Questions re Wake to sleep for naps (5week old)

[MackMum]

Hi,
I'm new to this website and to parenting - a fabulous friend put me onto the Babywhisperer about a week ago. Have been devouring the book and perusing this website and feel sooooo much more confident and relaxed about parenting my 5wk old DS. Already Tracy's techniques and explanations are working great and make so much more sense out of this massive learning curve.

Anyway, my problem at the moment is getting DS to extend his naps. In his first 2 weeks he was a good napper (if I could get him off to sleep inthe first place), and has always slept very well at nights, only waking for feeds and then straight back to sleep. However, he now only seems to nap for 35-45mins at a time- reading the sticky on wake to sleep it seems that he's having trouble getting back into the next sleep cycle. I don't know if we triggered this problem cos my mother has been staying for 3 weeks and we would go out each day and also he got handled a lot when he got cranky. As a result I think he was getting overtired, and whenever he woke he'd end up being picked up, rather thanbeing given a good enough chance to get back to sleep.

Since mum left last thursday I have implemented a consistent windown routine which is working beautifully and DS seems to get off to sleep very well. I have also tried to really limit outings (while we sort this out) to give him the best chance to have some peace and quiet.

SO, to try and extend his naps I have been sneaking in about 20-25mins after he drops off and applying gentle pressure to his arms (he's a strong little flailer) and legs and trying to catch the jolt that seems to happen at around 30-35mins, and hopefully get him past the 45 mins mark. In the past 3 days it has worked 2-3 times and he has slept for another cycle (I wanted to do the same at the next one but missed the slot - I need at timer!!). Once he's woken, he doesn't seem to be able to get back to sleep again - despite attempts to redo the windown routine etc.
Pat/shh doesn't work on him, he just gets more awake - it only works to calm him if he's crying, and during the cuddle before I put him down in his cot. Then he goes off to sleep far better without me there, than if I hover around (as low key as I can) shhing or applying pressure (patting while he's in his cot really doesn't work). Which is a bit of a pain cos then it's slight guesswork as to when he actually drops off into deep sleep.

So, because the pressure doesn't really seem to have much success at getting him through the jolt, and shhing doesn't work to ease him through either, I'm wondering if the more effective method would be to partially wake him before that 30-35min mark? Since I'm new to these techniques I'd love to hear your thoughts on this - is it applicable in this particular situation, and for his age, and how best should I go about implementing it?

I'd really appreciate any comments/suggestions you might have.

Oops, just read the 'please read before you post' thread and should include the following details:
DS is on a 3hour easy routine with cluster feeds at about 5:30pm and 7:30pm. Bathtime is before the 7:30pm feed. so he generally has a feed at 7amish, 9:30-10amish, 12:30ish, 3ish, 5:30ish, 7:30-8:ish, 11pmdreamfeed, then he usually wakes me once or twice for a feed during the night, but settles right back to sleep after. Feeding is good although he bobs on and off the boob a bit, perhaps distracted by his bowels? Though it's early days yet,  I think he's mostly a textbook baby with a bit of touchy and spirited thrown in here and there.

Windown routine is - swaddle tightly since he's good at getting his arms out, curtains&lights off, quiet sit and cuddle with pat and shh if fussing/fidgety and put into cot (warmed with hoer bottle - it's autumn here in New Zealand) when he's quiet and starting to close his eyes. All the while telling him quietly that 'it's time for a sleep'. I then give him a kiss and walk leave him. He usually settles to sleep in 10-20mins). As he is only managing pretty short naps, he generally gets fussier and crankier as the day rolls on and is at his worst between 5pm and bathtime. Then bath and feed work their magic and he usually goes to sleep after and won't wake for hours - if I skip a dreamfeed he has gone 6-7hours until he wakes for thenext feed (Though of course I wake repeatedly listening for him and sometimes end up pacing the floor waiting for him to wake since my boob feels too uncomfortable to sleep!  ).

He does have a pacifier but I've been trying to limit it's use to calming him when he's really wound up, and when I want to stall him a bit before his next feed. As soon as he gets into stage2 it falls out and wakes him up so I've avoided using it to get him off to sleep as I don't want to be a yoyo going back and forth putting it back in.

[avery's momma]

ditto, but for my 9 week old. almost our routine exactly! my advice (that helped except for today.. which is why i am searching for answers today!!) is to try to extend A time a bit- maybe 5 to 10 mins (though a MOD might correct me..  we were dealing with the same thing.. i think my lo started that 45 minute waking around 6/7 weeks. i tried to extend A time just this week and it seems to work really well for us. (except for this morning.. i thought she was more tired than she was and i put her down a bit early.. and she woke early.. that little rascal!)
i have not tried wake to sleep, as she seems to get more worked up if she sees me in her room, and i am too afraid of that happening to even try it! sometimes if she is really tired, i will sit with her in the glider and try to get her to rest or fall back asleep on my chest so she can get some sleep. she gets really frustrated if i pick her up, calm her, and try to put her back down. it has never worked for me!, and pat/shh just seems to wake her up too bc she looks over and sees me! maybe that will help you... i have heard great things about wake2sleep, but i have just never tried it.. good luck!

[UNCMomma]

I was just on another thread discussing W2S for naps, I wish I could remember where!   

Anyway, have you tried going in about 5 min before he first jolts awake and brushing his cheek or forehead to get him to stir?  This is the only way that W2S works for my 13 wk old, and it doesn't ALWAYS work.  When I do this, I leave immediately so she doesn't see me and sometimes she'll extend. 

Personally, shorter awake times help my LO get her naps straight in tough times.  She still requires a very short awake time after her 6:30 wake up time, about 40 min before her first nap.  But you could definetly try lengthening them 5-10 min as previous post suggested.  Just make sure you don't lengthen them too much at one time, as baby will quickly get overtired and the vicious short nap cycle will continue!  Sounds like your routine is good, just watch his awake times! 

Oh, and my baby bobs on and off the boob when she's getting full!    Good luck! 

Amanda

[avery's momma]

every baby is different.. i barely know what little avery needs from one day to the next! i will try w2s at next nap i think.. surprisingly, she just made it through this one on her own! (yay!)
ps- amanda (UNCmomma).. did you go to University of North Carolina? I went to NC State! (we can still be friends though, if you did!  )...

[MackMum]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Well, I'm pleased to say I've had a bit of success with extending my LOs naps- only tried the w2s once, and he started to wake as usual anyway, so I stuck around and put pressure on his arms and legs - this time I applied a bit more pressure than I'd tried before. And, after about 20mins and an increasingly achey back, it worked! So I've decided to try and stick with the one method for a couple of weeks rather than giving up so soon and trying something different. It seems to work about 70% of the time. I've been going in at every nap, about 20mins after he's gone into deep sleep. Then I sit in a chair by his cot and effectively pin his arms with my two hands and his legs (or at least one of them) with my forearm. I seem to have to sit there for ages cos he starts jolting about 25-35mins and keeps going for about 20mins, partially waking every minute or two -  most of the time he has his eyes partially open during his REM sleep but they move all over the place and he runs through his repertoir of facial expression (quite entertaining for me watching!). Eventually he seems to settle back down into deep sleep, but many times it feels like that expression - a watched pot never boils- a watched baby keeps cycling through REM sleep, partially waking over and over and over! And then it's only another 20minsish before we do it all over again! So often I've just stayed in there, reading a book (BW!) in the dim light to help pass the time cos clockwatching is sooo tedious. We've done this for about 3-4 days now, for most of his naps. Oops, I've just missed the timeslot and he's awake  - bother!! I  so hope it's not too long before he learns to do this on his own!!

The length of awake time is very confusing really - he seems to start yawning only about 10mins after he's had a feed and a change, which is about 35-45mins after I got him up for his feed. We're usually working through his windown routine by the time he's on his 3rd yawn. I don't know if this is too long or not long enough  . As the day wears on he takes longer to settle for his naps, and by 5pm he's getting pretty cranky, presumably cos he's overtired.

Gotta go, the wee man is awake and hollering for attention!

[UNCMomma]

Avery's momma-YES!  I went to UNC (go tarheels)!     I've met someone else on these boards who is a State fan, and I told her I could tolerate State, just not Duke!     When did you go there?  I graduated in 2000 from UNC.  Small world!!!

Mackmum-sounds like you've got this extending thing down pat!  You're doing him such a favor by helping him get more sleep, I know he'll do it on his own soon!  I'm sure all that time you've invested is well spent.  I hope your luck continues and that the little guy catches on soon! At 5 weeks I think my LO's awake time was about 40 to 45 min too, so don't feel badly about that!   Once he gets into longer naps, maybe you could try extending awake time by tiny bits, but I  think I'd keep it short while he's 'learning' to sleep.  Good luck! 

Amanda