help with 19 week old's eating pattern

[debo620]

hello, my ds--19weeks- is on 4hour easy, weighs 17+lbs. was sleeping through from df at 10:30pm until 6am feed for about 6weeks. About 3 weeks ago, started waking in the night for feed. this was at random times-usually btwn 2am or 3am.
currently, I aim for feeds at 6am, 10am, 2pm and 6pm,df at 10:30pm

the last 3 nights, he has been waking at 10pm, so not really a dream feed and taking good amount. Should I try doing the dream feed at 9:45pm as to catch him before he wakes?

he also he eats quite well at 6pm, I have notice though that his earlier feeds---10am, and 2pm he is not as interested.

also, with the night feed, the 6am feed is almost non-existant, might eat for 5min or less.

the problem with the night feed is that he does not settle easily afterwards, he is not crying but take 1/2hr-1hour to fall back asleep. I am not really able to help him in any way as he does not have a pacifier etc.

I would like to wean the night feed----I am not sure how to get more calories into him during the day.

I am considerng going back to feeding more frequently---although this is for sure a step backwards.
I am considering starting formula, and doing a watered down version in the middle of the night but I am worried about this b/c not sure which type of formula is best and will his digestive system tolerate it?
Is is time to start him on a bit of cereal? when is the best time of day to start this?

TIA, Deborah

[Samuel's mum]

Hi
I wouldn't recommend you start on formula or solid food purely to solve the problem you describe. It is now recommended by pretty much every medical and health organisation in the world to try and remain breastfeeding for around 6 months. Not everyone is lucky enough to have the choice of doing so but if you can, it might be worth hanging on. There is a lot of evidence that it reduces his chances of getting a host of diseases and conditions and will offer him protection for the rest of his life. To give up on exclusive breastfeeding now may not solve your problems anyway and you could have done it for nothing. I found solids infact increased nightwaking and certainly was no magic answer. Some doctors will recommend solids earlier than 6 months for specific medical reasons e.g reflux. While it's true that plenty of us had cereal early and it 'didn't hurt us', it seems with recent evidence it's wiser to hang on unless your doctor suggest otherwise.

A LOT of babies who have previously slept through 'revert' to night waking. The pattern isn't always what we assume. Look at these studies:

http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleepstudies.html

Babies often being to wake up again for a host of reasons: a range of developmental issues both physical (rolling, muscle development) and mental (developing awareness of object separation and coming out of a lighter sleep due to a form of separation anxiety). Needing more calories is also a factor but not always.

I just fed at night and wasn't bothered by doing so. It wasn't for long in the grand scheme of things. I also sometimes fed more frequently in the day and wasn't concerned about 'steps backwards' but maybe that's just me!

However your description of him being unsettled after the night feed suggests it's possibly not really about hunger. Most babies who wake for hunger are happy to fall back asleep once full. His variable waking time might suggest hunger but if he's remaining awake for sometimes up to an hour my hunch says it's not just hunger. There are ways you can help him. I can see you have been posting on the sleep boards too. Have you developed techniques such as pat/shush or pick up/put down?

With regards to the df, there's no harm in trying a 9.45 feed. If he's been waking up at 10pm on the button it might be good to try and break that pattern with something.
HTH

[debo620]

Thanks for your reply,
I have also thought about trying ebm in a bottle to wean the night feed but find it difficult to pump enough.

I have used pu/pd to extend naps---but it really only works when my son is crying---so I am not sure how to use it in the middle of the night after feeds when he is not crying. any thoughts?

thanks, Deborah

[RachelC]

Deborah,
Can you post your whole routine?  Perhaps he is getting too much day sleep?

[debo620]

our routine:

wake-5:30am -5:45am stays in crib until 6am
E6am bf (attempt--but not hungry from eating in the night)
A
S7:45/8am-9:30am
A
E 10am bf
A
S 11:45-1:15pm
A
E 2pm
A
S 3:30-4:15pm
A
bath 5:50pm
E 6pm, bed by 6:30pm---asleep by 6:45pm at latest
df at 10pm

has just started sleeping for full 1.5hr naps, used to sleep for only 45min--I would pu/pd for 30min and he would sleep for another 45min. I think his total amnt of day sleep is the same but maybe the quality is better---not broken

TIA, Deborah

[RachelC]

Deborah, I am thinking that perhpas he is getting too much day sleep.. may need more A time.  I would suggest posting over on the nightwaking board to get some more 'expert' advice 

Post your whole routine, including what happens at night

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=33.0

[debo620]

Thanks Rachel,
from what I have read and from the nap moderators etc, I think his day sleep is okay, <4hrs, but I will double check. I have posted on the night wakings board but haven't had much luck for responses.

my main concern is that he seems to be consuming a lot of calories at night, last night he bf for 25min----twice as long as what he will during the day. I would like to reverse this so that he will be hungry during the day again.
This is why I have thought of a gradual watering down of a night bottle.  However,I can not pump enough  ------which is why I thought of doing it with formula.

I don't want the formula to cause problems but I need to do something. I can not go back to sleep after I feed him. I am averaging 4-5hrs sleep a night.

TIA, Deborah

[RachelC]

Do you leave him to fall asleep on his own?  Does he cry if you leave?

[debo620]

Do you mean after I feed him? No he does not usually cry after I feed him. He is calm and I leave.
Last night he woke at 2:30am--cooed and talked for about 10min and then started crying.  I wonder if the waking and cooing etc is actual hunger? Anyway, I fed him and I placed him in his crib, he did cry as soon as I put him down but calmed with a quick hand on his chest and I left. He actually fell asleep within 20min after that.
Deb

[RachelC]

That's great that he puts himself back to sleep, even if it does take 20 minutes.  Do you have a monitor?  Can you turn it off at night?  Trust me, you will hear him when he needs you... and will tune out the noises that are a result of him just settling himself.  Can DH (I am assuming, sorry if I am incorrect) help you out and try to get him back to sleep?

[debo620]

LOL, I wish I had a monitor that I could turn off. No, instead we have a small bungalow. ds's room is across the hall (3ft) from our bedroom!
Anyway, he was quiet last night and sleeping and I still couldn't sleep. Maybe I need some sleep training! Dh is not helpful with the helping lo to sleep---probably b/c I have never let him be.  I am starting to ask him to put him down for naps on the weekend etc. But I do not trust him to do pu/pd properly if my ds wakes from a nap early etc.
Back to the feed-----is it possible for me to wean this night feed? How?

[RachelC]

I know how you feel... it takes me forever to fall back to sleep after dd wakes.  Dh, on the other hand, is out like a light... and he's the one that actually gets out of bed 

You can try watching the clock for how long the feed is (actually feeding, not hanging out pacifying).  Say it's 15 min.  Next night cut him off at 14 min (for 3 days or so) then 13 min, then 12.... Kelly (zandersmummy) eliminated her night feed this way.

This way (we hope) he is more hungry for the 1st feed of the day and begins to take more then.  Could you throw in a cluster feed at 4 (or when he wakes from that nap)?  Just tossing out some ideas.

[debo620]

Thankyou,
my dh also sleeps through everything, and he wonders why I am so tired in the morning.
maybe i will try to contact Kelly and get some tips from her.
thanks again,
Deborah