waking at 4 am, why?????

[lauraj79]

Hi
I am new here, just found it. my lo has been on EASY since 6 weeks. he is now 19 weeks. he is bottlefed, not needing solids yet and just recently started feeding 4 hourly (6-8 oz a feed). his first bottle is 8 am, last at 8 pm (then wakes for 5th feed at 12 am). he has all his naps in his cot,and always settles himself to sleep, no longer need to shh/pat him, havent for ages. But he STILL wakes 4-5 hours after his last feed (eg 4 am or so) not hungry, not in pain, not cold or overly wet nappy, got black out blinds, live in quiet area, so im at a loss. tried settling him with water/dummy but no help. tried leaving him as he starts by just chatting but his sister aged 3 is in next room and if his cries esculate he will wake her, so have taken to putting him in my bed where he falls fast asleep till 6-7 am. want to get out of this. also, i really want to change his routine so he has his first bottle at 7 am and bedtime botle at 7pm. but if i offer him milk at 7am he wont take it, but wants it at 8. this morning it was 8.30 am which will mean having to put him to bed after his 8.30pm feed tonight (far too late, he gets tetchy by 7pm) he used to feed 3 hourly, 5 oz every 3 hours and 2 bottles at night, a df at 10pm and woke at 2 am for feed but now hes four hourly thats changed, he just has the one bottle. i have just ordered traceys second book from infancy to toddlerhood as find the secrets one a little young for charlie now and not detailed enough. can anyone advise me, please?
many thanx laura

[annary]

Hi laura, my name is Anna. I seem to have a similar problem. I think we are not alone! I am trying to wean Thomas off his 4 am bottle as I think he only thinks he is hungry....But you dont have that problem. I can only suggest you look at a posting entiteld 10 reasons why babies wake (other than hunger) Look on your login box and click on new postings, or go to sleep section. Have a look. But it sounds to me, as he wakes up at the same time every night that is a habit. Have you tried this wake to sleep thing, when you go in an hour before this waking time ie 2 am (god give you strength!!!) gently wake him and then settle him again. Cant say I have tried, but there are wman who swear by it. I would just be scared that I would not be able to settle him again. Anyway worth a try.
Good luck. Let me know how it goes.
Cheerio Anna

[Colin Macs Mom]

Just to clarify, with the wake to sleep technique, you should not actually wake the lo. You want to make them stir but not fully wake. This resets their sleep cycles. I have never needed to do this myself, but you're right Anna, many people swear by it!

Laura, I was actually going to suggest that you try wake to sleep. It sounds to me like this is a habitual waking. Wake to sleep would likely be the best way to break the habit.

[lauraj79]

Thanks for that, will try that tonight and see...... noticed today hes teething but im pretty sure hes not in pain at the 4am waking, think it is habit and v.keen to break it!!!
cant wait to get the new bw book, hoping it will give me some pointers.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Keep us posted!! Remember that wake to sleep can sometimes take a few days, a week or a little longer before you see results, so just stick with it!

[lauraj79]

Hiya
Thought i would update you. charlie had his bottle at 11pm last night, i went in at 2.30 am to stir him, he then woke at 4 am (as predicted he may) but a bit better as he usually wakes 4 hours after his last fed eg should of been 3 am. he shouted and chatted but didnt cry, so i left him 15 mins, went in and stroked him, told him its bedtime, left room. he fussed abit, but never once cried (not proper crying iykwim?) kept going back to repeat, he fell asleep at 5 am, then woke at 6 am when i got him up, as he went to bed at 7pm lst night, so i thought 6 am is fair enough really. should i continue with wake to sleep tonight, or leave well alone? if i do should i go in 3 hours after his last feed (usually wakes after 4 hours) or go in an hour before he woke this morning, eg he woke at 4, shall i go in at 3 am? sorry, that was rubbish explaining! its 7 am so im not at my best yet!!!
THANKYOU so much for your help so far. wish i had found this website months ago, its fab and soooo nice and friendly
fingers crossed for tonight, laura

[Colin Macs Mom]

Hi Laura,

If he's not really proper crying and is just fussing, I would leave him and not go in at all. That will help him learn to self-sooth and settle on his own. It will take some time, but it's soooooo great once they get it.    Of course, do go in and help him if he does start proper crying. But be sure it's a real cry and not a mantra cry.

[lauraj79]

Hi
Ok, well last night wasnt great, at all. i w2s at 2.20 am, he woke at 4 am, really crying, wouldnt settle with anything, seemed genuinly hungry, displaying all the signs he usually does when starving, desperate cry, eating his hands, sucking dummy but then spitting it out. i offed him water and he had an 0z then got cross it wasnt milk, so i thought maybe he is hungry, and as tracey says its important to listen to your baby and respond to his needs if he is really upset, so i traipsed downstairs and fell over dd`s barbie stuff, did his milk 9too hot, had to cool it down, grrrr) came up and he was in a real state, seemed starving, had 1 oz then refused rest, put him down and didnt hear a thing till 6.30 am when he was chatting to his cot mobile and eating his feet!!!!  what now!!!!  should i offer milk again or is this a habit that needs discouraging. BTW, he NEVER takes his first feed well, reagardless of if he last fed at 11pm or 4 am. here is a typical day;
6.30-up
E- 3oz at 8 am
S-9am (1 hour)
E- 11.15- 7 oz, then 1-2 cubes puree
S- 12.00 (2 hours 15 mins)
E- 3ish- 7 oz
S- 4.45 (30 mins)
E- 7pm, 8 oz
7.30pm bed
10.30/11pm 8 oz

this morning i introduced 1 cube fruit/rice after his first bottle which he gobbled to see if it might help? started weaning last week, he is 20 weeks tomorrow.
any thoughts??
laura, charlie angel/touchy baby --- a mixture of both!!!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Actually, the solids might only make things worse. Did you speak to his doc/ped first? It's very important to be absolutely sure the lo is ready for solids before you begin. They can cause tummy upset, gas, etc. and that will affect night sleep. It's a myth that solids will help them sleep better at night - there's not a lot of calories in it so it doesn't sustain them.

[lauraj79]

Hiya
yeh my health visitor advised solids at 17 weeks!! but i held off till 19 weeks as charlie was taking 8 oz every 3 hours at night and is a big boy but his weight was slowing down as opposed to his height and he was unsettled with hunger. i dont offer any solids at tea yet, wont for a while. bad night last night, he had feed at 10.30pm, woke again at 2 am wouldnt settle, tried usual water, dummy but again he seemed hungry. offered milk and he took 2 oz then slept till 5 am, took 1 oz then slept till 7am. i am really at a loss, seem to be going backwards TBH. he has 3 1/2 hours sleep in day, is that ok? broke into 3 naps. i got the impression he was playing up a bitcos he was laughing as soon as i came in his room? do you think i ought to try pu/pd if he gets really upset. i`ve never done this and not very clear on it? although i was under the impression its for babies who cant self settle, which he can, but doesnt want to at night!!!!! the prob is dd is in next room so i dont leave him to shout/fuss for long as dont want them both up. often in the day he shouts for 20 mins before a sleep in his cot but i can leave him them as dd is up. so i do wonder if im jumping to him too quick at times. but on the other hand he really does seem hungry in the night. but i guess he cant be if he has 2 oz!!! its very frustrating. because i dont know why, therfore its hard to solve? dd never self soothed so i knew why she woke at night and that was easy to solve, pu/pd and light controlled crying but this little man has stopped me in my tracks!! according to traceys quiz he is mostly an angel baby, and a touchy one too. i know theres no magic answer, and its possible i will have to just ride it out and hope its a phase, but just needing a little guidace

[Colin Macs Mom]

It does sound like some PU/PD might be in order. I can't give you much advice in that department since it never worked for us. The PU/PD board is really great though, the mods are quite experienced and there's some good stickies, especially the 10 reasons why PU/PD won't work.

[llinosjones]

i think its a stage babies go through my boy is  4months and has started waking every nite for no reason but as soon as he gets on me to comfort him he falls back asleep???but staerts crying if i put him back down!!! but the worst thing with me is that he wont go to his father when he is tierd so im on my own.

[teezee]

i know that i started solids early and although i didn't realize it right away (as i thought the umpteen night wakings were do to hunger... ) i fed her when really it was gas from the solids..she would wake up uncomfortable and the only things that would soothe her was to feed..of which sometimes would take a large feeding other times not..it seems that feeding will soothe the belly (if just for short term hence all the wakings..) so they can get back to sleep. the other thing is that b/c my lo was waking to feed so much at night (again, or so i thought) even after i stopped the solids and she was back to feeling less gassy - she would still wake at night to feed as i had started a very bad habit - so bad that she basically got her day and night feeds mixed up and was hardly taken anything as far as feeding during the day..it was such a mess and took what felt like forever to straighten out!!

anyway, i too had my dr suggest she was ready for solids - and i went with it although i had heard so many things about NOT starting solids early..i wish i would have waited til six months now. the rice/or any cereal for that matter really can cause a lot of gas and/or constipation if their bellies and digestive systems aren't ready for them - and more times than not they aren't ready at that point. don't know why i was soo eager for her 'to grow' up...now she's almost a yr and i want her little again...hth.

it does sound that your lo may need some sleep training and i agree that pu/pd is prob the way to go. although if lo is in pain no amount of pu/pd will work. so deal with one thing at a time and make sure that pain is not in the equation. also does your lo have  lovey - perhaps with your scent on it?? that may help..