Bedtime confusion please help

[moomin]

Hi everyone

Have some questions and would really appreciate some advice:

1.  if LO is starting his day @ 7am then shouldnt I be aiming for a bedtime of 7pm with a feed @ around 6.30pm.

2.  If LO doesn't nap for say fulll quota (between 1.5-2hrs) then can I let him sleep a bit longer after his next feed?  For eg this morning, he slept for just over an hour then I let him have almost the full 2hrs at the next sleep.  He then only had an hr after his 1pm bottle after going down @ 2pm, then only 30mins @ 5pm this evening before bath, bottle and bed @ 7pm.  My LO by the end of the day gets so overtired that he screams before he goes to sleep and that's exactly what he did tonight. He seems to fight his sleep all the time no matter what time I put him down, I try to do the 4 S's but none of that seems to help him.  He's shushed @ every sleep. Does my routine seem ok?  Is it normal for LO at this age to fuss @ every sleep? 

Routine as follows:

E  7am/10am/1pm/4pm/6.30pm
Activity is usually something very low key and is sometimes just nappy change - he normally cant really manage being up more than 45-1hr
S ranges from 40mins to the full 2 hrs
Bedtime as I say, Im aiming for 7pm and then DF @ 10pm

LO is 8 weeks old by the way.

Thanks everyone

[HeatherC]

1.  if LO is starting his day @ 7am then shouldnt I be aiming for a bedtime of 7pm with a feed @ around 6.30pm.
yes, that would be about right


2.  If LO doesn't nap for say fulll quota (between 1.5-2hrs) then can I let him sleep a bit longer after his next feed?
If the nap is not at least 2 sleep cycles (1.5 hrs) I would advise that you start the next nap sooner than usual after the next feed.  This will allow him to catch up on lost sleep, and, therefore, this nap might be longer.  However, I would advise against letting him sleep past a feeding time.  You want his internal clock to stay set to the day's routine, and to not get too big of chuncks of sleep during the day (3 hrs or more at a time).  This could cause night waking problems.

You're doing just fine.  LO's at this age have trouble figuring out the whole sleep thing.  The little things we do during the day that we take for granted (eating, staring at the wall, being held) are exhausting for them, and crying is their way of letting off steam.  I think you'll begin to see some changes in the next month or two.  Have you ruled out environmental factors that may be making it hard for him to fall asleep?  Things like household or outside noises, too much light in the room, a smell in the house, his temperature?  If he is having this much trouble falling asleep, other than the sshh/pat which is perfect and great that you're doing, start the winddown and 4 S's about 15 mins sooner.  He may be a baby that likes even less A time than "average."
It doesn't hurt to try.
Let us know how you get on.

[moomin]

Thanks for the advice.

I do the whole close the curtains thing, tell him we're going to sleep and sometimes this is immediately after his feed.  This morning he's only had about 40mins and I couldnt get him back down so after his 10am I'll basically put him straight back and  let him go to the 1pm if he wants to.

Thanks again -this website is excellent for mummies who want a bit of reassurance and guidance

[moomin]

Hi,

Yesterday was pretty sure that bedtime would be EASY?!  LO had a 40min nap in the am, so after his 10am feed, I let him make this up and he slept for almost 2.5hrs, then had his 1pm feed and slept for just under 2hrs, at around 5pm he had a 40min nap, went down after his bottle @6.30pm, slept until around 8pm and then spent the next hr crying, eventually going to sleep in dad's arms, had his DF @ 10am then stayed awake until about 11.30pm.

What am I doing wrong?  Also, with the dreamfeed,  we are finding it hard not to wake LO - should we literally be feeding him then putting him straight back down - no nappy change, no nothing?

Anyone got any ideas on how we can get him to settle more in the evenings?  I am seriously running out of ideas with him - he fights his sleep @ every opportunity.

Tonight, having had only one good nap all day, dad is walking him round the house trying to get him off to sleep.     Thanks

[HeatherC]

Did he wake on his own at 8 pm or did you wake him to feed? 
I always woke my dd completely for the df, and if she fell asleep taking it, I put her straight down if I felt she had had enough already.  Some babies won't eat in there sleep, but you'll want him to go right back to bed.  Don't change his diaper unless completely necessary, and you don't even have to burp him b/c he should stay very relaxed while taking this feed.  Do it in as dark a room as you can, with no talking or stimulation.
How exactly do you mean that he fights sleep?  What does he do?  You should just be consistant with the 4 S's, the winddown, and your method of sending him off to sleep.  Allow him to fall asleep independently, but if you begin ssh/pat, for example, stick with it until it works.  I think the evenings sound typical of a baby his age.  It's just exhausting for them to do what little they do throughout the day and they're tuckered by the end of the day.  Crying is his way of letting out his frustration. 

[moomin]

Thanks so much for getting back Heather.

No, he woke on his own crying and tried everything to get him back to sleep but an hour later his voice was hoarse from crying, he was absolutely knackered and so we took him out in the car.  We do the same routine every night before bed.  He has his bottle, then upstairs (nappy change if needed) close the curtains, turn on our air filter, swaddle him, put him in his moses basket and give him his dummy, talking to him and tellinh him its time for sleep.  When he begins to fuss, then we start shush and go from there.  He may fall asleep at first but I dont think since birth, he's slept from 7pm.

I know that he's still young and crying is his way of communicating but its the screeching that's so hard to listen to, esp. when hes absolutely exhausted from doing it, and his throat sounds so sore.  It doesn't seem to matter what we do, whether we do shush, hold him, rock him, walk anything..   am going to continue with the rountine but until he's grown out of this restlessness in the evening, I'll do anything to keep the little man happy - included trips in the car. 

Nice to know that I am not alone and that this is normal! 

[Kimberly®]

Sounds like your on the right track here, but if you don't mind my imput I think your wind down may be to long and therefore overstimulating your DS. Try doing his final bottle in his room, with lights off curtains closed and air filter on, and him swaddled, talk to him while he eats, and strait into bed with no talking. Step away so he can't see you and give him a chance to sleep on his own. Avoid talking while he's down as it may wake him ferther. Also if he falls asleep on the last bottle once in a while thats ok, as long as he doesn't depend on the bottle for sleep.

The reason he wakes at 8 after being down at 7 is that he's overtired/overstimulated. At his age less is more. Avoid the car as it'll become a prop. Do a dreamfeed before you go to bed. Have faith in yourself and pat/shh and you'll be fine. Your already well on your weay to success.

HTH

[moomin]

Thanks for the advice.  Will try anything!!