help!

[Sam's mum]

Hi

my dd is 16 weeks old and for the last couple of weeks has been feeding as follows... Will start off fine, sucking vigorously and swallowing, after 10 mins starts to bob off and on shouting at me or crying in between.  I try to burp her and try to put her back on but she won't settle until I switch to the other side.  We start on the other side and the process starts again.  I then try to switch her back and she starts to cry inconsolably until either me or my dh take her out of the room and change the scenery.  Thought she might have been having a growth spurt and teething at first.  When this happened last week we gave her a bottle of formula for the df just to ensure she would get some calories and I expressed.  The next few days we played it by ear and started using gel on her gums before feeding.  This seemed to work but some nights I would start bf and she would start again so would have a bottle ready to give if needed.  It seemed to settle down over the weekend and she was feeding fine however today it started again early in the morning feed and carried on until this evening.  She has had immunisations today so was unsettled anyway but tonight she was going crazy so I decided to make a small (3oz) bottle of formula and see what happened after feeding her myself.  She drank the whole thing and looked like she wanted more.  Also she had started to wake sporadically after being put to bed a 7pm when before she would often sleep through to df.  My question is could she be ready for solids - I know the recommendation is 24weeks but I've known others to start their lo's on them sooner.  I've never had an issue with supply before - we transitioned to 3.5hour easy and she has been doing really well.  I don't really want to switch to formula as until now we have both really enjoyed feeding and I had intended to bf her until she was about 12 months or weaned herself, but at the moment we're both finding it hard work again.  Also my period restarted last week...could this affect the supply?  I don't think she is in a growth spurt as she went through one a few weeks back.

Anyone's thoughts appreciated.

Fiona

[linfran]

Could you post your lo's routine?  How much milk to you reckon she's getting and is she gaining weight OK?

It's possible it could be teeth as a lot of babies seem to fuss long before anything happens to appear.  My lo is a lot more unsettled because of the teeth but things have eased now his popped two of the little beasties through.

As for solids, I started my lo at 15 weeks - by that stage he was 17lbs 15oz (no rocking him to sleep, I can tell you!) and was getting through 4 8oz bottles a day and waking for another at night (which would be gone in 15 minutes).  It was recommended by my health visitor that he move to solids, just baby rice and fruit and veg, nothing with glutin.  However, I was also told guidelines were six months and I don't disagree with that but my lo clearly wasn't managing on milk alone.

Perhaps you could speak to your dr or hv for their views on this in your lo's particular case - what's right for one isn't necessarily right for another.

Big hugs

[Sam's mum]

Hi

our routine looks something like this
7/7.30Awake and E
8-9.30A
9.30-11/11.30 S
11/11.30E
11.30-1/1.30A
1.30-2.30/3S
2.30/3E
3-4.30A
4.30-5.30/6S
5.30/6E
followed by bedtime routine and in bed around 7
DF 10/10.30
4am night feed

She never normally stays asleep for all of the S time (usually one good 1/2 - 2 hour nap at one of the S times and more like 1hour for the others - but very alert and normally pretty content).  When we've offered a bottle she takes around 5oz (sometimes breast and formula combined and other times just breast milk depends how much I manage to express).  I haven't had her weighed this week but two weeks ago tomorrow she was up to 11lbs8oz (she a petite thing), but that was definitely at the end of a growth spurt as she had managed to put on 1lb and 1oz in about a week and a half (previous weigh in was 10lbs 7oz) and we had not offered formula at that point.  Also for the last couple of nights she has been waking between bedtime and df and tonight we haven't heard a peep from her so far with an hour left until df.  I'm sure she is teeting as she is drooling enough to drown a battleship!! and constantly knawing on anything she can get into her mouth.  I'm going to phone my hv tomorrow to ask as I really would prefer to continue to bf for milk rather than switch to formula.  I just feel like we've worked hard to get the bf established and I don't want to switch.

Thanks for the advice - good to know others don't always stick to the recommendation.

Fiona 

[Samuel's mum]

I'm being to called to dinner but I really wanted to ask you whether you would consider phoning a breastfeeding helpline, finding a lactation consultant or contacting your local La Leche League. The situation you describe sounds to me like one that requires some professional advice if you do want to continue breastfeeding. (It's possible that as you continue to supplement, your supply will eventually dwindle and breastfeeding will come to an end).

My unprofessional advice is that a baby of her age is more than capable of getting a full feed in 10 minutes - hind milk included. Some feed for around 5 minutes - seriously. She may be saying , "for goodness sake I'm done here". Then she's relieved to get the next side and does not need to be encouraged to go back on once she's done. I would say if she's coming off herself after 10 minutes - she could well be finished. That was certainly my experience. Offer the second side if you are doing double-sided feeding but don't expect her to take as much. Then start with that side next time.
Babies who are otherwise full can still continue to feed from bottles as the sucking motion requires so much less effort and tonight perhaps she was tired from an unsettled day and the bottle was offered and easy.

I'm just saying, is there a chance she could be finishing in 10 minutes??? Many mums on this board report feed times reducing and babies becoming more efficient around this time.

P.S Sorry to contradict the previous poster but I would urge you not to start early solids without speaking to your doctor at the very least. This is especially important if you are breastfeeding.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/delay-solids.html

[Mrs. Gravy]

I agree with delaying solids until at least 6 months.

It's totally possible to finished a feeding in 10 min.  My son is done in 7-8 min max, and that's for both sides.  As babies age, they get more and more efficient at nursing.

If you want to continue breast feeding, it's best to feed on demand, not on a schedule.  I know that's contrary to BW methods, but really, it's the only way.  Babies know what they need, and when you nurse when they're hungry, it helps keep your supply where it should be.  When a baby goes through a growth spurt, they will tend to nurse much more frequently.  This will increase your supply to meet their higher needs.

If you feed strictly on schedule, your supply will remain constant and you may end up supplementing, which will only further decrease your supply.

In my opinion, bf on schedule is the quickest way to ruin a bf relationship.

[Samuel's mum]

Dear previous poster,

I respect your opinion on the issue of feeding on demand and infact many mothers who do use 'baby whispering methods' begin by feeding on demand for the first few days or weeks before introducing a EASY pattern. However it's important to note the Baby Whisperer method is not about strict scheduling. In fact the importance of listening to your baby's needs and the need to be flexible is highlighted. Tracy is openly critical of over- scheduling (p.43 in the Secrets of the Baby Whisperer - table which presents EASY as the middle ground between 'on demand' and 'schedule') (p.116 of same book - box entitled 'use your common sense'). EASY is a 'routine' not a timed schedule. Many breastfeeding mothers begin with EASY routines of 2 - 2.5 hours, some 3 hours, some move to 4 hours. Each baby is an individual.

This site is based on the principles of the late Tracy Hogg and the Baby Whisperer writings. While parents here may take different aspects of her work it is broadly assumed that we are in agreement that this site exists because of her. It is not expected that posters here openly criticise her methods and in fact many happy parents would disagree with your simple statement that what you believe is 'the only way'.

This site is very gentle compared to other sites in that we strive to remain courteous to each other at all times. I apologise if you feel this post is an attack but I feel it's important you understand the background to this particular site - one of many parenting sites available.

[rebecaq]

Hi Fiona,

It sounds like teething is the trouble for sure. I bf my ds until he was almost 9 months old, and for the first 4 months our schedule was all out of whack. I read BW Solves All You Problems and put him on EASY right away. Being a very spirited child it helped us inmensly. Not only did he become more content but it helped me to read him better. I knew when he was hungry, sleepy or when it was something was out of the ordinary. So teething was easily spotted, so were colds, growth spurts etc. My breast also filled 10 mins before a feed, it was amazing! And even more amazing he would drain each one in 3- 4 minutes!!!!   

I also agree that you should speak to you doctor before introducing solids, not only can it cut into your supply, but you need to see if your baby is ready to handle solids.

Please let us know 

- Beca

[Katet]

If you feed strictly on schedule, your supply will remain constant and you may end up supplementing, which will only further decrease your supply.

In my opinion, bf on schedule is the quickest way to ruin a bf relationship.

I'm glad this is your opinion, I bf both my boys exclusively to 6months on a routine roughly 3-4 hours & from 3-6months myds only fed 4-5 times in 25hours... both boys weighed more than 10kg (22lb) at 6months old, I am still bf my 13mo & have NEVER had a supply issue... I disagree that feeding to a schedual or routine ruins a bf relationship... yes if you do it in the early days but not after supply is established.

Sam's Mum I would say that the fact your period started back is the main cause... it certainly caused problems with my ds#1 as I had a hormonal imbalance & bled on off for 3 months from when ds#1 was 8weeks old.
Also she may have decided that the hind milk is too hard to suck on, so gives up, so what I have done when I had the bobbing off issue, is to give 5mins & change of scene & then offer again... I would offer 3-4 times in the early part of an awake period.

I would strongly suggest not giving solids a) it could cause more waking as the digestive system isn't mature & can increase the risk of allergies & obesity in later life also b) bm is much better nutrient wise.

[linfran]

Could I just clarify - I was not advocating the introduction of solids before six months as a general rule.  My son was deemed an exceptional case (mainly due to his weight) and solids were introduced early on medical advice - hope I've cleared that up, all I wanted to say it is possible to introduce solids (but carefully) earlier than six months but this is not the norm.

[Sam's mum]

Hi

Glad to see there is a lot of healthy debate around the subject! !  I think there is something in terms of her demand and my supply.  I spoke to my health visitor this morning and described the situation as well as dd's reaction to watching me eat and drink.  In all we decided just to try her and see how she reacted to baby rice.  I tried this afternoon and she was chewing and swallowing straight away.  She only started pushing the rice out of her mouth after a good 5 minutes and I took that to mean she'd had enough.  I don't really want to introduce something she isn't ready for but it seems like all the signs are there and I'm running out of ideas.  I tried going back to a 3hr EASY for a few days a few weeks ago but it hasn't helped the situation in the long run.  I don't want to give formula as a rule but am feeling like if she is hungry and I'm not producing enough milk then she needs something to supplement (I am drinking around 2litres of water a day and making sure I eat extra protein along with carbs).  So far it's only been a couple of ounces per day mixed with breastmilk to make a full feed  (which I was expressing initially so dh could give her a bottle and I could sleep ) and I haven't noticed a reduction in her appetite at each feed.  When she bobs off and on I don't think she is finished as she is really unsettled and keeps knawing on her hands.  Also when she does this at other times and is finished she is a lot more contented (smiling, playful).

In terms of demand feeding and scheduling.... my own parenting style is more in line with routine (which I guess gets confused with scheduling), and that's why we've really appreciated the BW book system and website.  So far she has done really well on this and to go to demand feeding now would really confuse her as this is something we haven't done since she was around 2weeks old.  In terms of the routine we both like it as it helps us to know roughly what's going on without offering food as a constant comfort (plus I've had no issue with bf for nourishment but object to being used as a human pacifier - just my own opinion).  Having said that if she is hungry before the 3.5/4 hours are up I feed her and adjust the rest of the day accordingly... also if she is just beyond consolation for whatever reason (which has happened only once or twice) I've offered the boob and managed to calm her down.

So to sum up - in Tracy's own words or near enough... I'm her mum, I think this is what's going on so we're going to tread very slowly with some baby rice towards the end of the day and see what happens.  I'll let you know after a couple of weeks - thanks so much for all your support and advice.

Fiona

[evanskimberley]

Sounds like you've really got your head screwed on and know just what you are doing!!! Well done for being such a well read and informed mum and for listening to and following baby's needs.

Hope it all works out for you!
Kxx

[Sam's mum]

PS - Just wanted to say again how much I appreciate these message boards, even though I feel like I have to take a deep breath and make the decisions it nice to know there is lots of support out there regardless (well almost!) of the decision I make!!