N/W support for spirited babies.

[LucySol]

thanx Sherry.i have been getting help on the EASY board with her A times and i think we might be getting somewhere.i have had to dramatically increase her A times as i was reading her all wrong thinking she was OT was she was in fact UT.im just a bit thrown about the pm nap,and how much A to give her before bed.She was doing 3 short naps a day but with help we are down to 2,a short Am and a longer pm-tho this time varies greatly!

Here was yesterday;
wake-6.00 (EW are another issue that have been going on for months!) BF on waking.
8am-b.fast
nap 1- 9.30-10.05
12.00- lunch
nap 2- 1.35-3.20
3.30 - milk
5.00- tea
BF and asleep for 7.10pm

she then woke at 12am for approx 30 mins,then again at 3.50am and would not go back to sleep till 5.50am and she had another 30 mins sleep.i often hear her stir in the night but settles off on her own easily,it is very rare to have full blown NW like this,tho she is teething

then today; wake after several NW at 6.20
food/milk the same times as the day before but naps were;
9.45-10.20
1.55-3.15
bedtime-asleep for 7pm.
 can you see anything standing out?
Also can i ask,did you start to have any problems with your LO's at this age(9.5 months).im really having a rough time with Daisy,its like nothing i do can make her happy-unless i carry her around all day.She screams LOUDLY over everything.Dressing/washing is a battle as is getting in buggy or carseat-she arches her back and thrusts herself forwards and backwards so i cant get her in.She screams wherever we go in the car.she screamed solid for 40 mins in the car the other day,i had to stop the car several times to get her out cos she was in that much of a state and when i picked her up she laughed! she goes mad if my 4 yr old sits on my knee.shr crawls over hits him in the face, pulls his hair etc.She is just constantly a battle! i love her to pieces but she is such hard work! all this to me seems very young to be doin all of this.she is on the go constantly,crawling.pullin up and walking around the furniture everything apart from playing with her toys-she just isnt interested! by bedtime im exhausted!

please tell me this gets better!

[A pair of Charlies]

Lucy

DS was a mare for a while around the 9 - 11 month mark. I seem to remember there's a WonderWeek or 2 in there. He went through a really screamy phase but came out of it a bit of an angel! I think he suddenly went through a major leap where instead of just hitting things and knocking them over, he suddenly woke up one day and started to try and fit things in other things (cups in larger cups etc) and stacking things. And things pretty much improved from there.

Might be an idea to look at the toys you have and spice things up with other items, household stuff. Charles spent weeks walking empty little boxes around the house on his cart. Like a moisturiser box, a tissue box etc. He'd put little things in them and off he'd go, packing and unpacking as he went. For weeks I was finding 'things' everywhere - building bricks in the laundry hamper, a helicopter in the washing machine, a duck in the bamboo steamer.

[A pair of Charlies]

Yep yep and yep to all that Sherry said!!! Especially the getting used to having a nap at a certain time... And thanks Sherry for the 2 day catch-up, 3rd day cut nap.

Links:
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41952.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=145344.0

Trying to think back to Charles at 9 - 10 months. I think I had 3hr 30 A first thing (7 - 10.30 am), with an hour's nap. Then he would be down again after 3hr A (2.30pm - 3.45 / 4pm+). Then aimed for bed at 7.30. The longer the am nap was, the harder it was to get him down for his pm nap... so that would push the pm nap later and then hash up bedtime. At 9 ish months I think he was having 2.5 hrs day sleep and this is when it all went wonky. I tried to push him to a 3.75 A time for the first thing and it all went crazy but eventually settled. I cut the napping down to 2.25 (seriously, just 15 mins can make a diff!), let his A go back to 3.5hr and things got better. Somehow withouth any deliberate effort his A increased.

After some horrid OT & UT the am nap dropped again, to 45 mins after a 4hr A time. He'll work off that for a good 3hr A...which is pushing our pm nap too late again. So that nap is about to get shorter again. I find a balance hard for the last A time: 3.5 - 4 hrs depending on how his naps have gone.

The routine of Sherry's that I keep in my phone is one we sort of work to, although the A times are a little diff for us now. I use it as a guide to remind myself of how it should all fit together: long As first and last thing, short in the middle. I think this was Lyle's 11 month routine....?

3h30 - 4 A
45 min nap
3h 10 A
1hr 30 - 2 hr nap
4 A
Bedtime (1 hour quiet time before bed)

Erm...what else. We had crazy NWs and EWs for a while. The NWs were in the evening and in the night. I found that evening ones (say up to midnight) were for us caused by too long A time before bed. So I dropped this to 3.5 hr for a long time. It's creeping up to 4 hr now and is hit and miss for us. The OT UT cycle was hell. But I got to the point where I thought he must be caught up on sleep enough to cope for a day on a cut nap...

The other thing that I think helped was that I got us doing more, out everyday for fresh air or shopping, an activity every day (baby group or class or just the swings). I find that if I do activities in the morning it helps that first A time lengthen and he is shattered for his nap. And a walk or shops in the pm before supper also helps us. I think it might be the fresh air. At the mo, he has 'something' happening every day of the week.

At the mo, I think Charles (when well rested  ) does better on a total day sleep of 2 hrs if that. I think once he's on 1 nap, he'll be able to nap longer without chaos nights.

HTH

Charlotte

[SylvieA]

Hi all, haven't been here in a while. We are going through a rough patch. Zoe was doing so well with 2NW which I could live with as they were less than 10min with a quick feed. Now for the past 2 weeks, we have a whiny girl through the day, either due to teething or the woner weeks. If it's the WW, she should be done with this this week. Last night she woke 3x, @1030, 1130-12, 1-4, then up at 7. She just has a hard time settling and staying asleep. In the last few weeks it took about 20min to settle back to sleep, with the occasional night with longer NW. Last night I ended up waking DH at 230 so I could get some sleep to. I'm so glad we have bed in her room, so she slept with DH till 4. I tried but she just poked at me. She settles much better with him. I think she associates me to nursing and playing. I may start a new thread to help through the NW. At this age she should be able to sleep through with 1 NW, as she did at 3mo. I'll be starting work last week of July or first wee of August and I need this settled before I start as I desided to have no daycare for her, and do an evening shift, so there's always a parent home with her. Can you believe, I haven't had a full night sleep in more than a year. Could not sleep while pg and can't now either. OK enough venting. How are you all doing.

[sherry lynn]

Toni - I think most DH don't understand how hard they can be during the day. But having said that my husband is not very demanding of my other household duties, so I don't have to stress too much over that. It is the case for many that the later bedtime sometimes means an earlier wake up. They do get used to go to bed at a certain time, that's why I suggest maybe even just adding 15 min to that bedtime.
I think Charlotte sort of answered your question as far as A time on the other page.

Lucy - in many many ways it does get easier Somethings get more, ummm.... how do you say it.... interesting as they get older. Have to be a little more on my toes and what not, but the thrashing things does get better. As far as the clinginess I've never had to deal with that much, so maybe Charlotte can answer that. All I can say is that usually it is a phase, so hopefully that will be the case for you. Otherwise you might be dealing with SA and you might have to post about that to get over that one.

Sylive if you do start a post be sure to let us know. Huge hugs to you. I know it can be really hard. Hopefully your light at the end of the tunnel is not too far away. Do you want to post your routine here and let us know about any APing. If you do you can, otherwise start a post so you can get some help

[SylvieA]

Sherry, thanks.

Just started a post here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=149586.msg1664086#msg1664086

[Isabellasmummy]

Hi Ladies.

Thank you charlotte for the links, and all the advice you and sherry give me.

Well... yipeeee she slept through the night from 6.30pm till 6.40am. NO NW... (still in shock)
We had an horrific day she only had 50 mins all day yesterday so we bathed her and put her down earlier, but she wasn't giving up rolling and crawling round her cot 25mins after i put her down.

We left her too it, then suddenly silience, she was fast a sleep and didn't hear a peep till the morning, but she looked so tired which was strange.

Today.

Woke at 6.40
nap 9.40 3hrs A time
Slept for 50 mins (post man knocking woke her up!!!)
Second nap 1.50 3.30A time slept for 55 mins but we was out so was wasn't expecting miracles.
Tonight went to bed at 7pm will fuss then normal

So lets see.

I have a feeling that she needs less sleep in the day, as a rule the less she sleeps the better the night, but could it be that she is just exhausted or could she just need less day sleep?

If she wakes loads tonight i might test my theory although very scared as it could backfire and I have a demon child to contend with!

Has anyone ever read of babies sleeping better with less day sleep?

Thanks  xxxxx

[sherry lynn]

Toni - that's not that uncommon at all. But my guess is that she does need a little more sleep than that. I would say at least 2 hours in the day. I think the A times in between are more of what is doing it for you at this point.

Did you say she fussed more than normal at bedtime? Did you do that because she fussed so much yesterday at 6:30?

I think sticking close to 3.5 for bedtime right now is more of a goal to go by? What do you think? So I think I would have done the in bed at 6:30 again?
But not sure.

[Isabellasmummy]

Sherry-she had a sneaky 10 min nap in the pram on the way home from the shops at 4pm so wasn't tired enough at 6.30pm.

Sorry she was less fussy tonight, she has had 1hr 50 mins today, so lets see what happens.

We do try to do the 3.5hrs but at night we go by her tired signs rather then times as if you push her too much she has a meltdown.

Wish me luck for tonight.

How have your nights been?

Where abouts in the world are you? we are in Robin Hood country Nottingham Uk

Toni xx

[Colin Macs Mom]

Since this thread has reached 30 pages I am going to lock it and start a new one.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=149625.0