N/W support for spirited babies.

[campbellchick]

Hi Cat, I've also heard that NW's can be caused from too much sleep during the day.  It is such a fine line sometimes.   But good idea on trying to leave him a bit longer to settle himself.  I think that was one of my mistakes too - at night, I've rushed in too quickly not wanting dd to wake everyone up and now she is just used to having me there at those particular times.  I think she used to resettle herself sometimes throughout the night, but now she almost never does.  Also, how long do you continue the ssh/pat for when you are settling him to go to bed?  Is he fully asleep before you stop or do you stop when he is still slightly awake?  You usually need to slowly wean from patting him all the way to sleep, then he will learn to go to sleep without that aid. 

[A pair of Charlies]

Hey ladies

As you all have spirited ones thought I'd ask if any of you have encountered a similar thing to my latest problem - I had posted on breastfeeding board but wondered if this could be a spirited thing...

My boy has started wailing and grunting (a wierd combo of the two) while breast feeding. It usually starts about 10 minutes in. Wails begin and most of the time he comes off, has a good rant and then goes on (I offer or he turns head and helps himself). As the feed progresses, the time he feeds and the time he wails gradually switch until I give up. If I offer the other boob, he gorges himself for a bit then the wailing starts again.

I had been thinking he was full so hadn't been offering the other boob initially. I'v been patting him til I was scared I'd break ribs thinking it was really awful wind. I've noticed that the fuss stops when he hits a milky spot in the boob, i.e. gulp gulp gulp without fuss.

He's losing weight (I think)....Arrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Each feed is like having a teenager argue with you between mouthfulls until they're slamming doors and the mother's left at the table in tears.

Could it be a spirited thing? Anyone encountered similar?

A bit concerned that it might be a result of bottle feeds at night (he feeds really quickly). I'd hate to lose that EBM as it's how I avoid the NW!

Argghhhhhh

Charlotte       

[newmum27]

Hey Charlotte,

I bottle feed because I had no other choice (my milk never came in), so I can't be of any help but if you are worried that your LO is losing weight then maybe you should speak to a lactation consultant. I had one come to my house right after DS was born and there was no milk and she tried all sorts of things and had very helpful advice. Maybe the other mothers that breastfeed can be of more help, but it doesn't really sound like a Spirited baby thing to me.

HUGS in the mean time and hope someone can help.

Ruth

[campbellchick]

Hi Charlotte, some babies do go through a really fussy period of eating around this time I have gathered.  I have spoken to lots of people on here about their LO's bobbing on and off while they eat.  If you are worried he isn't getting enough food and might be losing weight, I would definitely start weighing him.  Also, is he still having lots of wet diapers?  It is possible that he is getting frustrated that the milk is coming out slower than it would out of the bottle though.  Can you put him back on a slower teat on the bottle if he is eating so quickly?  This would ensure he still has to work for his food, like he would back on the breast.  I would definitely keep an eye on his weight and wet diapers to see if you think he is getting enough milk in general.  If you still have concerns and have access to a lactation consultant, it would be worth asking for some help.  It could also just be a phase he is going through and may only last a short time, with any luck.

[Kriegs mom]

I think my next move is going to be weaning the shh/pat and then try to tackle unswaddling. I do pat him all the way to sleep, which during the day is usually only 2 min or so, but at bedtime can be up to 10 min. I'm going to try just putting my hand on him instead of patting for a while.
And I feel like I can't win on trying to figure out how long to keep him up between naps and before bed. I honestly don't have a clue if he is OT or UT or what. i guess I'll just have to keep guessing and maybe one day I'll figure it out!

[newmum27]

Hi Kriegs mom,

I think a good rule of thumb used around the site if you are trying to work out if your LO is OT or UT is to look at how long they nap for. If for example they only nap for 30 mins it means OT and if they nap for 45 mins it means UT and you should try and extend their A time by 10-15min over 3 days. I have used this rule up until now and it seems to be working so far.

For example late last week DS was only taking 45 min naps and we extended his A time in the morning and he is now taking better naps and also his night sleep as improved a little too (mind you he is teething at the moment).

HTH,
Ruth

[Kriegs mom]

Ds was doing mostly 45 min naps, which is why the increase in A time. But the slow increase in time wasn't helping at all. Some times it would result in continued 45 min naps, sometimes in 30 min naps. One other mom suggested trying a bigger jump, which is what I have done, and it has gotten his naps more consistently at 1.5 hrs, sometimes with a little help from me. But the thing that's throwing me for a loop is the continuous nw's. I was hoping that by fixing the nap/Atime problem, the nw's would iron out. But after about 2 weeks of trying different things, nothing seems to be working!

[sherry lynn]

Cat,
I'm sorry, I just realized I didn't answer your DF question. If he is waking early for the DF they suggest trying 15 min before he's been waking.
Also I know your LO is still on the younger side but you might want to consider solids for dinner? I didn't do this, I was too scared too since people so strongly suggest waiting around here, but I know another mom who did and that stopped the waking for the DF. That might help your nw as well?
Once we stopped the DF our NW have completely stopped? Even when he goes to bed OT, up from 2-7 YIKES!! Now we are still battling EW, but that's a separate issue

[Kriegs mom]

sherry lynn,
we have a dr's apt next week, so I was going to ask about starting solids soon. I think he is probably about ready. I have thought about the idea of just dropping the df all together, even if that means he wakes up once during the night to feed for a while longer. My dh and I work with college students, so there are times when it would be nice not to have to be back in the house right at 10:30 or so, especially if he is likely to wake him up if I don't feed him. 
thanks for the thoughts. I'm still trying to weigh everything in and see what to tackle first. It seems like just about everything at this point is crumbling and not working, so I'm left confused at where to start!

[sherry lynn]

I'm sorry to hear that. Are the naps falling apart again too??

I wish I would have had the courage to  try to drop the DF all together, but I did not. Let me know how it keeps going.

Def. ask the doc about solids.
In the mean time I would pull that DF up at least 15min? Do you think he will wake earlier in the morning?

[Kriegs mom]

yep, naps are down the hole too. I'm back to 45 min to 1 hr naps. Ahh! I'm going to bring the df back and stick with that for a bit. He has been waking a little earlier anyways, so who knows what will happen.

[sherry lynn]

Do you think he is OT or UT at 45min or 1hr?

[Kriegs mom]

I would normally think OT, b/c I am pushing him way past his tired signs, but then he pops up at that hour mark totally awake and smiling. Then 30 min later he is tired again. I've tried putting him back down for another nap, but with no success. This morning I tried cutting his A time a little, but still woke at the hour-on the dot! He is just a mess right now! Hopefully I'll figure something out.

[sherry lynn]

That's what I was going to say - try 1h45m? What did you try this morning?

[Kriegs mom]

I think it was about 1 hr 50 this morning. Same thing- one hour on the nose he was up and wide awake! Sometimes I just have to laugh...