Author Topic: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY  (Read 3325 times)

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Offline luann53051

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4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« on: May 17, 2006, 16:11:10 pm »
Hi there.

My four month old is still on 3 hour EASY during the day.  I know that I should be transitioning her to a four hour routine, but here is my dilemma...

I will put her to bed at 8pm.  She will wake at 11pm to eat.  At that time, I try to give her a paci, because she doesn't seem that hungry.  Sometimes it will work, sometimes it doesn't.  She will then get up at 2am and 5am, acting extremely famished.  I bf her on one side, and when I take her off to burp, she will fuss, trying to latch on to the other side.  Obviously she is hungry. 

I have tried to do the dream feed with her, but when I do that, she will wake every hour on the hour for some reason.  I have no idea why, so I stopped doing that.  It was like the dream feed was prompting her to wake up a lot.  Since stopping doing that, she seems to be on the three hour schedule at night.

I know that I should be transitioning her to a four hour EASY, but I have read that if she is hungry a lot at night, I should increase her calories during the day.  I will not be increasing her calories during the day if I change to the four hour EASY.  I am afraid that will make her wake more. 

Also, any thoughts to giving her a bottle of water at the 11pm waking time.  Will that help her to stop waking at the time?  Obviously, my baby is waking at scheduled times, so I would slowly like to start with stopping the 11pm time (the one she is not really hungry for) then slowly working on the other two waking times--only if she stops being hungry during that time.

Here is a rough routine:

7:30 to 8:00  Wake and eat
8-9:30           Activity
9:30              Nap
11:00            Wake and eat
11-1:00         Activity
1:00             Nap
3:30             Wake and eat
3:30-6          Activity
6:00-6:30     Catnap
6:30             Wake and eat
7:30            Cereal feeding
8:00            Bedtime

11:00          Wake
2:00am        Wake (starving)
5:00am        Wake (starving)

Can anyone help???

Laura


Offline Kimberly®

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2006, 16:49:45 pm »
Start the transition to the 4 hour EASY.
Cut out the solids as they may be causeing tummy trouble, and at four months she doesn't need it. Contrary to popular beliefe feeding cearial doesn't make your baby sleep longer, it does the oposit if introduced to early. It also make it so your LO isn't getting as much milk as she should. So get rid of it.
Then Move the cat nap to 4:30 for no more the 45 minutes, move bedtime routine to 7 and bedtime to 7:30pm.
If she wakes at 11 feed her (it'd be the same as a dream feed.
You should then be able to drop one of the night wakings. 1 waking for food is pretty reasonable to start with.

HTH
Kimberly

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2006, 19:03:38 pm »
Thank you so much for the input.  I will transition to the four hour EASY, and I will stop feeding the cereal.  Weird thing is, my pediatrician INSISTED that I start baby on cereal at four months.  When she asked how she slept, the doc even said "well, once you start the cereal, it will help."  Even some pediatricians think this will help.   :o 

I will let you know how things go.

Laura

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2006, 01:49:14 am »
How do I go about dropping the last two night feedings???  Water in a bottle? 

Laura

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 01:57:30 am »
Yeah start watering down the formula 1 oz at a time untill its just water, she should loose interest.

Kimberly

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2006, 13:36:49 pm »
But...I am exclusively breastfeeding.  How do I cut night feedings with breastfeeding?   I read the book that said to cut down time at breast.  Can I just give a bottle of boiled, cooled down water instead?

Laura

Offline Kimberly®

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2006, 13:50:56 pm »
if your LO takes a bottle by all means try that :)
Kimberly

Offline Antoinesmom

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2006, 14:23:28 pm »
Did you try giving your LO a paci to see if she isn't just wanting to suckle? I was also bf a during the night. After a while, I tried uping his intake during the day and giving a paci when he would wake up during the night. Sometime, he took on to it and fell asleep olthers he would spit it out and cry for food, then I would feed.

Good luck.
My big boy is such a wonderful brother to his new sister.
I am truly blessed.

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2006, 14:10:51 pm »
Ok.  I am in the process of transitioning to the 4 hour easy.  She is now eating every 3 1/2 hours, instead of every 3 hours.  By this weekend, she should be on the four hour.

I tried bringing back the dream feed, and it didn't affect a thing.  Bedtime was 8pm, I dream fed at 10, and she was up at 12am.    I tried to use the paci to get her back to sleep, and she kept fussing and spitting it out.  By 1am, I finally fed her, and she acted like she was starving. 

Then, she was up at 2am, starving, and 4am starving.  Arguh!  What do I do?  Do I continue the dream feed and see if this gets better?  Is this a sign that my milk supply is low?  Why in the world would my four month old need to eat at 10, 1, 2, and 4?

Help!!

Laura

Offline Antoinesmom

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2006, 14:37:45 pm »
As per my reply on your other board, it seems you need to up the calories during the day. It's not that your milk supply is low, it's just that she is requiring to take more in since she goes farther in between the feeds.

Since she is on a 3.5 hour routine, I would have her up for only 1h45min. Being up for two hours is a lot for her right now since she is in transition. I actually kept my son on the 3.5 hour routine for two weeks and he showed me that he was ready to go on the four hour routine. He was usually up for 1h30 mins and 15 minutes for him to fall asleep, next thing I know he didn't show signs of tiredness until 1h45, sleeping by the 2hour mark. He still sometimes goes back to 3.5 but this is getting rarer everyday. I found that it was easier for my son when I introduced the idea of stretching the feed and uping his calorie intake during each feed. You may want to feed each side during the day feed, switch often (it helps up the milk production) for a few days, or you could pump between the feeds and offer that in a bottle after a feed. Or offer a formula bottle after a feed.

I suggest that you try to up her intake during the day,the way you prefer, keep her on the 3.5 until her calories intake have risen, and reassess on Monday. Let us know how things turns out.
My big boy is such a wonderful brother to his new sister.
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Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2006, 16:15:06 pm »
Thank you.  I so appreciate your patience with me. 
I will update on Monday.

Laura

Offline Antoinesmom

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2006, 18:13:10 pm »
Big, big Huggs to you. You are doing great! Don't give up and be confident you'll get there. I've been in your shoes not to long ago. I had to experiment with different things before I found the right one. Keep writing on the boards, it really helps and at least you get it out of your system. Keep it up and you'll get there, we all know you can do it and we are here to support and assist you the best way we can.

Martine
My big boy is such a wonderful brother to his new sister.
I am truly blessed.

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2006, 13:38:25 pm »
Hello there!

Now, my lo is almost 5 months old, and I have finally been on the Four Hour EASY for about a week and a half now.  Things still haven't changed.  Here is the schedule now:

7:30 to 8:00  Wake and eat
8-9:30           Activity
9:30              Nap
11:00            Wake
11-12:00        Activity
12:00             Eat
12-1:30          Activity
1:30             Nap
3:30             Wake
4:00             Eat
4-5:00          Activity
5:00 - 5:30    Catnap
5:30             Wake and Activity
7:30             Start bedtime routine
8:00            Bedtime

11:00          Wake
2:00am        Wake (starving)
5:00am        Wake (starving)

This is just the typical schedule.  Sometimes she wakes more than this.  Last night, she was awake at 10:30, 1:00, 2:00, 5:00, then at 6:00 for the day.

I just don't know what to do.  I am inches away from CIO, because I am so frustrated.  I keep reading and re-reading the book, and I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.  I don't use props (baby falls asleep on her own).  I don't rush in before she is truly awake at night. 

Hardest thing is, I don't know what to do when she does wake at night.  PU/PD does NOT work for her.  It gets her all upset, and then she is screaming and throwing up.  Shh/pat doesn't work either, as she gets all upset with this too.  HELP!!

Laura


Offline Antoinesmom

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2006, 14:04:35 pm »
Hi Luna, Hang in there spirited babies take longer to reprogram. First I would suggest that you keep her up time the same lenght. I see that her second time up she is up for 2.5 hours that's way too much for her age. Try to keep all the up time the same, two hours should be the maximum until she is around 6months. Some babies can be up longer but that's around the same during every up time. Mon son just reverted back to the three hours routine as he was getting over tired on the four hour one. Just make sure to read her cues and not let her up more than 2 hours. Once naps are more equal and up time too, she may eat better.

How and what have you been doing to up her calory intake during the day? That plays a big role in the whole equation. Have you increased the time she is feeding, both sides, pumped, bottle? We really need her to take more calories in order to fix the night time issue. Like Tracy said in the third book, better to fix daytime problems when we have more energy.

I don't think it's a matter of what you are doing wrong, it's more a matter of calories, patience and time. I've read on some message boards of babies waking up for a feed until 6 months. Just thought of something, what was her birth weight and was she full term? That can also play a big role in all this. We'll get the hang of this, just be patient.
My big boy is such a wonderful brother to his new sister.
I am truly blessed.

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2006, 14:16:36 pm »
Thank you so much for the reply.  Sorry my message was so emotional..just had one of those bad nights, and I need sleep.

My baby was born at 36 1/2 weeks.  She didn't have any problems, she was a healthy 7 pounds, 8 ounces.  Even if there wasn't any issues with being born early, could this really affect how she is doing?

Thank you for listening to me.  I will keep you updated.

Laura


Offline Antoinesmom

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2006, 16:42:27 pm »
Not to worry, I know what you mean with needing sleep. I find that with my spirited son we have a real roller coster ride, some days are great and others ... don't get me started. I have notice that with time, patience and reading his cues better he is on the right track. He does tend to revert back to old ways. We just stick with the plan and are determined to see it through. Believe me when I say, I know it can be hard and exhausting but when you see your child on BW technique compaired to one that isn't you really see the difference. I know I did when my cousine brought her son who is only a month difference with my son. She couldn't even read his cues. So hang in there, I'll be here for you until your all find and dandy. I'm also getting help on another board, here's the link...https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=60380.0 As you'll see we are going through rough waters at times too. I also notice that our personnal attitude towards the whole thing affects Antoine a lot. When I feel frustrated, he sense it and is also more irritable during those time. Just remain focus and look at the goal that you are aiming for.

That said...yes the fact that your daughter was born 4 weeks early could be a reason she isn't quite ready for the four hour routine. I'm not saying that it is the reason, it could be. A 1.5 hour nap is great! Is she sleeping the whole nap without breaking it in two? My son has required help to complete his nap and has been sleeping the whole 1.5 hours since yesterday. I hope that I'm not jinxing myself by saying this. If she is sleeping the full 1.5 hour without interruption then I would keep her at the 3.5 hour routine for now. Just don't be too much of a clock hog, I did this mistake and Antoine was overtired and I was paying for that with broken naps. The real important thing is food, breastmilk or formula, intake.

On your before last post you indicated that she is eating from 12 to 1:30, Is this right? 1.5 hour meal? That's too long. She should take around 30-45 minutes to eat. Have you managed to augment your milk production? If so, her feed should be a little bit longer by around 10 -15 minutes. Since she is five months, I know some moms won't agree,  but have you started her on food (ie. cereal, veggies, fruits, pured of course). My son started food at 14 weeks and this has help us with night time waking. If you do start her on food, do make sure that she still feeds the same lenght of time or take in the same amount of formula.  We are only eating food in the morning, he now eats rice cereal and carrots. Because she is so young go slow about introducing new food.  It's important to take everything in consideration. How active is she? I believe she was on cereal before, so she must know how to eat but go slow in reintroducing it, if that's what you choose to do. slowly increase the amount and decrease the water in the equation. We are still at 1.5 water for 1 rice cereal, or pureed carrots.

As for what to do when she wakes at night, we use the pu/pd and it took a long time until it worked. For lots of spirited baby, pu/pd and shush pat are too stimulating. How are you doing the pu/pd? We could tweek it for her needs.

I gotta a go for now, don't despear.
We'll get you there.
My big boy is such a wonderful brother to his new sister.
I am truly blessed.

Offline harker s

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Ending Night Feedings
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2006, 05:28:54 am »
hey luann stick in there. my lo is 8 mos 2 wks and i have just decided i have had enough of the night feedings. she was waking up every hour and a half to two hours all night. i am breastfeeding and have tried the pu pd method which was not working. so i quite her off night feeding cold turkey. i feed her before her bath, bath her, top her up with some bmilk then put her down, rubbing her back. she now wakes up an hour later where i give her a bottle of warm boiled water, usually takes 10 min till she is asleep. i just give her a bottle of water and she seems to be losing interest. we have been doing this for four days now and lastnight she only woke up 4 times, which is a huge change from 8-10. things seem to get better everynight so stick in there!!!!!
Kaydence's mum sara

Offline luann53051

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Re: 4 month old and ending night feeding....4 hour EASY
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2006, 18:47:54 pm »
Wow!  Giving a bottle of water!  I guess I thought about that once, but decided against it.  I may try it tonight.

Laura