how much breast milk should i be getting when i pump?

[Susy]

my 13 week old has started to show all the signs of teething- chewing his fist, dribbling, biting down, hitting his face(!). he is now rejecting the breast at some feeds (not the dream/ middle of the night feeds interestingly) and i have been giving him a bottle of pumped milk if this happens. the trouble is, i am unsure how much he should be getting in oz. when i pump it is usually around the 4 oz. mark. is this enough for his age?
also, he still wakes at 3.30/ 4a.m. for feeds. could this be that he is not getting enough during the day?

he was 7lb 12oz. when born and is now 14lb 6oz.

[RachelC]

Hi Susy,
Welcome to TBW 
Pumping varies widely from woman to woman.  Getting 4 oz at a time is great!  It is also normal for an lo of 13 weeks to still be waking at night for a feed.  Is he satisfied after the feed?  Producing wet/dirty diapers?  He's gaining weight! 

HTH

~Rachel

[Harvey and Theos Mam]

Try rubbing a little teething gel onto his gums about half hour before feeding.

[VolleyballMama]

Another thing to remember is that breast milk is FABULOUS at knowing what our babes need. From what I have heard, the consitancy of the milk changes as they get older and to their needs. While some babies could be taking 6 oz of formula (I forget how much they are fed at this time) the bf baby could only be at 4 oz of ebm.... I don't know if that makes sense.

4 oz seems like a good amount to be expressing to me....

[Susy]

thanks so much for the advice! its very reassuring.

[*Nicola*]

Susy

When I was expressing it was usually around the 4oz mark.  I do remember getting more in the morning than later in the day, so this may be something to consider.

HTH x

[deenz]

Susy - here is a link to a 'calculator' on how much you might expect a baby to take of ebm http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html.

Pumps are not as efficient as your ds at getting the milk, so how much you pump is not a good indication of how much milk you have etc. 

Your ds may also be starting to get a bit distracted at feeding time (although probably more common at 5-6m).  With dd1, when she was that age, she would sometimes reject the breast, and I eventually figured that I was just feeding her too often (well, she was taking in too much milk during the night, and therefore was not that hungry during the morning)  .

[Susy]

it seems to be the bedtime (7.30p.m.) feed  that suffers. i think he is tired and sore. i have tried the teething gel 15 mins before and that helps- when he doesn't lick it off my fingers that is!! 

thanks for the advice.

if anyone has the same prob, i found tonight that if i offer him the dummy (pacifier) for a few sucks and then offer the breast again it helps him to feed for a few minutes. don't have a clue why, but it might be useful to try if you have the same problem!

[mommyash220]

Hi Susy! I am having the EXACT problem with my DS.  He's 14 weeks this week and started showing the signs of teething about one week ago.  He's about 14 1/2 pounds and he too is still waking for the 4am feed.  He feeds very well at night--maybe because he's half-asleep --but does not want to BF during the day--if he does it's only for a few minutes.  The thing is though is that he will take the bottle.  I was beginning to think he was trying to wean himself but read somewhere that 3 months is too young. I've tried putting the pacificer in at first and it did help in the beginning but now he just gets way to fussy b/c HE IS HUNGRY and does not want to wait!   I've been pumping, too (I pump anyway at work and he takes 3 bottles/day but on the weekends I try to BF exclusively.)  I don't know what you're situation is, but I was thinking that perhaps he is just used to taking the 3 bottles during the day and the breast at night ?  The amount I pump varies between 4-6 oz.  He usually takes 4 oz but somedays he will take the entire bottle. ?  And I do get more in the mornings than afternoon.
I will have to try the teething gel--had been thinking of that but didn't know if 3 months was too early to teeth.
Another thing, I think he was trying to change to 4 hour eating schedule.  I've been feeding him every 4 hours now and he seems to take the breast better.  For instance, I only had to pump once yesterday.
Let me know what's working out!

[15milner]

I never managed to pump more that about 2 oz in total from both breasts.  So don't worry there.

With regard to the dribbling, chewing etc.  when matthew was doing that when he was that age, i remember readign that the teeth might be starting to move around a bit, but not come through.  The saliva glands are starting to work more, as your child is begining to get the co-ordination to put chew, reach for things etc, so they didn't need to have the saliva glands working as much. KWIM?

alex

[Susy]

my wee one is feeding better now that i have put him on a 4 hour routine. he is exclusively breast fed except for his dream feed, which my husband gives him.

the teething gel has helped a bit.

thanks for the advice guys.

[cminer]

My lo is now 14 wks old and last week started crying after taking in a small amount at the breast.  He would accept a bottle after I would wait and try to feed him a bit later (thinking he was not yet hungry)  but would still cry when trying to breast feed.  He too has been drooling & chewing on his hands.  I had wondered about teething, but was unsure because he is so young.  My Mom said I teethed at 2 1/2 months old.  Sure enough, yesterday I noticed some pearly whites starting to surface!  I hope that the tooth fairy's visit doesn't last much longer, because she has had an unpleasant stay.  My lo does not scream at the breast at night when he wakes to eat (about 2am and 5:30am.)  He is fine taking a bottle with breast milk or formula.  He is on a 4 hr EASY (which has been hard to maintain while he has been teething.)  He doesn't seem to be as interested in eating during the day.  He gets about 4 feeds a day when on the 4 hr EASY.  I worry that he isn't getting enough!  He is tired in the past few days. He is easily taking longer naps (1 /12 hrs in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon and 1 hr early evening.)  Normally I have to encourage longer naps with the pat and shush, but right now don't have to do it at all.  He also sleeps 8pm to 8am overnight with 2 half hour wakes to eat, and a quick visit from me at some point to re-settle him with pat/shush and reswaddle.  I swaddle him with one or both arms free at night and use the pacifier to help him get off to sleep.  It works very well.  He always gets himself unswaddled at night by trying to free his hands, so rather than fight it, I don't always swaddle his hands.  He uses them to self soothe, which I hope he can rely on more once he has better control of his hands. 

I can pump 3-4 oz from my left breast and 2 oz from my right breast (my milk is at its best in the morning.)  My lo usually takes no more than 4-5 oz from a bottle when he has one.  But he likely takes more from the breast (he nurses atleast 30 minutes on one side.)  I think that the amount a woman can pump varies from person to person and also time of day.  Your milk recovers overnight and can usually ge the most & richest in the morning.  I have found that when my lo slept nearly through the night (it happened 3 times) I pumped around 5am and get 7 oz from both breasts (I was very engorged and sore!) 

It has been very upsetting to me when he cries at feeds, and is not eating every 4 hours.  I worry that he is not getting enough or that he is in pain.  I have used the baby teething gel and Tylenol to ease his discomfort.  I have had more success with the Tylenol but don't want to over use it.  I heard that you have to be careful with the teething gel so it does not numb more of their mouth than the gums.  I have used a cotton swab to apply it so he isn't gulping and swallowing it.  I don't want it to numb his tongue and throat.  He was very faithful to eating that often prior to the teething.  I hope we get back on track.  We have not been able to follow EASY as faithfully due to his erractic eating pattern at the moment.  I am trying to go with the flow and hopefully we can get back on track once the tooth fairy leaves! 

[debo620]

Denise-----just wanted to ask you what you did about this?

"well, she was taking in too much milk during the night, and therefore was not that hungry during the morning"
my son--19weeks old is doing this. He was sleeping through from df until 6am feed up to about 3 weeks ago. Now he has taken to eating in the middle of the night and eats alot which of course effects his am feed. I am at a loss as to how to limit or eliminate this feed so that he will start taking in his calories during the day again, he is on 4hr EASY with a df. He is 17lbs and should be able to do a longer stretch in the night.
Any thoughts?
TIA, Deb

[osren]

Hello -
I'm new at this board and a new mum to 5-week old twins. I always wondered whether my boys are getting enough milk (and if they even get to the hind milk at all) when they feed. It's a battle to get them to reach 10 minutes of feeding. Although they are both gaining weight at a great rate, is it alright for them to regularly eat less than 10 minutes at each feeding? When I double pump, I can get 5 oz in about 10 minutes (per breast). I know that's a lot. Does that mean that my boys are actually able to suck that much at each feeding? When we bottle feed them during the day (so I can get some nap time!), they often easily drain 3.5 oz each.


Thanks for any and all comments.

Kathy

[deenz]

Osren - it sounds like your boys are doing great!  Remember they will be more efficient than your pump, so likely they are drinking at least the amount that you can pump.  The main thing is that they are putting on good weight.  Some babies are just quicker than others.  It sounds like you might be one of the lucky ones with babies who feed quickly (especially since you have your hands full with two!!).

Debo620 - I just didn't feed her!  In my dd1's case, it started off as a growth spurt (probably did with you too) but then I believe it became a habit waking, since it was almost the exact same time each night.  Is your son waking around the same time?  If so, I think Tracy says it's likely to be habit rather than hunger.  If you use a pacifier, you could use that instead of feeding.  Or use the other BW techniques such as pat/sh or PU/PD.  It was at that time that I started a routine, and implemented the DF which you are already doing.  If you manage to get him back to sleep without the feed, but then he wakes again within the hour, it's likely that he is actually hungry, and of course then you should feed him.  Oh yes, when I was gradually cutting back the early morning feed (5am ish) with dd1 I would only offer 'half' the feed (one side), and then the other 'half' (other side) when I woke her at 7am.  Luckily for me she was happy enough to go back to sleep after the 'half' feed.  If you are only feeding off one breast per feed, you could try cutting back the amount of time he feeds gradually.  Hope something I've said helps!