Dream Feed Concerns

[BabyBsMommy]

I'll try to make this as brief as I can, still keeping the details...  My son is 5 months old and we are now 2 weeks into our second go at the DF.  We tried it off and on starting at 7 weeks when we started EASY but he wouldn't take it from the breast.  At 3.5 months he took it from a bottle but we quit after a week because of all of the additional wakings.  He still does not sleep through the night as of now.  He is big - almost 18lbs and due to a number of signs, the most obvious being increased hunger after I checked out all other possibilities (my supply, my nutrition, teething, etc.) and with the doctor's ok, we started rice cereal about 3 weeks ago.  He is up to 3tbsp once a day and today we just introduced 1 tbsp of oatmeal.

One of the main reasons we started the DF was because he was down to one nightwaking for eating but was waking once somewhere between 10-12 each night but not hungry enough that he was demanding to be fed.  We thought that the DF may move him towards sleeping through or at least push back his night time feed until earlier in the morning.  Since starting the DF, which we give at 1030 (he last eats at 7pm, is on 4 hour EASY, and is in bed asleep by 7:30), he wakes most nights between 10-10:30 before we give it.  Only 3 times since starting up has he slept through the feed without waking.  He has continued to take a night time feed.  At first it was close to 4-4:30, then it moved to somewhere between 3-4 and now the past few nights it has crept back further and further to 2:15am.  I don't understand why he is so hungry (he gobbles away!) and so early now, especially when he is getting 6oz at the DF now whereas before he would go from 7 until 2 or 3.   This morning, he couldn't make it until 7 - he started in at 6:00 with his hungry sounds so I fed him, he ate for about 25 min (usual feed is only 15) and then went back to sleep until I woke him at 7:15.  So now, with the df, he isn't going more than 4 hours at a time over a 24 hour period without eating.  I have been pumping for the df and I usually get around 4-5oz (then add in a few oz of formula) so I know I have lots of milk, I drink lots of water and eat well.  What gives?  Should I give him 8oz at the df?  Should I drop the df all together and see what happens?  It's like he is taking a full other meal now!!!!!

[owelley]

Have you posted you routine before??  Apologies if you have.  Could you post it again just so we could have a look.  Do you think that he could have a feed to sleep association??  I myself am trying to phase the df.  What do you do when he wakes?? Do you pu/pd??  You might try pu/pd if he wakes too early and give the df when he is asleep again.  How much does he take during the df??

[BabyBsMommy]

I have posted my routine but not lately so here it is:
wakes somewhere between 6:30-7:00am but I don't go to him unless he is upset, he's usually happy.
E7:00
A7:20 - usually bouncy chair while I eat breakfast, then play on floor and tummy time
Solids - 8:00 just started has 1 tbsp of oatmeal
S9:00 (sometimes only makes it to 8:45 still)
A starts somewhere between 10:15 and 10:45 - his length of nap is inconsistent here still but usually over 45 min)
E 11:00
A 11:20 -might do a quick outing for groceries, a walk or busier play such as his jumper
S somewhere between 12:25 and 12:45 based on when he woke from his last nap - usually makes it a pinch over 2 hours of A time - will sleep for at least 1.5 hours, sometimes 2
A somewhere between 2 and 3 depending on his nap - usually in his jumper or a walk depending on what we have already done
E 3:00
S somewhere between 4:30 and 5:00 for a half hour or so.  The past 3 days he has fought the cat nap and we have had to put him to bed earlier, he has been able to go until 6pm and then starts to lose it!  I think he is just getting closer to not needing it... wakes by 5:30
solids 5:30 - 3 tbsp of rice cereal
A - 5:45 - quiet play on the floor
Bath - 6:30
E - 7:00
In bed by 7:15ish and usually asleep by 7:30
DF 10:30 (as I said, seems to wake more often than not before this but goes right back down easily afterwards)
E has been anywhere from 2:15-4:00, though the time has gotten progressively earlier, rarely the same time two nights in a row)
Up between 6:30 and 7:00 but I don't go in until 7:00 unless he is upset.  This morning he did want to eat at 6:15 so I fed him and put him right back to bed until 7:15 (he fell asleep around 6:45)

Sorry for the length but I wanted to make sure I explained it clearly enough!
I don't think he has a feed to sleep association because he rarely falls asleep while eating.  His daytime feeds are separated very well from his sleeps.  I feed him right before bed but he only falls asleep if we have had him up a little late past his bedtime or if he has missed his catnap for some reason and even then, most times, he will open his eyes for a few minutes as I tuck him into bed.  As for the DF and night feeds, his eyes are sometimes open, sometimes not but he never falls asleep eating if he is awake during those times, until after I have put him back in bed - sometimes he settles to sleep within a minute or so, other times we hear him for up to 20 min getting settled.

If he wakes early for his DF we just leave him since he usually can put himself back to sleep.  PU/PD isn't an option for us because he rarely cries.  When he does, we will do PU/PD and he usually  gets more upset and then settles right down the first time we put him back down.  Usually we will just check to make sure he hasn't broken out of his swaddle and do a quiet pat/ssh until he is starting to settle himself again, we rarely have to do this until he is right back to sleep.  My only concern with settling him back to sleep before the DF is that it may push it back past 11pm - if he has just fallen asleep and isn't deep into it yet, won't we likely wake him up again when we pick him up to feed him?  Right now he's being given 6 oz at the DF, usually 50-50 ebm and formula.  I tried 7 oz two nights ago and he still woke up at 2:15.  Should I be giving him a full 8?

Before we went back to the DF, he had started waking randomly one time between 11-12:30 for about 3 weeks up until we started the DF again - during these wake ups my DH could get him back to sleep and he would go until 2-3 at least but if I had to do it, he would sleep fitfully off and on (maybe smelled me?) so with all of the wake ups we figured we may as well try the DF out again and see if he will sleep.  I just don't see why he needs the DF and 2am and now a feed before 7 when he was doing it on only 1 night feed before - he takes full feeds during these times.....
   Thanks again for looking at all of this!!!!

[RachelC]

What happens if DH gets him at the 'random' wake up?  Can her get him back to sleep.

IMO, I would increase the df to match what he is wants, if he needs 8 oz, give him 8 oz.  Please know that this amount can vary one night to the next.

Since the random wake up is random, I do not think it is habitual.  Again, as I stated in the other post, it's not uncommon for babies this age to still need a night feed.

hth

[BabyBsMommy]

Thanks for the speedy reply!  I will start to give him 8oz at the df and if he takes it all, he does - it's hard to throw out that bm when you work so hard to pump it!!! 
As for the random wakings - when they were between 11 and 12:30, DH always could get him back to sleep.  I haven't had him try for these new ones between 2:15 and 4:00 because they have been later rather than earlier up until the past few nights so I knew he was likely hungry by 3:30 or so.  Two nights ago when he woke at 2:30, I had DH go in and he got him back to sleep by 2:45 but he woke up at 3:15 so I think he was hungry in the first place.  Last night, I went right in after 10-15 min of his being awake and just fed him at 2:15 and he had a big feed.  I really just think it is due to hunger but as I said, it seems strange that he is ravenous so early on after the DF when he was waking at the same time before the DF - he is getting at least 6 oz more than he did before!