completely lost/ 5 mo. old

[neon]

hi

i'm very lost! i'm trying to follow  the EASY routine from the very beginning. somehow it started to slip about month and a half ago. my son (now 5 months old) started waking up at 5:30 am and couldn't settle without feeding. i suspected it's the 4 months growth spurt, so i didn't mind- for a couple of days. then it became routine and he started demanding getting up by then. i just took him to my bed and most of the times it made him sleep till 6:30, sometimes 7.
But then he started waking up even earlier, at 4am. I tried to to the w2s, but because due to some unfortunate twist of events (such as my alarm not working etc etc) i did that a bit chaotic. In result he wake up around 2am and then 4 am. I tried the w2s routine again, waking him up around 1am. He still wakes up at 4 then.
What makes me more frustrated is that when he was approximately 4 months old I followed the advice I found onthis board: I started putting him to sleep between 7 and 8pm. It worked miraculously -turns out that previously I kept him overtired. But shortly after he started waking up around 5. And in the past two days he doens't fall asleep well anmore. Patting and pu/pd seem to upset him moe. He doesn't scream anymore: he cries desperately and is utterly upset. Today i gave up and used a pacifier, after some persuasion he finally fell asleep. I feel I keep missing hints and doing everything wrong, I just can't put my finger on it so I hope maybe I can find advice here.


How old is your child?  5 months
What’s his/her daily routine? 

4:00 wake up, feed
4:30ish put back to sleep, sleep for 30 min to 1 hr
5:30 cries, paci and i take him to my bed, sometimes he sleeps
between 6-7 “proper” getting up
6:30 7ish feed
(around 8-9 feed in the past three weeks)
10:00 feed
10:10- sleep for 40min to 1 hr (sometimes. he skips that sleep. he doesn't seem sleepy at all, even if i try to sothe him).
11:30 feed (breast)
12-2,3 pm walk, most of it sleeps, sometimes a feed around 2
4:30 feed
17-18 walk, sleep
7ish bath, dancing , book reading, between 7:40 and 8 bed, sleep by 8:30
10:30 df ( skipped the df last night and he woke up at 1)


What’s nap routine? well sometimes it seems he can't nap if he's not in the buggy on a walk.
How long are naps? from 40 minutes to 2, even 3 hours!
What's bedtime routine? Time?    7 pm bath, then a bit of cam music, cuddling, a few pages of a book  and bed btw. 7:30 and 8.
Do you bottle or breastfed??  breastfed- used to df with formula, but for the past 2 days he refuses to take it and i'm sticking to breast
How much? or how long? sometimes he ifinishes after 10 minutes, other times he needs even 30 minutes to be happy.
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) mostly one
How many wakes per night? 2
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? when he wake up the first time i feed him and he falls asleep immediately after. the 4 am waking is tricky, he can sty up for even an 1.5 hr, crying . sometimes i need to feed him then as well, lately i try to soothe him with paci.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? he'smore fussy/ on the verge of screaming and crying. he starts crying louder when he notices me, it looks like he's stretching his arms asking me take him.
What have you tried to settle??  breastfeed. paci. patting, shusshing. every of those methods worked at times, at times failed.
What do you do for A time and how long is it? weeeeel: we play with toys, listen to music and dance. i usually leave him a bit "alone" every 20-30 minutes or so to do my own thing, but only for very short periods (10 minutes or so) (and i'm around him anyway)
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? he had his first teeeth a month ago, i think right now it's nothing going on.
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) cereal no, but veggie soups and some fruit, 1, sometimes 2 times a day. It was bc he doubled his birth weight at 4 months and his dr suggested it would be good to start him on solids.
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? not really. i give him the paci sometimes, but he's not much of a fan, sometimes he rejects it.
Do they have a lovie? not yet

this is such a long post but i tried to write all i could since i am so confused myself (also, english is my 2nd language and it's hard to be brief for me). personally i feel he's eating to often for being such a big well developing baby, sleeping to long when we're having those long walks. also, it might be a factor that he is a reflux baby and i got him used to carrying all the time (since it was good when i was holding in up) and frequent feeds.  frankly i have no idea how to change it all. 

sorry for this ridiculously long post

[Wiki]

Hopefully one of the mods will be along to give you some advice, but I can tell you, you are not alone!
My LO is 5 months this weekend, and has been waking up any time between 5-6am for the last 5 weeks. He previously would sleep through until at least 6-6.30am. Recently he's also started waking in the night for food - he is messing with bottles in the day, and catching up at night - AND he sometimes will then get up at 5am too. You are braver than I am, I just get up and start the day at 5am, instead of trying to get him back to sleep, as he is wide awake and happy to see me and get up...

I wish I had some answers but I am struggling too...

[Colin Macs Mom]

Hi Neon,

Welcome to BW!! Sorry to hear that you're having a bit of a struggle but I think we can get you straightened out. A few follow up questions - Am I correct in understanding that your lo is awake for sometimes 4+ hours? Also, it doesn't look like you do a regular night feed, is that right? If he on medication for the reflux? Also, are you feeding any solids that might be causing gas or stomach upset?

4+ hours is far too long for a 5 mo old to be awake, I suspect that your lo is still overtired. And at 5 mo. it is likely that he still needs a night feed so hunger could very well be a factor too. My DS has reflux as well, so if the more frequent feeds help him then by all means keep doing that. How you are treating the reflux though might also be affecting his waking. Have you elevated one end of the mattress?

Sorry for the additional questions but it's important to pinpoint everything!

[neon]

Wiki, I've read your posts! I'm certainly not brave for trying to get him to sleep in the morning. You seem to be the brave one for facing the day at such an ungodly hour! I hope we both figure out how to make our babies enjoy morning sleep.

Colin's Mom, thank you!

Answers to your questions. Yes, sometimes during the day he is 4+ hours awake. I'm also afraid I have no idea how to get him to sleep in the am hours. I must search around the nap board for advice I think.

I do a regular night feed, every day except the last night and tonight i think i'll skip it too, secretly I hope to confuse him and then bring the regular DF back. Usually he ate 8 oz +as much as he wanted from the breast. That was around 11, and that's why the 2 am feed seems to be much too early to be realy hunger. Or am I wrong?

As for the reflux, the frequent feeds never help too much. My guess is (and that's also my dr's suspicion) that he simply loves to eat, and he really eats a lot- and then it all comes up.  The worst thing in reflux was that he was in pain- after he medicine it got much better, so I try not to worry too much. His mattress is elevated.

And yes to the solid food question- some of the vegetables I think can cause stomach problems. I didn't notice any significant problems here, but I'll see maybe I'll keep his diet"safe" for a while to see.

 

[Colin Macs Mom]

Neon,

My DS has always been a wonderful napper so I'm not much good with nap advice so checking out the nap board might help as well for those long stages in the am. 4+ is definitely too long at 5 mo. and I bet that's really contributing to the wakings with overtiredness.

You're right to think that the 2am feed seems suspicious if he's taking a large feed at 11. How much does he eat at 2? If it's also a full feed, then he's not getting enough during the day.

He might just love to eat, but reflux babies often get relief from a feed - the liquid soothes the throat. Refluxers will often want to "snack" (small feeds often throughout the day) or sometimes will eat as much as you offer because it feels good. And like you say, then it all comes up.    My advice to you is to try and get him on track with feeds. It might be rough for a couple of days, but if you stop offering so often he will get the idea that "this is when I eat" and he will take more at each feeding. You don't have a lot of consistency right now and I think that's part of the problem too. You're slowly getting into an on-demand routine and I don't think that you want that. This is what I would suggest you shoot for, or something similar -

7:00 wake up and feed
8:00 breakfast solids
9:00 nap
11:00 wake up and feed
12:00 lunch solids (if you're up to 3 meals) then your walk
13:30 (or so depending on how long he can stay awake) nap
15:30 wake up and feed
17:30 catnap
18:00 wake and dinner solids
19:00 bath, dancing, book reading
19:30 - 20:00 bedtime
22:30 dreamfeed

That's great that you have his mattress elevated, I wouldn't think that he's having trouble with the reflux at night then. As far as the food goes, I would definitely stick with safe stuff for a week or two and see if that makes a difference - just in case.

[Wiki]

Neon, it was 5am this morning, after 6.10 and 6.25 in the last two days. The only thing I can pinpoint is daytime sleep. He slept badly yesterday, about 3.75 hours total. The two days before, as I was SO tired, I let him sleep whatever in the day - he did 4.5 hours or so. Both the following mornings, he was up after 6am. So I'm wondering, if he is due 15 hours sleep at this age, and can't do more than 11/11.5 at night, that he needs 4 hours+ during the day. Am trying to experiment today but am out and about a lot in the car visiting family.

Caspar can stay awake MAX 3 hours, usually 2.5 or 2.75...4 hours he would be in meltdown.

Hang in there!

[neon]

Colin Mac's Mom, thank you! I'm trying to adapt the schedule you put together for me. I agree I have to make the feeds more regular and not every two hours. But it's haaard. All of the sudden it seems hehas another growth sput? He's five and a half now, is it possible around this time? Anyway, it's all crazy here nowadays. He eats and then, fifteen min later, he wants food again. Then he seems satisfied- except today where i had to feed him three times in a row. Maybe it was because of the heat. I'd give him some tea/juice but he refuses the bottle, it was never a problem untill now.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to remain unfrustrated. As for now I'm making peace with his night wakings. I must gather some good vibes before starting to do something about it. W2S seems not to be working.

Wiki, Caspar falls asleep after 3 hours? Syd seems to be tired at some point but he doesn't want to fall asleep and simply... goes on. He is not too fussy even Or maybe am I mistaking his tiredness with hunger? Sometimes I feel like I'm taking the easiest way, ugh. But a while ago I was able to alm him with a paci, now he hates it. He hates anything in his mouth, except his fingers toes or my breast.

Oi, so are you getting up at 5?  Myabe you could try what I do- seems to be working just fine and we both get extra sleep: I put him next to me in my bed.And close my eyes, but I peek what he's doing (but so he doesn't see I'm looking) he cries for about 10-15 minutes and I'm always about to get up- but mostly he abruptly stops cryig and falls asleep. It's a very quick process then, and it makes me giggle to be frank. Then we sleep till 6:30 or 7 (today till 8 almost!) which is a waking time I can handle.

You hang in there too! Hugs!

[Colin Macs Mom]

YAY NEON!! Good for you, sounds like you're starting to make some progress. It's hard, I know. EASY is not all that easy but the work does pay off. It does sound like maybe he's having a growth spurt though. They have a big one at 6 mo. so perhaps he's getting his a little early. I would try and get him to take a little more at each feed, and if that doesn't work then just take it slow in trying to adjust the times since if he is having a spurt, he really needs it.

As far as the frustration goes, it hard to avoid.    Do you get some relief from your DH or anyone else? Just make sure that you are getting some Y time each day and have an extra cup of coffee or whatever your vice is. 

How long have you been doing wake to sleep? It can take a week or two to kick in sometimes.

[neon]

O, a week or two for w2s? I thought it more immediate and got discouraged!
Frustration is the worst. That's why I'm trying to accept this situation, but also change it. My fiance is faaaar away, and for months, so I'm more or less alone with it all, but- baby gets better and better with playing alone for some good 15 min. Which is aweeeeesome! The hard part comes when my parents are helping out- they always discourage my EASY attempts and advocate feeding Syd a lot. When you're tired and the baby screams you just can't handle "advice" and give in.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Nothing with a lo is immediate, believe me. I sure wish it was though! So stick with the w2s and you should see results. Do you know what personality type your lo is?

You definitely have the right attitude about accepting the situation but trying to change it. Unfortunately the changing part requires effort, perserverance, patience, confidence and more effort - all things that you don't have energy for when you're sleep deprived! It can be so hard to find the motivation to do it all, but like a lot of things in life, grit your teeth and get through it the best you can and the results will be fantastic! I'm so sorry to hear that your fiancee isn't there to help right now, that must be rough.    But, that's really great that at 5 mo. your lo will play alone for 15 min!! At 9 mo. my lo will only do that sometimes. But I guess that's probably at least partially my fault since I can hardly resist him. 

Back to the topic though, I know how hard it is but I would really try and stand up to your parents about how you want to raise your child. They need to respect your role and authority as a parent and if you choose to use BW then so be it. I don't know how much they're there to help you, but if it's fairly often you will end up with a host of other problems with your lo that I'm sure you don't want to try and work out in addition to sleeping. Have you checked out the Relationships board yet? There's are TOOOOONNNNS of posts on there about in-laws and issues with them.

[neon]

ha, it's always good to be a little selfish and just demand a bit of free time! but mostly when you can choose between a 30 min nap and a bunch of smiles and giggles with your baby it's always the second option winning  i can't blame you either, such a sweet boy you have!
my cousin who has 5 children told me that the two first kids take all of your time because they know they can get it all. the next kids are more decent with that, hee.
i don't really want to dig around relationship stuff. i know it hardly ever changes anything, adn i know i just need to stick to what i'm doing. i'll get around, the less i think about it the best. giving in happens when there's too much tiredness and buzz... that's why i'm so glad you could propose me a routine, really- i know it's not one of "my wicked ideas" then and i can stick to it, if you know what i mean!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Yeah, I do know what you mean... my DS is very spirited and sleeping has been a real challenge for us to say the least. I find it rather comical that I was asked to be a mod on this board.... but like a lot of things I find it a lot easier to help people with their problems than my own. It's hard sometimes to see what needs fixing in your own situation. I've found that other people's input has been invaluable!!

[Wiki]

Hope things are getting better for you. We had 6.10am today (he woke at 5.18am but I willed him back to sleep through the wall and it seemed to work) but 5.30am yesterday. Funnily enough, I finally made it to the cranial osteopath today and she said he had a build up of tension in his left side, that has been increasing since his 4 month growth spurt (which is exactly when all this weird stuff started) and that it might be contributing to the waking - like sleeping in a funny position and getting a stiff neck. I had a long back to back labour and that might have twisted him...anyway, we'll see, gotta run he's awake from catnap so got to set up the bath!

[neon]

hey, as i posted in the other thread, we are having major issues heh. a week ago we went for a vacation and he started waking up every hour. there was lots of tears and screams and i just took him to sleep with me. wasn't easy. and yesterday it turned out he's teething again, so doh! i am trying to resist all good advice of my family (since it NEVER works). i'm massaging his gums and giving him mild pain medication, some homeopathic drops, and i am absolutely and totall tired. BUT i am no longer as ed off at night. really, after he woke up 8 times in a row anytyhing is ok with me.

i'll this teething time to really think of  aplan and convince myself what i wnat/not wnat to do.

aha, and Colin's Mom, I managed the daily plan- it's much better now. At day, at least! Tho the early morning nap doesn't work out sometimes.

best to you both, cheers!

[Colin Macs Mom]

So glad to hear that you have improvement at least for the daytime!    Sorry to hear about the teething though... that can majorly screw things up. Have you been giving motrin? That seems to last longer than Tylenol.

And about the waking 8 times in a row - I have been there too.    There aren't even words to describe how unfun that is. But, it does put things in perspective eh? If Colin wakes once or twice we're fine with that!