Author Topic: sleeping through the night (Read 4342 times)

nicolanorway · « **on:** May 25, 2006, 18:03:49 pm »

hey i was wondering if anybody has some advice-experience, my ds is now 4mths and weighs 16lbs. me and my dh have been trying to get him to sleep through the night. he normally wakes at 2am and 4am and then again at 5am ready to start his day, my dh now wakes up with him at 2 and at 4am and i wake up at 5am and feed him (he is ebf). when i used to feed him at 4am he didn't really take alot and even at 5am he only feeds from one breast for about 10mins. i was just wondering if this is too much to expect from one so little, would anybody recommend feeding at 4am and trying to get him back to sleep. at 5am he is so awake and none of my attempts at getting him to sleep again seem to work.
his day is something like this-
E5am (try to get him to sleep again, but to no avail)
A5.30 (nappy change , toys etc)
E6am
S7am (normally about 45mins)
A8am (nappy change, toys
E9am (both breasts)
A 9.30am
S11am (normally 1.5hrs)
E1pm (both breasts)
A1.30pm
S3pm (another long nap)
E5pm (both breasts)
A5.40pm
S (we are trying to get a catnap in about 5.45pm but hasn't as of yet)
6.30 bedtime routrine, bath, massage, pj's, singing, bf on both breasts.
S7.30ish
DF about 10.30 (most times on both breast again)
2am awake, normally take daddy 30mins to resettle
4am same again 30mins to resettle
5am good morning!!

thanks for any pointers, nicola mum to christian

Harvey and Theos Mam · « **Reply #1 on:** May 26, 2006, 08:10:09 am »

Couldn't you try feeding him at 2am and see how long he settles down for then. If he is waking at 2 and 4am but not getting anything then he will be very hungry at 5am. He could be hungry at 2am and just keep rewaking for food.

He may sleep until 6-7am if he has a 2am feed. He is waking for a reason and hunger could well be it. And you may have a better sleep for it.

deenz · « **Reply #2 on:** May 26, 2006, 08:37:39 am »

What is he doing at 5am when he wakes up? Crying? Just playing around? My dd2 regularly wakes up around 5am for a bit of a chat, but then falls back asleep til nearer 7am (or we wake her then). It's a time when they come into a light sleep, so I believe it's common to wake up at this time.

daisymelan · « **Reply #3 on:** May 26, 2006, 11:46:26 am »

It almost seems like he's getting too much daytime sleep for his age and therefore he wakes up early. Unfortunately, I do not have any ideas how to fix this. I would suggest trying a general sleep board and post your routine there. You may find someone will offer some good suggestions for getting the wake up time a little later. That way you won't be trying for 4 naps a day.

Good luck.

Harvey and Theos Mam · « **Reply #4 on:** May 26, 2006, 20:58:37 pm »

I now remember reading in the 3rd book that between the age of 4-6 months babies tend to wake between 5-6am and it then depends on how the parent handles it. Whether or not they get up with the baby or leave them to babble and then go back to sleep.

It also says that this is the time that we can fall into the "accidental parenting" pit as we become too complacent and stop watching our LO's cues.

SO if your LO is happy to be in his cot awake @ 5am then maybe you should see if he will fall back to sleep after a little while. But like i said, if it is really hunger early on then maybe a short feed could help in the short term.

Every few days my ds wakes around 3am and needs a feed then he does well for a good few days and sleeps through until 6-7 before needing a feed. I think he just has days where he hasn't quite eaten enough and he is a big baby too.

nicolanorway · « **Reply #5 on:** May 29, 2006, 16:42:29 pm »

thankyou for your help, i have been feeding when he awakens, which is now between 3 and 4. he has started sleeping to about 5.30-6am, which is a result for us. still can't get him to sleep longer though.
nicola, mum to christian

RachelC · « **Reply #6 on:** May 29, 2006, 23:16:30 pm »

Would you like us to move this to the Sleep boards?

nicolanorway · « **Reply #7 on:** May 30, 2006, 07:27:27 am »

yes please. he did actually sleep through the night last night, he had only 3 hrs of day time sleep. maybe that is the solution or it could merely be kuck. i am excited to see how tonight goes.
thanks, nicola

teezee · « **Reply #8 on:** May 30, 2006, 13:18:43 pm »

keep us posted on how things are progressing

nicolanorway · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2006, 06:18:45 am »

hey you all,
looks like it was just luck. had a bad day followed by a bad night. after spendingfour hrs just to get him to sleep more than 20 mins he awoke at 12.3o, 1.30 and then at 4.30, at which point i took him into my bed (very bad, i know). he slept and feed till 6am. he also has grren poo with foam on the top, could this be teething? i really don't know about the poo thing, maybe i should ask the health visitor? if you ahve any experience with green poo, let me know.
thank, nicola

rosie and joe's mummy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2006, 18:08:32 pm »

the poo thing is normal or at least rosie did that a few times and it didn't really mean anything. she's 24 weeks now and still no teeth!

what do you /daddy do in the night to settle? and i presume you're not feeding at the 2 am or 4 am wakings?

Harvey and Theos Mam · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2006, 18:36:41 pm »

My m/w said that green poo meant wind or not feeling too well. So maybe your LO is a little under the weather or like you said, perhaps teething.

nicolanorway · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2006, 19:21:00 pm »

he has stopped with the 2am waking and i now feed him at 4am, though he still wakes up at 5ish. i get so worried that he is hungry. he is a very windy baby and it is extremely difficult to get wind out of him. he can still burp upto 3 hrs from his last feed. we do shush/pat with him but it doesn't always work, sometimes we walk with him and hum. i have thought about giving him some baby porridge (this is the only baby food in norway), but i am worried that will just add more problems to the equations and he his gaining weight nicely. is it just too much to expect him to sleep through?

deenz · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2006, 20:29:27 pm »

I think that green frothy poo has something to do with drinking too much foremilk.. will have a check about that.

It sounds like you've had some improvements though! It is reasonable that he might still need that 4am feed at his age, but then his waking at 5am will not be out of hunger.

I sometimes found that having tummy time just before a feed and then a little while after, helped to bring up more wind. The exertion seems to help them get rid of it (out either end!!).

Starting solids at this age will not help with any digestive issues, his system is not mature enough to handle it. And I think the vast majority of people find it has no effect on night wakings. (Starting solids early could in fact make it worse, with tummy troubles etc upsetting him).

nicolanorway · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2006, 21:12:22 pm »

thanks denise,
i have decieded (and are adament) that i will feed him at 4am amd then try with all my might to get to sleep or atleast that he is in his room with the blind down till 7am. he had two long naps today (app. 1.5hrs) and refused his catnap as usual which i know he needs. i have just DFed him and we will just have to see how it goes.
thanks to you and everyone else for the support and advise.
nicola

teezee · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2006, 03:36:28 am »

if your lo has a lot of gas - just a thought - have you tried eliminating anything out of your diet to see if your lo perhaps has a sensitivity to something?? if your lo isn't comfortable it will be hard for him to get through night time sleep cycles as he is more active and moving throughout the day once in bed he isn't moving much so the gas will get worse. of course give gripe water or other gas drops but it may go away all together with if it is something in your diet...just speaking from the experience i had with my lo - for me it was 11 months without caffiene and still i can't have very much without giving her problems..it could be dairy, caffeine, hot/spicy foods, gassy foods...if you want to try it - drop something for a week and see how lo is doing...good luck!

teezee · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2006, 03:37:24 am »

oh and if lo already has gas and discomfort - starting solids early is NOT the way to go as his digestive system will surely have issues dealing with the solids..again..just speaking from horrible experiences... $:-\$

nicolanorway · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2006, 05:51:52 am »

i am so happy, he slept until 5am then fed and i had to set my alarm for 7am to wake him (want to keep on track with 4mth E.A.S.Y.). this is now two nights out three we have had sucess!!!! about the gas, i think it is chocolate but i am reluctent to admit it. life withiut chocolate, arggghh. didn't eat any yesterday and i suppose i am seeing the results. thanks again u all. will keep you pposted.

Harvey and Theos Mam · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2006, 08:34:39 am »

That is great news, so glad you are getting some rest.

He is still only 4 months old so sleeping through isn't a sure thing. My DS has up and down nights, sometimes he will sleep through until 7am but that is rare.
Babies do most of their growing and learning in their sleep so that can interupt their sleep.

Hope this is the start of many a good nights sleep.

deenz · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2006, 09:01:15 am »

Great news!

teezee · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2006, 15:57:33 pm »

congrats! you and your lo are doing wonderful!!

nicolanorway · « **Reply #21 on:** June 01, 2006, 18:26:53 pm »

hey there,
just another question, we started his nighttime routine at 6.45 tonight. dh gave him his bath, massage etc, then i fed him in his room, he started to doze off on the breast so i took it away and tried to burp him. this left him wide awake, i then read a story which he listened to intently, then with the shush/pat for over half an hour. i left him in his room wide awake and happy. dh has now taken over. what sort of method can i use when this situation arises? thanks again and hope i am not prattling on, demanding too much.

teezee · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2006, 20:49:27 pm »

never too much!!

you are just trying to sort things out. you did what was right by not letting lo fall asleep eating. i know from my own exp that it can sometimes be harder to settle lo once you wake when they are falling asleep eating, but in the long run it is worth it. just keep doing what you are doing and shh/pat or just shhing or just patting if both together are too stimulating.

maybe if lo is falling asleep like that again, instead of reading a story just make sure he is awake (by burping, soft talking, etc) rather than reading a story as this in itself may have been too stimulating.

AJs Mom · « **Reply #23 on:** June 01, 2006, 21:23:01 pm »

Please keep in mind that I use a combination routine from BW and another book I've been reading... My DS is 12 weeks, he's been sleeping 7ish-7ish with a DF at 10/10:30ish without a 4am feed for about the past 4-5weeks. He's been a good sleeper since the beginning, but here's what's been working for us. This is his 3-4 month routine that we are moving into...

I breastfeed.

E-7:00
A- after feed
S- 9:00 ish (early morning nap 45 min MAX)
Y

E- 11:00 ish
A- after feed
S- 12:15 ish (long afternoon nap 2-2.25 hours MAX)
Y

E- 2:30 ish
A- after feed
S- 4:30 ish (very small evening nap 15 min MAX) (we've actually phased this out, but it's there if we need it)
Y

E- half feed if necessary (this has been phased out now)
A- after feed or around 5:45 (bath time and massage), then finish feed at 6:15, or full feed if he didn't have the half
S- 7:00 ish
Y

E- 10:00 ish - DF
A- no activity, he's in dreamland!
S- 10:45 ish
Y- (I go to bed)

He used to wake around 4 for a feed then went back to sleep. Sometimes, he wakes around 5:30 and doesn't want to go back to sleep.

The other book stresses how important it is that he not sleep past 5:00 or he'll be tough to put to sleep at 7:00. It also mentions helping him to settle with some cool boiled water if he wakes in the night (can also help with constipation).

Sonja

deenz · « **Reply #24 on:** June 02, 2006, 01:57:49 am »

Nicola - if he's wide awake and happy, then just leave him be (or had he started crying so DH had to take over?).

If the routine mentioned above works, then great, but I know a lot of babies that age need more day time sleep than that still (in fact my 8mo sleeps longer than that sometimes, and does 12hrs roughly over night).

Also, if you are wanting to exclusively bf, then your baby does not need extra water.

nicolanorway · « **Reply #25 on:** June 02, 2006, 18:26:13 pm »

hey you all,
just wanted to update you all on our horrid day, christian (baby) woke at 4am for his feed then slept again till 7am

(i love that bit). then everything went pear shaped during the day, first we did a wind down session with him in the bedroom about 8.45am then dh got him to sleep using his modified shush/pat (shushing and a little rocking in his arms). christian fell alsleep about 9am only to wake up at 9.25am. between us we spent 1.5hrs trying to get him to sleep again (i fed after the 45min mark) and nothing worked. i had made arrangements with the MIL to go out shopping at 11.30am and he fell alsleep in the pram at 12 and slept until 1ish whilst we were in the mall (by the way he had/has a rocking/fed to sleep prop addiction which we are weaning him from). i really didn't want him to fall asleep in the pram. when we got home about 2am, i fed him gave him a little A time then a wind down session, he fell asleep at 3ish and woke 10 mins later. this went on till 5.30 at which time i had given him a napppy change, a short feed and a full massage. at 5.30 i thought sausage to it, and got him up as we were about to have dinner. his little eyes were all red from tiredness and it made my heart bleed. as soon as we ate dinner, we bathed him and i feed him. the feed only lasted 10mins, he was flat out, i tried to burp him but he was just out like a light. i put him in his cot (crib?). he has just woken again, i gave some more infacol (stuff for wind) and let him nurse again as he had taken so little before bedtime. i spoke to him the whole time to keep him awake whilst feeding which resulted in some very annoyed looks from baby (quite funny). i then burped him, wallked a little and put him down whilst shushing and held my hand against his chest, he eventually fell asleep.
i really don't know when to go in to him to help his naps get longer, sometimes he awakens after 30mins,40 mins, 45 mins and sometimes 1hr. it is nice to have people who are in/were in the same boat to discuss this with. we have made progress though wiyth early mornings/night waking. should i post this question/s on props?
thanks again, you lovely mothers.
nicola

teezee · « **Reply #26 on:** June 03, 2006, 02:29:40 am »

seeing as you have made some changes to lo's routine would you mind reposting it? it sounds like lo may have gotten overtired... $:-\$ hope this even goes better than the day..

does he seem uncomfortable? could it be gas??

nicolanorway · « **Reply #27 on:** June 03, 2006, 06:21:22 am »

i am trying to follow the 4 hr EASY, but with modifacations to suit my lo. it goes (on a good day) something like this.
7am E wake and feed (he doesn't normally take that much milk)
7.30 A morning routine, wash, dress, little playing
8am E a little top up
8.45am S we trying to calm him down for a little while by sitting in his room with low lighting, some days he can take 1.5hrs sleep, but it has been 30mins, 40 mins, folllowd by us trying to get him to sleeo again. i think this is gas and have now given up chocolate.
10.30 E both breasts if he'll take them.
11am A out for a walk trying not to let him sleep, toys and singing etc at home
12.30 S if he is tired and we see signs we will try to get him to sleep, this can also be an ordeal, lasting over an hr of shush/pat with lots of 10min naps
2-2.30 E both breasts if he'll take them
3pm A toys, bouncy chair with baby gym
4-5pm S we watch for signs and he can get really grumpy and overtired if his naps have been bad all day, this can sometimes be 1hr if he needs it but i try not to let him really long as it is close to bedtime, he can also skip this nap (yesterday for example)
6pm E try to give him a good feed
6.30-6-45 A depending on his day (rested or not) bathtime, massage, pj's, singing.
7pm E a little top up to make him sleepy although i would like to cut out feeding before sleep completly as it destroys his sleep because the whole wind issue.
7.3o S this can be interupted the first hr or so because he has a burp or fart working it's way round.
10.30-11pm DF
3am-5am E nappy change and right back to bed, this is the progress we have made
7am wake today it was 6am.

christian had/has colic since he was born, he has been treated by a chriopractor and a homopatheic therapist. we did see some improvements and we keep up with the anti-gas massages. i know what i have to do but i suppose i am reluctant, i am not willing to do PU/PD yet, i never know if it is wind he is suffering from so this would be mean to him. he is so used to getting fed before nap/bedtimes and i know if i just stop the feedings and kept at the shush/pat religously it probably would solve our problems. it just requires a lot of willpower and stamina.
see, i should be a mod, i just answered by own questions. it is great having support and i just have to set my mind to doing this.
nicola

teezee · « **Reply #28 on:** June 05, 2006, 19:09:07 pm »

have you noticed any improvement with the lack of chocolate in your diet? have you tried eliminating all caffeine? i know it is hard but may be what is bothering your lo?!

imo opinion your lo needs that feed before sleeping to help get through the night..or even some of the night. i agree that it would be mean to try pu/pd or other sleep training if there may be some undlying pain there..so i think first and foremost that is what you have to figure out.

what else do you do for gas?

nicolanorway · « **Reply #29 on:** June 06, 2006, 16:19:37 pm »

i have stop eating chocolate and only drink 2-3 cups of tea a day, tea has a lot less caffine than coffe (sure, you know that). anyway his night waking are okay now, only up at 4ish and back down after that till app. 6am. that i can live with. now (the last 2 days) he has been a nightmare to get to sleep. i have tried the shush/pat and that was working fine but then yesterday, he objected so much to being put in his cot, he want the breast and if not, then if wanted to sleep in my arms, each time i put him down his little arms and legs went into a frenzy, he is a strong little man and he caught me a few times in the face. we have been walking with him around his bedroom, he then fall asleep and the minute we put him dowm he screams. like they say, 2 steps forward, 1 step back!!!!

teezee · « **Reply #30 on:** June 06, 2006, 19:30:59 pm »

i think the next thing you might want to work on is getting lo to go to sleep on his own. if he can soothe himself to sleep hopefully that other waking he will be able to soothe himself back to sleep too. whatever you feel you can handle though...remember as tracy has said 'start as you mean to go'..

congrats on the accomplishment hope things continue to move forward!!

nicolanorway · « **Reply #31 on:** June 07, 2006, 10:52:18 am »

how would one go about doing that? do you mean, that we should start PU/pd with him? i really don't think i have the nerves for that. during the night he awoke at 5ish, i gave him one breast and he fell back to sleep. at 6.20am, we heard him on the baby monitor and i sent my husband in to get him back too sleep. he came back 30secs later and christian had fallen back to sleep on his own. needless to say we were very shocked. he then woke at 7.50am, i will have to start setting my alarm for 7am!!!! we haven't been teaching him to self-soothe, so i think this was a fluk. a happy fluk.

teezee · « **Reply #32 on:** June 07, 2006, 14:12:52 pm »

i am sorry if you have mentioned this but are you swaddling lo? maybe an aussie swaddle would help also??

you should break the nursing to sleep association or when lo wakes at night he will expect to get fed kwim? imo i would try settling in the crib (at all costs) for night wakings and if lo wakes within the hr - feed as he is hungry - if he sleeps longer than you know that waking wasn't hunger related. just keep up with shh / pat or just one or the other - it may take some time at first but will pay off in the end

teezee · « **Reply #33 on:** June 07, 2006, 14:15:03 pm »

also - be consistant with whatever you choose to do - as tracy says start as you mean to go!

oh and could it be that without having all the caffeine lo is just waking out of habit? and maybe that's why he was able to put himself back to bed last night??..b/c he wasn't uncomfortable?

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Author Topic: sleeping through the night (Read 4342 times)