Author Topic: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong  (Read 3259 times)

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Offline Cnich

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Chiara is 9 months old and is clearly a "spirited" child, which we love.

But, I find that everyone's advice on how to get her to stop the night feeds and gain more weight doesn't seem to apply.

She had jandice and weight loss early on, coinciding with my post-natal high blood pressure.  I went to a bf clinic and they found that she was eating enough at feeds, which were always brief.

I didn't know how long she should be sleeping and followed the "feed on demand" advice.  Since the bp issue exhausted me and I was bfing, AND she outgrew her bassinet early on, she ended up sleeping with us.  Then we moved to a bigger place, set her crib and room up, but she was teething and I followed the advice of not trying to enforce the new crib all the time since she was in a transition.

My mommy group talked about the BW book and I started reading it and using some of it's methods on April 14 - just before her 8 month mark.  I quickly got her used to having 2 1.5 hr naps and 3 solid food meals per day and no more night bf.  Then we managed to move her into her crib for naps and bedtimes.  BUT, some of the pu/pd sessions looked like the scene from the Helen Keller story where Ann Bancroft is teaching Patty Duke to stop acting like an animal.  I mean, for 20 minutes solid we'd go back down, and down and down - and she was getting madder and madder.  I kept reminding myself "this is not a battle of wills.  I'm teaching her to sleep".  I kept calm and expected that it would last only a week, and that the night wakings would soon end.

The naps got easier, but not always.  I tried to keep them at consistent times, as well as mealtimes.  But, some days she wouldn't eat and her formula intake got better for a while, then fell off again.  She's drpped from the 25th to 10th percentile for weightover the last 4 months, although her height is 75th.  She's learned to crawl, cruise, climb the stairs;has pushed her 4th tooth through; her bowel movements sometimes come after breakfast, sometimes not and tend to be firm.

I've changed my own activity level to accommodate this readjustment period for her - maybe 2 outside activities per week.  I'm trying so hard to  :'( get her on a good routine while being PC.

But evertime I think I've got it and do the same thing the next day - SHE changes and it doesn't work the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th days.

For example, she started spitting up where she never had before, but was taking more formula and food.  Then 3 days ago she was awake for 4 hours during the night, slept in, ate like a pig for breakfast, had a great morning nap, slept only briefly in the car ride after errands, wouldn't go back down for the rest of her nap in her crib, ate a great lunch and dinner, then didn't settle well.  The next day she did the same thing, skipped her afternoon nap (which maybe normal in a 9 month old?) ate well all day and went down for the night 2 hours earlier than normal (8:30) (yes I know that's what time she's supposed to go down, but we have been moving it slowly to earlier bedtimes).  She slept for a blissful 4hours, I fed her 4 oz, then she slept for another 4 hours!  She woke again, I gave her another 4oz and she slept unitl her usual waking time at 7.  So, was the trick to let her skip her afternoon nap, put her to bed earlier, and give her a couple of bottles at night since she seems to be hungry?  She does self soothe and go back to sleep early on in her naps and bedtime.

Not supposed to feed at night, but every weigh in is a disappointment, so if she's hungry, don't I need to feed her?  The book suggests increasing her daytime calories, but she stops eating and I can't force her to eat anymore.  She's underweight (so am I), so I don't know how the common advice plays into that and it was the nurse at the last weigh in that told me to give her a bottle in the middle of the night.  She eats her breakfast fine, so it's not affecting her daily appetite, it seems.

If something were to work for more than a day at a time, I could be guided by that.  But I have been at this for a month and a half.  I have had some success, but then she mixes things up on me again.  Today she woke early, ate poorly and seemed tired at breakfast and didn't want much formual after,so I took the hint and put her down for a nap.  She slept only 30 minutes (usually 1.5), woke happy as a clam (she's always happy!) and still wasn't hungry.  We gave her the usual night bottles last night (2am and 5am) plus another at 7am to try to get her back to sleep for a bit.  She never has a short morning nap - it's one thing I can count on.

I read about acid reflux in the book, and wonder if that's an answer.  She's always been a bad burper, farting and hiccuping alot (even in utero) and her dad has it too.  I keep her up for at least an hour after feedings and she has a small pillow under her sheet.  We have a Dr appt this week to see if they think that could be it.

I really am trying to be consistent, and even when she misses one of her feeds or naps, I keep with the program,  but I can't see not feeding her at night when she's not gaining weight and the controlled crying method has never been something I want to try since she's the type who doesn't "cry herself to better" - she just gets more and more worked up (Spirited, remember?)

We don't know what else to do.

Offline Cnich

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2006, 17:59:13 pm »
I should also add that we tried not feeding her at night, feeding her less, and giving her water instead of formula instead.

Offline Harvey and Theos Mam

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2006, 19:04:51 pm »
Do you write her days routine down? 

Here is an EASY log you can download and if you write everything down then hopefully you will see apattern for the good and bad days and work from there.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=6208.0

I think you have done a great job with everything.

Rhian
 

Offline naunmom

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2006, 21:01:21 pm »
I agree with Harvey/Theos Mam, I also kept a log as well and found that it really helped me to identify patterns and keep track of them i.e. I would go back and say .. hey this day is like Thursday last week ... etc.

Also I modified/simplified the BW log to only track Eat, Wake, Sleep with a column for notes.  It's in EXCEL .. let me know if you are interested and I will be happy to share with you.

Hang in there!  It really is a trial/error process!!

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2006, 22:22:28 pm »
I also think you're doing a great job!  8)

Just want to let you know that with a spirited lo you will definitely spend longer on sleep training, or any other kind of training for that matter. They tend to not like change very much and are very strong-willed. But keep at it, and you WILL see results. I promise!

As far as the feeding goes, I think that you would be best served to take up the question with your lo's doc. My DS has always been a fantastic eater so I don't have a clue what to do when a lo is not gaining properly.  :-\
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Cnich

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2006, 22:48:20 pm »
Thanks for the responses so far.
I have been keeping notes since the day I started - so I know where we've seen improvement and which also frustrates me because I'm not seeing a pattern that I can work from.

For example, if the day after an errand day she was not eating or sleeping well, I would know that that's upsetting her sense of routine.  But sometimes she's fine with it, sometimes not.

She's eating better than 3 weeks ago, but now she's taking more formula (2X) at night.  She's going to bed earlier and easier, but now her naps are a problem and she's up more at night.  She's doing fine in her crib finally, but I'm so tired that at her 5am waking, I take her to bed to feed her.  Nothing seems to make sense.

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2006, 23:06:57 pm »
My DS is also very spirited, and it's taken us a long time to get the hang of what works and what doesn't as far as going out. If we are out during the day for a long time, he usually sleeps better at night, but there's a very fine line between that and too much, which sends everything straight to  :-X.  Also it depends for us on WHERE we go - meaning stimulation for him, people, etc. Have you kept notes of those sort of details? Seems tedious I know but there might be a connection for you too.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Cnich

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 18:07:00 pm »
 ::) Just as an update, that same day we got her to bed early and she slept 6 hours before waking up!!!  Fed her a watered down bottle and she slept for another 3.  But then the next night she wouldn't settle until 11:30, woke several times in the night, didn't want a bottle, didn't want breakfast, then crashed at 6pm for an hour.

AS I said, if I could have 2 days that were the same, I could move forward from there.  I still try to keep her on the usual times, despite what she throws at me in hopes that it's just a blip and she'll settle into a normal routine.

The frustration doesn't end, and I woke up this morning with what I think might be the flu - likely due to my lack of sleep. :'(

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 18:15:48 pm »
It is really hard with a spirited one to keep things on track. Believe me, I know! But it sounds like you're doing great, keep on the routine and she will get it.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline lisi's mum

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 18:22:31 pm »
don't want to throw a spanner into the works, but... can you live with feeding once in the night? My LO went from 75% weight to 25%, and I just couldn't get her to slow down for a bf during the day - the night feed was always much better. Things have changed a bit now but it reassured me a while back that at least she was getting 1 really good feed in a day even if it was in the middle of the night.

Just a thought.
Katie


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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2006, 18:31:03 pm »
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
can't offer any advice just hugs. its so frustrating when you think you've got the ideal routine and the next day is all change. i just persevered with the routine i had with dd cos every time i changed it it made her more unsettled

Offline Cnich

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2006, 18:45:10 pm »
One feeding per night doesn't seem like an option at this point because she won't settle.  By that, I mean she gets into a full-on cry and since she's never been a big cuddler, hold her doesn't work.  I mentioned before that she's also underweight, so denying her food when she clearly seems hungry would seem counterproductive.  She wakes at different times at night ( so doesn't follow habit scenario) and drinks heartily.

Also, any thoughts on adjusting her naps since she seems to have given up the afternoon one - used to be 1/5 hours 2X/day.  She had her morning nap (fought it for half an hour) for exactly 1.5 hours, but what should I do this afternoon?  We have a Dr appt, so she'll likely fall asleep in the car for at least half an hour.  Should I let her sleep more than that, or get her up when we get home?  Her late 1 hour nap yesterday really screwed up her sleep time last night.

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2006, 20:25:14 pm »
Can you please post what your routine is looking at now? That will help a lot.
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Cnich

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2006, 05:12:15 am »
Kinda hard to post my routine since the issue is - there is no routine that I can count on.
...but so far it is:
between 8 or 9 wake up for the day
9-10 breakfast - cereal and fruit and toast, then 4 oz of formula (more if she'll take it)
nap 2 hours after her big wake up (because she shows fatigue at that point) - easy & quick to sleep with a little formula, soother, and music
wake up 1.5 hours after she falls asleep
play - interactive with mom, cruising and playing on her own, sometimes Baby DaVinci DVD
2:30 or 3pm - lunch - vegetable & pasta & fruit if she's still hungry, then 4 oz of formula (more if she'll take it)
4 or 5 - nap - 1.5 hours with a little formula and soother and music- a harder time sleeping (she has now given this nap up
7:30 dinner - meat & veg as suggested by nurse - as much as she wants then 6 to 7 oz of formula (more if she'll take it)
9 or 10 - bedtime (used to be closer to midnight, but we managed to change that) - with a 4 oz formula and soother, a story if she's restless and music - this was a hard process, sometimes taking an hour.
2 or 3 or 4 am - first major wake up for food - 3 or 4 oz
5 or 6 am - second food request - 3 or 4 oz - usually feed her in my bed out of exhaustion
7 am - 'the bribe' on our part to get her to sleep a little longer - 4 oz

That's how it kindof is, but everyday is different.  Tonight she fell asleep during her post-dinner formula at 8pm, slept for an hour then woke up and took almost 45 minutes to get back to sleep.  Who knows what's next?

Offline naunmom

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Re: Everyday is different, so how to know what I'm doing right/wrong
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2006, 06:11:37 am »
You know I just had a thought about your lack of routine.  I went through my old log with ds ... and as I was looking at it I didn't really see that ds was doing things at the same times. Part of the problem for me was I worked part-time so I really couldn't rely on the daycare provider doing things the exact same way I was.  I think what I tried to focused on ... or how I defined my routine was that I always followed an EAS pattern ... and that I could tell by my logs that *in general* ds would be able to stay awake for "x" hours before getting tired.  Of course teething, growth spurts, and being sick would throw things off ... but I didn't focus on exact times so much as I focused more on general patterns i.e. how long he was able to stay awake before he needed a nap, how long he was sleeping for his naps, how long between feeds.  And I tried to keep the order of what I was doing as consistent as possible .. i.e. errands in the AM before lunch ... lunch and watch 1/2 hr TV before wind-down and nap ... bath in the evening before reading/bedtime.  The exact times always had to be tweaked based on how the day was going ... and what was going on with him ...

so I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe you do have a routine ... it's just not a routine based on exact times ... am I making any sense????