N/W support for spirited babies.

[SylvieA]

We're still haveing terrible nights. She will not sleep for more than 2hr and occasionally 3hrs. And it starts from putting her down at 7-730. I've tried everything under the sun and nothing works. We're also having a hard time with naps in the past few days. She won't sleep unless I hold her hands. I know she's tired as she has this giggly laugh when she is. If I leave she screams & cries. I thing it's SA. I'm really at the end of my rope with her sleep issues. I don't think she'll ever sttn. She actually slept from 10pm-5an last night but she was in our bed. This is the only way we can get any kind of sleep. So I do this every now and then. The bottle, well she won't take it. I ended up wasting a lot of ebm in the last week. She used to take it, but it had been a while since she had one. I wish she would take it, then I probably would add a few oz or formula to it and see if it makes any difference. Are all spirited babies so determined and hardheaded. I just hope she turns into an angel toddler, I'm just hopeful it can happen.

Charlotte, thanks for the wiwo info. I was wondering if it would work for us, but as I thought she's not ready for that. It's the only thing we didn't try. I think it's just time for me to accept that my LO isn't a great sleeper.

[kjohnson77]

Blake fell asleep on his own last night at 9:00.  He woke at:
11:35
12:10
1:55
2:53
3:45
5:45 - this is when he woke up for good.  I tried to get him to go back to sleep, but he wanted to play.

I gave him a bottle at 6:45 and then breakfast at 8:00.  I layed him down at 9:15 and he was asleep on his own by 9:20, but he only slept until 10:00.  This afternoon I layed him down at about 1:45 and after a screaming fit, he fell asleep on his own at 2:00.  Hopefully I we will have a better night tonight!

[A pair of Charlies]

Hey ladies

Sylvie: don't give up hope.    My DS didn't start STTN until he was 9 or 10 months old and even since then, it's been hit and miss. Colds, coughs, teething, gales, cold snaps, warm snaps...everything seems to affect him and it has been beyond frustrating. Naps play a really key point here too.

I think some LOs just aren't great sleepers. But it doesn't mean giving up all hope. I did GW to teach DS to sleep without me. We regularly regress (illness or any visits to my folks and a strange bed) but right now he's getting himself off to sleep better than ever before. I can leave him to blow raspberrys and chunter and chatter and mantra a little to himself now, and most of the time he will settle down without me staying there. It took time, but we got there.

So there is hope. Honest. And Sherry and Kerrie can probably testify that I have thought that good sleep (and STTN) would NEVER happen for us. But they were right, it did.

Chin up buttercup. 

Charlotte

[Isabellasmummy]

Hi ladies,

Please read my thread, my little girl was horrific waking every 15-45mins all night. but by putting her to bed really early for a week has given me a new child.

xx

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi Krista

Just been reading back over your posts.... so how are things going now? Have the NWs reduced at all and have the days improved?

Reading back, I wonder if he may be really OT. So really keeping on top of those A times would be vital. It's really hard when LOs don't give tired signs until it's too late and their sleep window has closed (I think this may be what's happening) so what Sherry was saying about A times becomes really key. If you can find their 'perfect' A time, stick to that rather than waiting for signs.

I used to cut out certain toys and activities towards the end of Charles' A time so he had a chance to really cool off before WD and bed. Also, up until around 6 months (I think...  ), I kept certain toys out of the room during the first A time - activity mats with toys dangling, flashing lights, noise. I found from experience that this helped. Also kept the first A time shorter than the rest As during the day simply because we got better naps this way. When the first nap goes well, usually puts you all on the right foot for the day. 

How about jotting down your EASY (rough sketch!) and a little about your sleep routines: WD, sleep environment (white noise or music playing, dark room?, toys in crib?, easy sight of door etc).

Hugs & hugs

Charlotte

[sanrega]

I'm back on board!!!
Mateo is much more spirited than ever but the NW are better than ever. He still wakes sometimes once or twice during the night but 3 out of seven he sleeps from 7:30p.m to 4 of 5a.m then after 1 or 2 minutes he goes back to sleep till 7a.m. I thought it would never happen.
 Sometimes I have the felling that Mateo is a bit Hyperactive and I fell so much better to come back and read all the post. What spirited baby that hasn't got a little bit of hyperactivity?
Hi Charlotte- great to hear that Charles is sttn.

[sherry lynn]

YEY Charlotte   I'm so happy to hear that.

We still have regression here too. Two nights ago I had to stay with him. Usually for us it happens with teething or OT. But then the next day or two we are usually back on track.

Sanrega - glad to see you back. Yes, we have the hyperactivity here too. Being a teacher I can already see the conversations that are going to happen at parent-teacher conferences

[anitad67]

hey, charlotte:  whats charlie's routine now?  kate is still sleeping terribly now.  i am not trying any training till we get back from our trip as it will mess everything up anyway but want to get her routine better...

[Isabellasmummy]

hi ladies,
well just when i thought things were too good to be true they were.. I knew having a spirited baby no day will ever be the same but after 6 weeks i thought i had i sussed.......

[Isabellasmummy]

Sorry Isabella pressed a key!!
Her naps have gone to pot even though my routine hasn't changed, she is point blank refusing the afternoon nap and is grumpily going through the day on 1 hour if i'm lucky, she is sleeping ok at night waking once but is very restless and I hear her wake briefly but she does go back to sleep within seconds...

I just know that if her crappy naps continue i am back to square one, she has started to crawl and i think there is signs of teeth coming though but i don't think that's why. she crys as soon as i put her down in her cot which she didn't used to do?

Oh well at least i got 6 weeks of better sleep, just another 16 years of terrible.
maybe now she is older she needs more A time.. but when i put her down later she only naps for 35mins.

Got to take her out in the pram now otherwise she will be so grumpy...

At least it's not raining like yesterday.

P.S Anita, we went on holiday last week and Isabella slept better there then she does at home, i was amazed, think it was the change of environment.. good luck.

[sherry lynn]

Isabellasmummy - when we got into a rash of 35 min naps they were UT. I think you really need to extend the A time anyway you can. The crying when you lie her down is another clue that you need to extend. By the sounds of that you might need to extend a bit. Try 10-15m for the first nap and see how it goes for a few days. If things don't get better extend it by another 15 min. You didn't post your routine but your LO should be close to 3 hours A time now.

[Isabellasmummy]

hi,

Yesterday she went the whole day on 35 mins but she was fine which was strange, i tried in vain for 4 hours to get her to take her after noon nap but she was not having any of it. her routine

Wake 7.30am
breakfast
Morning nap 9.30am she can only last 2 hours  rubbing her eyes, yawning etc
Nap for min 35min max 1hour
lunch 11.30
Afternoon nap 13.00/13.30 depending on how she has been
Dinner
Bath 5.45pm
Bed 6.15pm (asleep within 10 mins)

She is waking once either 1 am or 5.30am not sure why she doesn't want milk and her nappy is fine???
she is about 13hours at night so maybe she doesn't need much sleep in the day.

I just don't want to go back to how it was?

How are things going for you sherry lynn?
 thanks
xx
   

[sherry lynn]

Isabella - when Lyle turned 9/10 months we also had a few days where he went the WHOLE day on 35 min. CRAZY. That is another sign that you need to increase the A time, because it probably wasn't a 35 OT nap. I think she might be faking you out with those tired signs. We had a lot of discussions about this on the birth boards around this age. All our babies were doing this.

Actually we have this discussion still on the BC regarding 1 nap. We've discussed how around 10/10:30 they start getting a little fussy, yawning, rubbing eyes etc. Now if we put them down at this time 1 of 2 things will happen. Either they won't go down, or they will go down and they will take a short nap and that will be it for the whole day, so they will go from about 11 until bedtime.

Some how try extending that A time. Some new non-stimulating activity maybe. Or a few more books, a light snack.

I think you might be on to something with that night sleep. That is also another sign that she really really really should be able to go more than 2.5 hours before her first nap. 13 hours is a ton on night sleep. That is wonderful that she will do that for you.

 

[Isabellasmummy]

Thanks sherry lynn i was right last night she woke up at 8pm, 9pm 1.30 then up at 6.30am.

She has a cold this morning and for the last week has been off her milk including night times, she doesn't want feeding at night.

We are still putting her to bed early normally in bed before 6pm if she has had bad naps.

Today
woke 6.30am
breakfast
Nap 9.15am
Woke after 30Min's argh!
Lunch at 11am
Second nap  12.45..... refused even though she was rubbing her eyes and getting fussy (will not take 2nd nap in her cot for some reason)
DH took her in the pram at 13.00 took till 13.20 for her to go to sleep and she only slept for 55Min's, again normally in the pram she will sleep until you stop walking but recently she wakes so easily.

I know what you mean about tricking you into thinking they are tired, morning after 1.50 she was yawning and rubbing her eyes, i didn't want to put her to bed because it was too early, i took her upstairs to change her bum and she was fine laughing and playful....

I just don't know what to do, she was napping so well, it just take a few days of bad naps and things just spiral out of control.

Right new week a head what do you think of this proposed new routine.

Wake 7.00am
1st Nap 9.45am   (2.45 mins A time) Average of 45min nap
lunch at 11ish
2nd nap 13.45      (3.15 mins A time)
bed still no later then 6.30pm

I have noticed she has a natural sleep rhythm at 11.20 and seems sleepy then.

Any suggestions welcome.

thanks for your help

[sherry lynn]

I think that routine looks great. Hopefully she will comply