Wake to Sleep NOT WORKING!!! HELP, HELP, HELP!!!!!!

[Silas Mum]

Our 11 week old, who is a terrible sleeper and suffers from reflux, has been habitually waking at 200am and 400am.  He is not hungry at these times, we have determined.  He is put to bed at around 700pm and takes until at least 930pm - 1000pm to fall asleep, swaddled.  He then has the DF at 1030pm and sleeps until 200am.  He then wakes up and for four nights straight he fell right back to sleep, until 400am, with the soother.  So, DH, the last three nights did the wake to sleep thing at 100am.  He still is waking at 200am and we are forced to give him the soother.  How many more nights do we keep doing the wake to sleep?  What are we doing wrong?  We did it as explained in the book. 
As for the 400am wake up time, it's just insane!!!!  LO is out of the swadldle, so I re-swaddle him and he just FREAKS OUT like no tomorrow.  Screaming until he's purple in the face.  He doesn't want food or a soother.  The only thing that works is jumping up and down with him and sushhing so incredibly loud in his ear.  He then calms down after 1/2 hour or an hour and sleeps until 600am.  He sleeps with the radio cranked to static, as this is the only way we can get him to sleep.  His naps are terrible ... never more than 20 minutes.  We have followed shh/pat to a tee and it just doesn't work for him.  pu/pd doesn't work either.  He's on formula exculsively.  I know this is really long-winded, but we are at the end of our rope, as the last 11 weeks have been from hell.  I am finding it soooo hard to enjoy LO as it is a struggle to just do simple things like the dishes!  I kept reading that at 6 weeks it gets easier and then at 3 months it gets easier, but I just don't believe it anymore.  I get it now why some people only have one child.   

[twoboys]

Big HUGS to you.....and I know exactly where you are coming from.  My DS#2 doesn't have reflux, but has colic.  He is now 6 months old and the doctors told me when he was approx 6 wks old "wait until he is 3 months old, it will get better".  It didn't.  Now I have taken him back to the doctor again and they have told me that if it doesn't clear up in a few months, to bring him back again  .  So usually the evenings are interesting in my home - he cries alot and he doesn't like his dad very much either.  So, it's me that has to soothe him and put him to bed.

I feel for you....I too have tried the W2S method, dream feed, shh-pat, etc....nothing seems to work with my son.  Is your LO on any medication for his reflux?  I have been using Gripe Water and Ovol for the colic - but noticed now that my DS2 is teething....so I now have to deal with that.

I haven't had a full nights sleep since Josh was born.  Sometimes he will sleep for 4-6 hours straight....but it is rare.....maybe once/twice a month.  But then I'm the one waking up wondering if he still breathing.  I am usually up anywhere from 3-4 times a night with him and its usually to cover him back up 'cause he kicked the blankets off, give him his pacifier or he is hungry and needs a feed.

My husband (when he was born) had ulcers, reflux, colic - generally a miserable baby.  He was on some medication, but his mom didn't remember the name of it when I asked her.  I know that she went through a lot with him before the doctors clued in.  All I know is that they keep telling me it will get better.

Although I don't have any advice to give you....hang in there....you are not alone  .  Sometimes you just have to ride it out....DS#1 was almost 4 months before he slept through the night....and he had colic too.

This is an awesome site and someone in the network may give you an idea on how to deal with your LO.  And even if you don't get any answers, this is a great place to vent and get support.

Keep in touch and let us know how you are doing.....

***HUGS***
Stacey

[Silas Mum]

Thank you so much for your encourgement!  LO is on Zantac, even though the Dr. only gave it to us to appease us.  We know that he suffers from reflux, so that's all that matters to me.  LO had terrible colic, up until we took him to the chiropractor.  We found this awesome Chiropractor here in Victoria that takes care of all the Canadian athelets at the Olympics and Commenwealth Games.  He also takes care of famous boxers, ballerinas and dancers.  He is so sought after that he has a three month wait list to see him.  As soon as I phoned his office they got LO in right away.  He told me that he sees infants right away b/c he knows how hard it is to have a colicky baby.  He said that he could cure the colic (his success rate is 98%).  DID HE EVER!!!  It took three sessions, but he said LO was totally 'off to the left'.  I can't believe no one told me about Chiropractors until he was 91/2 weeks old.  No more crying from 200pm-1230am!!  Oval is what we tried, but it doesn't really work for LO.  I put it in the DF every night anyway ... just in case it does work and I don't know.  I feel like I've been in a freakin' fog for the last 11 weeks.  I've had offers from people to look after LO but I know that they can't feed him properly, since it's a struggle even for me.  LO is on Alimentium (super expensive & stinky), but I don't dare go off of it.  I was allergic to every formula imaginable when I was an infant and goat's milk was the only thing that solved it.  DH and all his 4 brothers and father suffer from reflux.  No wonder we have problems!!!

Must get to bed.  Thank goodness DH is amazing with LO and it on parental leave until September 4th!
Allison in Victoria.
p.s.  where in Alberta are you?  My sister is in Cochrane, father originally from Lac La Biche and DH has tons of family in Innisfail and Bentley.         

[twoboys]

We moved from Grande Prairie to Sylvan Lake in March of this year.  Love it here - better shopping!!!

My hubby is not a believer in Chiropractors.  He went to a couple for his back and they made it worse.  Couldn't even walk for two weeks.  So even if I suggest it he will say "no way". 

My LO just woke up (normally will wake up between 11-11:30) but he is not interested in feeding at that point.  I think his teeth are bothering him right now....so I gave him a shot of Tylenol...so hopefully he will get a few hours in before he decides that he wants to interrupt my sleep.

But like you, I must go and get some shut eye.  Two/three hours of sleep is better than none at all.  And you are lucky to have DH around till September....I actually go back to work in September and I am hoping that DS2 is sleeping through the night before then....or I will be a total wreck!

Keep in touch....
Stacey @ Sylvan Lake, AB

[andibig]

hope you don'y mind me butting in!!!i'm not an expert on reflux (but DD colicky when younger) but i saw on one of tracys programs that you can get a special wede mattress that you strap them into (!) and is elevated to 30 degrees. the couple on the program had twins and one suffered from reflux and this worked wonders for them.they also put a towel underneath his changing mat so that his head was elevated basically keep him as upright as possible. one thing tracy said was not to jig him about when trying to get him to sleep (they were doing this and pacing the floor) but to swaddle him and stroke his back as the jigging was making the reflux worse and as he slowly settled pat on back (like a heartbeat). as i say i'm not an expert on reflux but have experienced colic and it is so draining.
Wishing you all the best and big hugs

[Silas Mum]

I totally was hesistant to send LO to the chiropractor, as my grandma has been wrecked by them & I know people who are addicted to them, but we were so desperate since the crying was going on and on and on and our next plan was going to be letting LO cry it out since we tried everything.  I did lots of research on it and talked to the chiropractor and he said they don't adjust like they would to an adult.  LO didn't even flinch when adjusted and it just looked like he was massaging him.  Since we've went I found out that there is more schooling that Chiropractors have to take to deal with infants.  This one I went to is in Norway right now co-teaching a forum on it.  We really feel it's an answer to prayer, as both DH and I were losing it and I was starting to see myself getting depressed.  I know it sounds terrible, but I get it now why people shake their babies.  On a better note, it is now 427am and little one just stirred at 415am for the first time and wasn't screaming!!!!!  I gave him the soother and he is now quiet again ... don't know about sleeping.  DH was up until 1230am, so instead of staying up another 1/2hr. to try the wake to sleep then, he did it at 1230am.  It seems to have worked ... let's see if it works tomorrow night.  You're right, Sasha's Mummy, we've had the mattress elevated to 35 degrees for weeks now and it seems to work great.  We swaddle LO with a receiving blanket super tight (his nickname is Houdini) and then put him in the 'swaddle me' bag (fleece bag with velcro flaps).  He still would get out his feet, so tonight I've tied another receiving blanket around his legs/feet.  Seems to have worked as he would've had them out by this time already.  Another thing that works for us is the elevating the head on the change table ... it's a must.  I should mention that the only time we jump with him is in the early morning like that, since he hasn't eaten in a long time.  I wouldn't dare do it during the day or earlier in the evening/morning.  I can't believe he didn't spit up/throw up anything.  It sure wasn't planned to do the jumping ... guess it was more desperation and not thinking straight at 400am!  Well, I better get back to bed here.  Stacey, hope you had a better night and that LO did go back to sleep!  I'm trying not to think about teething yet ... I've heard it's terrible!  Cheers, Allison.

[twoboys]

 
It was a horrible night!!!  If it wasn't DS2, it was the dog (she is ill right now and needs to go outside every hour to do her business) and then DS1 decided that 6:45am was a great time to get up for the day.  I am so exhausted....I was up every hour!!!  And when I got up to see what DS1 was up to, the dog decided that she couldn't wait to be let outside and did some nasty business in the basement  !  So dealing with that stink in the morning didn't impress me.  And since Josh hardly slept at all last night, he decided that he would sleep his longest stretch from 5:30 to now - he's making his fussy noises in his crib.  So I won't be able to chat too long as I will have to go and get him up for the day. 

I will talk to DH to see if he would like to try the chiropractor on Josh.  I am to the point now where I will try anything just to get some peace around here.  It would be nice to have some family members here so I can unload my kids for an hour or so, but I'm kinda stuck right now.  Justin starts part-time daycare next week which will give me a few hours in the morning to do things with Josh.

After reading your message I got to thinking.....when do you stop swaddling your LO??  I thought that you are supposed to stop swaddling around 5-6 months - or am I wrong??  I might try that during naps and tonight at bedtime....maybe that's the key ??!!

Well, I gotta go....I have to go deal with the POOP Group (not joking either - the dog is included in this one too).

Talk to you later....
Stacey

[andibig]

stacey
sending you biggest hugs ever
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[twoboys]

 
Hugs are appreciated.  At least I was able to read a couple of stories to the boys this morning on the living room floor.  At least Josh sat still for them ('cause he can't crawl to get away from me).  I think Justin was listening....just a busy little guy playing with his trucks.  Josh is taking his morning nap and Justin just had lunch and is playing quietly - oh the sounds of silence!!!

Keeping an eye on that canine of mine too....it's almost like I have to retrain her to go outside again.  Turn my back for two minutes and she's down in the basement landing doing her business - AGAIN!!!   

Well, should go...thanks for letting me vent.  The day is half over and hubby will be home in a couple of hours - which will give me some help!

Talk to you soon.....
Stacey

[Silas Mum]

Hang in there!  Take one day at a time.  'Just a thought, have you gotten involved with any play groups or anything like that?  I know some Mum's that met each other at a park and have a kid-swap thing going on where they each take turns with the kids so that the Mum can get an afternoon off.  Like a rotation thing.  If you don't know many people in Sylvan Lake, maybe phone the public health unit and they usually have a Mum's play group going on every week, at least they do here in BC.  I have a cousin in Sylvan Lake, I can always find out from her what and where she goes with her two little girls.  I think she lives on Hillman Way somewhere. 

As for swaddlling ... I read somewhere here on the BW website that some people swaddle up until 8 months.  Heh, whatever works, I guess.  I'm not there yet though! 

Further to Sasha's Mum's last post ... hugs to you ... it will get better!  Maybe Sasha's Mum can offer some advice to you about teething and dealing with a colicky baby. 

I would seriously look into the chiropractor ... phone the governing body of Chiropractors in Alberta and ask who specializes in infants.  If they don't tell you much, call some Chiropractors and ask who they would suggest or know of that specialize in infants.  Then call them and ask for a consultation and get DH to read up on it.  You might have to go into Red Deer or Calgary.  'Just a thought.  I was just talking to my DH here while I'm typing and he said it really was amazing to see the difference after Silas went to the chiropractor.  The other thing I would suggest is   
to make sure that you are getting out of the house, even if it is with the kids, for a walk.  I know I feel soooo much better when out in the fresh air!  Take the time and go to Starbucks and spend an astronomical price on a latte --- with none of that low-fat milk stuff either!  Treat yourself!           

Must go, still not dressed and it's 10 minutes to noon!!  Silas has been great this morning ... maybe it's because he got a good nights sleep ... or maybe it's because I tied his feet again with the receiving blanket.  On a funny note, my mother, a retired nurse, lambasted me for doing this and for even still swaddling him still!  She thinks DF is bizarre, but I swear by it, as does DH.

Ciao,
Allison  =)

[twoboys]

Hey Allison....
There is a chiropractor here in Sylvan Lake. I have been toying with the idea, so I will talk to hubby about it tonight.  I am still a little doubtful....but will have to do some research to see the pros/cons.

As for the playgroups....there are a few, but some of them are over for the summer months.  Since Justin will start daycare next week, I'm not too worried.  At least he will get some socialization before the big shock of "mom going back to work".  I try to get out of the house at least once a day - whether it be for a walk or a drive.  The weather today is horrible and I am much too tired to even think of trying to get two kids ready to go anywhere.  We did just get back from a weekend in BC too, so I am trying to get them back on a routine.  Spending so much time with the grandparents their schedules are all "whacked" up.  So, they are finally down for the afternoon nap and I am seriously considering going to lay down myself - although I know that as soon as I lay my head down on that pillow, Josh will wake up - always does!!

Thanks for the thoughts....

Stacey

[andibig]

stacey
maybe going back to work will give you the break you need !! wish i could give you some advice about ds2 teething only pain relief is the only thing i can think off. sympathise as DD cutting her molars at the moment and shes been v cranky and not eating . i was talking to my SIL about colic as my nephew (whos a month older than my DD) was also very colicky. she tried craniopathy for her DS and it worked wonders. apparently they can hold a lot of tension around their necks and head. not sure if theres any near you

[twoboys]

I know my mom is not too kean on the idea of me going back to work.  But even my DH explained to her that in order for me to keep my sanity, I need to go back to work.  I have already figured out that I am not a stay at home mom as I had a good career before I had babies.  Now that I am not having anymore, I need that little outside socialization with adults to remain sane.

I am hoping that since the first tooth popped through that it won't be as bad - LOL!!   Time will only tell....and I am also hoping that with Josh getting more mobile by the day, that may help as well.  He is finally starting to enjoy his jumper and floor time a little more.  He doesn't have to sit with me all the time.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.  And I will chat with hubby about the chiropractor or other alternatives - see what he says.

Talk to you later....gotta go and make supper.

Stacey

[Silas Mum]

OK -- maybe W2S does work!  Night before last I wrote that DH did the W2S at 1230am, instead of 100am, since LO was waking up at 200am.  Last night, he didn't wake up at 200am!  He did wake up at 415am, like he has been.  I tried settling him for 45 minutes with the soother and patting.  He wasn't screaming or crying, just really moving around.  I finally called in DH since he has more weapons in his aresonal (sp?) than I.  Of course he was able to get him to sleep in 5 minutes.  He seems to always have success with placing his hand on the soother and with a finger on each jaw bone of Silas' face, do the slightest jiggle.  Works like a charm.  LO woke up at 700am without crying, just a smile on his face.  Unfreakin' beilivable!  He was so tired last night; as soon as he had the last swig of formula & I put the soother in his mouth, I went into the office to get the phone b/c I thought I heard it ringing.  It wasn't, so I walked back into the nursery and I saw Silas' eyes rolling back so I quickly put him in the crib.  I thought he died b/c as soon as his head hit the pillow he immediately spat out the soother and was asleep.  I kept checking on him until DH did the dream feed at 1100pm ... he didn't stir once or move at all in the crib!!!!  So bizarre!  DH was saying to me just now, "remember when we were up ALL night"?  Hopefully this is the start of a good trend. 

Enough about me, how'd your night go Stacey?  Sasha's Mum? 
Must go, Allison  =)

[twoboys]

 
Same as usual.  I was in bed at 10 last night I was so tired.  So didn't get to do the W2S....I did try swaddling, but that didn't do any good.  He was up at 11:30, 2:30, 4:30 and then up for the day at 7:30.  And of course, the dog is still ill - but getting better.  I am hoping that she doesn't get me up during the night tonight.

DH made me soooo mad last night though.  He is sitting in his chair and complaining on how tired he is....and I'm not!!  Just asking him to make bottles or to bathe his son is such a chore for him.  I have gotten into the habit of asking him once....and that's it.  If he doesn't do it, I do and then he feels bad.  Good for him!!!  I was thinking this morning on what it's going to be like when I do go back to work.  I am going to go crazy!!  I know he works hard and his job is demanding, but it's nice to have an extra pair of hands in the evening.

Well, I feel a little better.  Need to vent every now and then.  I'm also on a diet....and that doesn't help matter either. 

So needless to say, DH and I didn't do much talking last night and we didn't discuss alternatives to Josh's colic.  But, funny thing though....he wasn't miserable last night.  Maybe he is finally getting over it. 

Question for you though.....what time do you put you LO down for the night??  I'm wondering if I put Josh down too late and that is why he has an awful sleep pattern.  I start the bedtime routine at 7:30 (bottle, bath, cuddle & then to bed).  He is usually in his crib between 8:30-9:00.  Then Justin is in to bed between 9-9:30.  I keep telling DH that we need to get them into bed earlier, but he doesn't buy it...thinks that the later they go to bed, the later they get up (myth).

Let me know what you think....
Stacey