6.5 mo. old w/ multiple night wakings

[mama2H]

I think we have multiple issues!    Not sure where to begin.   Our 6.5 mo. old DS wakes at 10:30, and then pretty much every 1.5-2 hrs. all night long.  We are exhausted, and can't figure out why he is waking so much at night.  Here is his routine:

Wake 6:30
A
E 7:30 (breastfeed-usually both sides at each feed)
A
S 8:30 (anywhere from 45 min-1.25 hrs)
E 10:00 solids
A
E 11:30 (BF)
S 12:00 (anywhere from 45 min-1.25 hrs) 
A
E 1:30 (solids)
A
E 3:30 (BF)
S 3:45 (anywhere from 45 min-1.25 hrs)
A
E 6:30 (BF)
A
S 7 or 7:30

Dream Feed at 10:30
BF at 4:30 waking

However, as I'm typing this "routine" I realize that it is not much of a routine.  Despite our best efforts to be on a 4 hr EASY, things are very erratic.  Sometimes DS wakes at 5:30 bright-eyed and ready to play, and sometimes he sleeps until 6:45.  So the start of the day varies.  Nap durations also vary, and b/c they are short, we rarely transition from S to E without an A period in between.  The consistent things are that A periods are 2-2.5 hrs. long and E (breastfeeding) is every 4 hrs. 

For naps and at night we put him down awake but drowsy.  Most often he immediately stands up in his crib and so we leave the room and let him work it out.  After about 10 min. he will start fussing, at which point we start PU/PD.  We have been doing PU/PD for 2.5 weeks, and a few times lately DS has been going down with only pat/shhh.  Maybe we're making some form of progress?!?     

From naps he wakes happy and is happy throughout the day.  Although late in the afternoon (post nap #3) he can sometimes get cranky, in which case we will put him to bed at 6:45.

At night DS fusses when he wakes, but it is not a full-blown cry.  We try to get to him soon after he wakes b/c we have found that if we wait longer, he really wakes up and it is much harder to get him back to sleep.  Since we started PU/PD he seems to be waking even MORE at night, but PU/PD has helped make it easier for us to get DS back to sleep after most night wakings.  Usually we can reinsert pacifier and pat his back and he will pat his lovey and settle back to sleep.  But he is still waking up multiple times during the night.   

He was teething, but two teeth have now appeared, so we think that it is over for the time being, though he is still drooling quite a bit, so I suppose he could be getting more teeth. 

Sorry for the long message.  I wanted to include all of the requested info. so that hopefully someone out there can tell us what we are doing wrong!     

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi there

Can you tell us exactly what happens at bedtime?  Is your DS going into his cot while awake?  Drowsy?  Asleep?  Can you tell us more about your use of the paci?  Does he use it at bedtime?

Also what do you mean about your DS fussing before you go in and start pu/pd for naps and bedtime?  How long does that go on for?

Thanks, a little more info should help.
Jo

[Rubycino]

Hi Mama2H

We have the same issues so i am not sure that i can help but am interested in what the solution is for you. I completely understand how tired you feel after not having to wake so many times in the night before. I DD is 6 months today and is waking 3 times a night at the moment and refusing daytime sleeps (or screams until she sleeps but then only lasts 45 mins.) she use to sleep perfectly during the day with minimal fuss using the pat and shush (which she now hates, not sure if it is distrupting more than helping) and PU/PD works sometimes but others it does not. At night when she wakes i often end up rocking as this is quicker and keeps the rest of the household asleep but am i contibuting to or compounding the problem. Our routine is very similar

E 6:30/7
A
E solids
S 9.30 (maybe 45 min or she will completely suprise us and take 3 hours - very rare though!)
Y

E 11/11.30
A
E solids
S 1/1.30 (mabe 45 min)
Y

E 3/3.30
A
E 5.00

A 6 bath routine or walk
E 6.45/7pm
S 7pm (no real fussing)

DF 10.30

last night and the night before woke at 8pm, 9pm 10.30 DF, 11.10 12.00 and 3.30 (fed to put back to sleep for this one)

Hopefully others may be able to help us both?

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi Rubycino

Can I just check - is your DD only taking 2 naps per day and possibly only 45 mins each??  I think your DD is almost definitely overtired if that is the case - which will be causing those night wakings.  I strongly recommend you reintroduce the third nap - the cat nap - and get it whatever way is easist - car ride, stroller ride, rock and hold to sleep.  At 6 months, doing a 5hr-ish A time in the afternoon is just too long.

As for using pat/ssshhh - Tracy says that at about the 6 month mark the noise of shh can become overstimulating.  Try patting with vocal soothing rather than sshhing and see if that works a little better - or stick with PU/PD.

As for rocking back to sleep during the night - I have been told that as long as your DD is falling asleep independently at the beginning of the night, rocking back to sleep during the night will not hurt. 

HTH
Jo

[Rubycino]

Thanks FrasersMum

sorry i forgot to mention that she also has a cat nap somewhere between 4 and 6pm for atleast 45 min.

We just got back from the Drs and he thought she might be teething if the night waking is only just started and everything else has remained constant???

This afternoon she woke after 40 mins and i managed to calm her in my arms and put back down for another 45 mins (i suppose that is  a start) she is also having her cat nap now after a good dose of teething gel...

[Rubycino]

well she is still having that catnap! Maybe the teething gel does work? Hopefully since she has had minimal sleep today this big cat nap will get her back on track for tonight.....will wait and see!

Hope all is going ok Mama2H.

Thanks FrasersMum for the advise.

[mama2H]

Hi Fraser's Mum.  Here are the answers to your questions:

Can you tell us exactly what happens at bedtime? Is your DS going into his cot while awake? Drowsy? Asleep?

 DS has warm bath, followed by a book, lullaby, a little rocking and then into his crib drowsy, but awake.  We try to keep this wind down routine very consistent.  The past few weeks he would immediately pull to standing in his crib at this point, but the last two nights he has kept down w/ eyes open and let us pat/shh to sleep.  He is asleep no later than 7:30 (sometimes ever earlier depending on his mood after nap #3).

Can you tell us more about your use of the paci? Does he use it at bedtime?

 Yes, he only uses the paci at bedtime/naps.  We give it to him at the start of the winddown routine.   He usually spits it at at some point and is fine sleeping w/o it.  But then when he wakes we put it back in b/c it seems to calm him.

Also what do you mean about your DS fussing before you go in and start pu/pd for naps and bedtime? How long does that go on for?

When DS sits or pulls to standing in his crib, we leave the room b/c he he gets upset if we try to lie him down.  We let him work it out for a little while b/c he is not fussing.  But after about 10 min. or so DS starts fussing.  At first it is mantra cry, so we leave him be.  But then it escalates to full blown cry so we go into the room and start PU/PD.  PU/PD takes around 10 min., but often with only a few PUs.  At this point he will usually lie down and let us pat his back until he falls asleep. 

I think that answers all of your questions, but let me know if you have others or need more clarification.  And just to be clear, DS has never once slept through the night.  He used to wake at least twice, but now is waking even more often.

Rubycino, the teething for our DS definitely interfered with his sleep both at naps and nighttime (and possibly still is?  )  The teething gel worked wonders for us!  Also, in the daytime we gave our LO a piece of frozen fruit in one of those mesh-bag things that are made for babies starting solids (let me know if you don't know what I am talking about with this and I can send you a link to one).  DS loved it.  I think the cold really felt good on his gums. HTH.

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hmmmm ok, it COULD be that the paci is a problem but I am not sure.  All of that extra info that you have given looks ok - nothing stands out to me as a possible "cause" of the wakings.

So - you said that DS wakes for the first time at 10.30, and then every couple of hours after that.  And you said that you give the DF at 10.30.  So is he waking when you are giving the DF?  Before?  After?  And are you not giving any other feeds from then until 4 am even if he has multiple wakings?  How are you getting him back to sleep during those other wakings?

When did you introduce solids?  How much is he taking?

Just you you know  my DS rarely sleeps through the night either.  He has only done so a handful of times and it is very random.  So I know how hard it is and how difficult it can be sometimes to see a solution.  But let's have a look at that further info and see if something else stands out.  Remember though, MOST babies wake during the night - it is VERY normal.  For me, understanding that night wakings are normal makes them much easier for me to deal with.

OK, let me know and I'll check back in

Cheers
Jo

[mama2H]

I guess I shouldn't have called it a "dream feed," because really he wakes at 10:30 and so I feed him and he falls right back asleep.  So I'm not feeding him w/o waking him which would be a true DF.  Even if he wakes up multiple times, I don't feed him again until between 3:30 and 4:30 (whenever that night waking happens to be on a particular night--usually closer to 4:30).  He's a big kid--almost 20 lbs at 6.5 months, so I feel like he can make  it from the 10:30 BF to 4:40ish, but I could be wrong.

We introduced solids about a month ago.  It's been a pretty slow process b/c I didn't want to cause him any tummy issues.  he currently gets about 3 oz spread out over 3 meals a day.  Usually fruit in the morning, veggie in the afternoon and then cereal before bed.  We're really just introducing new tastes and textures at this point.  BF is still his primary source of calories.

I wonder about his short naps (even though we put him down awake, it seems like he wakes at the end of a sleep cycle), also his early/inconsistent wake times (would it be better for him to wake at the same time each morning, even if that is 6:00?), and of course the night wakings (no idea the reason for multiple wakes each night!!) 

We are fine with one or even two wakes a night, but every hour or two from 10:30 on is hard to deal with!!   

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi again

I really can sympathise and I know those night wakings are hard.

I was told that it is COMMON for babies, esp BF babies, to require up to 2 feeds during the night up to 9 months and then some still require a feed up to 12 months (like I said before, my 14 month old is still waking - and feeding - during the night). 

The waking at the end of sleep cycles (particularly apparent with 45 min naps) is also common and often starts to even itself out at around the 6 month mark.  So keep your eyes open for an END to those (although some babies will just always take short naps).  But the only way you can teach your LO to transition through sleep cycles is to put them to bed while awake and let them fall asleep independently - which you are doing.  Like I said before, to eliminate all possible causes of the night wakings, you might like to work on weaning the paci.

The other thing I would try is to not feed at the 10.30 waking, but instead try to settle at all wakings up to say midnight, then offer a feed, then resettle at wakings until 3 hours have gone by (if there are any), feed again, and then shoot for morning before the next feed.  It will teach your LO that he will not be fed at each waking - in fact you aren't feeding at the first waking.  Those early night wakings are typically also the ones where it is easier to get your LO back to sleep.

A lot of different things can cause night wakings - see the post at the top of the board and perhaps something will stand out to you.  Sometimes it is just a phase that your LO is going through.  If that is the case, you need to do exactly what you are doing, respond promptly to DS when he wakes so he knows you are there for him, and ride these ones out.  They WILL get better.

HTH.  Good luck
Jo

[mama2H]

Thanks FrasersMum.  I have been trying your suggestion of not feeding at the first wake, but then feeding later in the night/morning.  I guess our LO was hungry, b/c it has helped some with the night wakings.  Our dr. says that even a BF baby could make it through the night w/o a feed, but I knew in my heart that our LO gets hungry at night, so I was glad to see in your post that some babies need to be fed twice a night up until 9 mo.  That confirmed what I was feeling.  DS is still waking at 10:30, but is now easier to settle and is only waking every 3 or so hours after that.  We can live with that for awhile.    Thanks again for your help/advice!