps I need to expedite the process, get it back to 7 quicker?  or the other way around?  He's up 3:45~4 after PM nap till bedtime (depending on when he wakes from PM nap)  I've also thought if I can extend A times more, he may push that PM nap later, and therefore decrease that last long A ?  What do you recommend?  That early wake is annoying, because it throws off our whole day...he's overtired from the get-go.

[teezee]

that's amazing!! congrats!! it's amazing how capable of self soothing they become kwim?!

the early waking is usually caused by one of two things...

overtiredness or too much day sleep. how much total hrs of sleep is lo getting these days? and def if you are able to extend that A time to push the nap later go for it as this would def solve lo being overtired before bed if that has become an issue. biggest thing with these early morning wakes - keep lo up for a 'normal' amt of A time as if you put them down early for a nice long nap it will only reinforce this habit...they will just be using that nap as the rest of their night sleep - so if it still persists (if you have solved the too much sleep/not enough A time no overtiredness) you may want to try and see if limiting the morning nap to say half of what lo is getting now will help the situation. good luck with it all - will be thinking about you

[x95stocchier]

Thanks Tawnya-

His day naps total no more than 3 hrs right now. On a perfect day 1:20 in AM, 1:40 in PM, (though often AM is only 50 min!) Should I try to be extending?  I think these are about right for a 6 mo old, right?  I will try to slowly increase A time again....both morning and afternoon, to push the naps later.  It's tough to get him over the hump from PM nap till bedtime.  Last night I put him to bed at 6 again (we'd been going for 6:15)  I think at 6 mo he can go anywhere from 2.5~3 hrs A time, right?

[teezee]

ok i am no expert on amt of A times as i was sooo totally off when my dd was 6 months 

that does sound about right though - maybe 2.5 hrs for the first A time and progressively getting a bit longer throughout the day..even better than taking my 'guessing' check out the faq for the easy board as they have sample routines for lo's of all ages. i think that would help you get a better idea

it def is a hard time for adjustment with cutting out that nap...remember everything you are doing as you will need all of your skills again as later you drop from two to one...the fun really does continue

i think you are truly on the right track - it is just a matter of him NOT getting overtired in that last A time    i know of ppl who have put their lo's to bed for the night as early as 5:30pm - never done it myself but could be an option for the time being??!!

[x95stocchier]

Things are still going "okay" and hopefully getting  better soon, but we can't seem to get bedtime any later than 6...still!  I  tried going 6:10 for a couple days and it did not work!  (woke up at 8:30/9 every night) Should it be taking this long?  I think we are on 3 weeks at 6 pm.