14 month old staying up late

[twins_2005]

Hi everyone,

I have 14 month old twins, and one of them (my son) has been going through some interesting sleep issues in the past month or so. About every 1 1/2 weeks, he stays up really late for a few days in a row - until 8:30 or 9 pm. (He usually goes to sleep for the night around 6 - 6:30 pm.) He just hangs out in his crib -  babbling and rocking. He doesn't complain and doesn't act excited (most of the time). Whenever I go in to check up on him, he seems fine.

He started staying up late when he started walking around a lot. I thought it was the excitement of walking that was keeping him awake, but I would think he'd be over the excitement by now.

He seems REALLY sleepy and weepy during the days that he looses sleep. When he goes back to his normal routine, he seems much better rested.

Does this indicate that I need to adjust his schedule a bit, or is it just a phase he’s going through? I'm reluctant about having my twins on 2 different sleep schedules. My 14 month old daughter loves her sleep, and is doing great on her schedule right now.

Here's their normal schedule:
* 9 am nap (lasts 1.5 hrs for my daughter; 50 mins for my son)
* 1 pm nap (lasts 1 hr for my daughter; 50 mins for my son)
* Sleep at 6 - 6:30pm; wake up at 6:30 am

(My son has always needed less sleep than my daughter, and has always taken shorter naps no matter what schedule I’ve had them on.)

Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks!

[Florencia]

Hi!

By looking at your schedule, and given your son's age it looks to me that he might be overtired and that's why he's having trouble relaxing. He might giving you the signs that he's ready to switch to one nap (most short nappers switch early to one nap a day and they seem to sleep for longer periods then). But you also mention that he's doing this every other week, not in a regular basis. Maybe you can try putting him down for a nap 15 mins later than he's used to (specially for the second nap) and even if he sleeps for 50 mins then, he'll be less tired by bedtime. What's your wind down routine like? sometimes extending the bedtime winddown helps to get them drowsy easier.

They both are in the age for teething their molars, which can also play an important role on sleeping outbursts. Have you checked a sign of them? maybe with some pain releifers you might solve the puzzle.

I'm not sure that changing the schedule abruptly would be a solution for you guys because of her sister's sleeping, and i'm aware that if something aint' broken better not fix it.

You can also try some wi/wo to help him go to sleep during bedtime, but this will only work if he's crying for you. If he's happy playing quietly, then we have to think about something else to help him wind down and relax and go to sleep without getting overtired.

I'm not sure if i was of any help. there's another board of MULTIPLES, where you can also ask for help that is provided for moms with twins or more and you can get some good tips there too.

Let me know what you think about extending his awake time for the second nap and if you see that it's not helping, we can come up with something more.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[twins_2005]

Hi Florencia,

Thanks for your suggestions. I'm putting my son down 15 mins later today for the second nap. I'll see if that works after trying it for a few days in a row.

Also, here are answers to some of  your questions below:
- Yes, he is getting his molars in. I see 2 of them poking out, but since he doesn't cry in his crib, I'm not sure if he's in pain.
- My wind down routine for the evening goes like this... dinner, bath, reading books, place in crib to sleep. The whole routine from the bath to the placing in crib lasts about 45 mins... since I bathe one child at a time. I read to them for about 15 mins. I've done this since the kids were about 6 months old.

I think you might be right about him being overtired. Although he doesn't act wired or anything, I think he's having difficulty falling asleep. I had also tried pulling up his bedtime by 15 mins a couple of days ago, but he doesn't always grab the opportunity to go to sleep earlier. When he's REALLY tired after a few days of staying up late, he does finally go to bed by or before 6 pm.

Thanks again!

[Florencia]

no need to thank ok?

Sometimes teething pain is not expressed as clear upsetting or crying. Sometimes is more like difficulty to relax (which is the exact case for your ds). Some kiddos are just like that, though cookies that are not broken down easily (good thing for him in the future). Since he's not expressing his pain clearly it can get confusing, but i can assure you it's there. 2 molars at a time are like a real bad headache and his brain gets programmed to be "on guard", that's just how nature works, so we have to work on giving him the oportunity to relax or relearn how to relax.

That's why i think pain meds at the beginning of bedtime routine (if your ped ok's them) will get you somewhere. Also if possible, lenghten the time of the routine where he gets drowsy (maybe 5 extra mins of cuddling or an extra book) so he can get where he needs to drift off.

I'll be waiting to hear how the late nap went.  And to hear about your progress. Good luck!

[twins_2005]

Oh, I see. I didn't know that about teething. Well, so far, the shifting of the nap has not made a difference. But, a couple of days ago, I did give him some Tylenol in the evening just to see if it would help. That night he went to sleep around 6 pm and woke up refreshed in the morning. I didn't really make the connection until now, after reading your email. Maybe that's why he's weepy and cranky during the day too... Poor guy! I'll give it a try again, and see how it goes.

[twins_2005]

The situation seems to be getting worse. He's starting to skip his second nap. He's done this 2 days in a row... and he did it once last week. Before this, he had never really resisted his naps.

Yesterday, after skipping his second nap, he went to sleep by 6 pm (bedtime) and slept well throughout the night. Today, after skipping his second nap, he slept at 6 pm again, but woke up at 7 pm and stayed up in his crib until 9:15 pm. He didn't cry at all. He just played and rocked. I have been giving him pain meds, but it seems to me that they are probably not solving anything as far as his sleep goes.

Any ideas? Basically, he now has 6 - 7 + hours where he is awake... whereas before, he had a *maximum* (worst case) of 4.5 hours of wake time between sleep periods. Could he be changing his sleep pattern so abruptly?

Thanks for any suggestions!

[Nikki~Nathanamp;Danielle]

Just to jump in here...

I hate to say it, but it does seem based on your last post that he perhaps is ready for one nap. My dd was dropping her 2nd nap and we had the same issues as you, so I put her onto one nap and it was just what she needed. You do seem to be in a bit of a spot though with having two schedules, but I guess no different to when my dd was a baby on 2 naps and ds was still napping kwim?  What I did to get around the two different nap times was to put dd who was still on 2 naps down for her 9am nap as usual but I would wake her by 10am so I knew she'd be tired again by 12.30pm when ds would go down for his nap. So perhaps you could keep your ds up until 12.30pm if you think he could handle it and put him down then and your dd the same time or slightly after if you think she may not be quite ready for it yet - you will hopefully have at least 1hr overlap where they are both napping. One thing you may notice when you switch to one nap is to expect the one nap to instantly be longer, but I have found that it can take a week or two until the nap consistently becomes one long nap as their body needs to change to the new routine.

HTH

[twins_2005]

Thanks, Nikki. I hate to admit it, but I think you might be right. I've been reading some of the other posts on this board, and it seems my ds might be ready for 1 nap. I really like your suggestion about how to deal with the 2 different schedules too. I'll give it a try. Fingers crossed!

[twins_2005]

Hi all,

I still haven't tried the one nap thing with my son. I'm concerned about him being even more overtired once I try the transition. I'm afraid that he might drop to one nap and STILL got to sleep really late... hence, losing more sleep. I just can't figure out why he's staying up so late all of a sudden! He's done this EVERY night now for the past week. His new self-proclaimed bedtime seems to be 9 pm! A huge difference from 6 pm!

What have your experiences been with this sort of thing? Would he go back to an earlier bedtime if I eliminate one nap? I don't want him to be on one nap if he's staying up so late.

He's started to go to bed about 6 -7 hours after his 2nd nap. If he's missed his 2nd nap, then it's about 8 - 9 hours of awake time!  Sounds like a lot for a 14 month old, no?

I hope he goes back to sleeping 13.5 - 14 hours a day... instead of 10ish!

Some reassurances would be great. Thanks again.

[imsmum]

When dd transitioned to one nap she was so ready to be go to sleep by around 6 :30.  I think you only have to worry about a late bedtime if you try to put him to bed too late and he is overtired. 

Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems sets out a method of gradually shifting to one nap if you are worried about making the change all at once which involves slowing pushing the am nap back until it starts to lengthen.  Until then you continue to offer 2.  You may want to check that out.  Good Luck!     

[Florencia]

I think the more you wait to do the transition, the more overtired he'll be and the harder the transition will be. I haven't seen any problems around here with late bedtime when transition to one nap, the most common problem is that the nap is short and it's solved with an early bedtime.

I'm not saying it is a smooth transition and it will magically work, but since you're trying so hard with the 2nd nap with almost no results, i think it might be worth a shot to the one nap a day approach. Remember we'll be here for you in case things don't turn out as well and quick as expected. Good luck!

[twins_2005]

Thanks, imsmum and Florencia! I did order that book on-line about a week or so ago, and it should be here any day now. I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival.

[Harrisonsmummy]

Your other option is to transition both at once! Although it is hard to keep them awake until lunchtime, it is easier than making them sleep early. Many children transition earlier than they would be naturally ready if they are in a nursery, their bodies do adjust to a different  schedule and your dd will probably move to one nap in the next month or so......

Harrison was on two naps a day until January, but due to AP I had to walk him for his 2nd nap of the day. One day I walked around and around and he would not sleep! That was the last time he had two naps, it took a couple of weeks for him to adjust and early bedtimes but otherwise fairly smooth sailing.

Just a thought......

[twins_2005]

Yes, I was contemplating that as well - transitioning my dd along with my ds. I think transitioning my ds will be easier than transitioning my dd. I'll have to see how she handles it. If she throws fits - which she does when she's tired (oh boy!!) -  I'll keep her on 2 naps a while longer.

[twins_2005]

Hi,

I finally have plunged into the 2 - 1 nap transition for my twins. I figured that I'd give it a shot with my daughter too. Surprisingly, my daughter is handling it very well. (Fingers crossed!) She's still sleeping 14 - 14.5 hrs a day; her sleep is just reorganized. My son was doing well for 3 days, and is experiencing some bumps along the way now.

I'm basically pushing out the morning nap by 15 - 30 mins. It used to occur at 9 am, and I've pushed it out to about 10 am now. I'll push it out to 10:30 tomorrow.

The thing is... my kids don't take the afternoon nap now... even though I do still offer it. My daughter sleeps ~ 2 hrs during her 10 am nap, so I don't feel so bad. But my son sleeps only an hour, and is up around 11 am. I put them down for bed around 5 pm.

My daughter does fine and sleep right away. My son did do just fine and slept right away for the first 3 days of the transitioning process. However, last night, he woke up from his sleep at around 6:30 pm and stayed up until 8:15 pm. I was worried that he was going back to his 9 pm bedtime again. Today, I set him down around 5:15 pm, and he took a long time to fall asleep. He finally slept around 6:50 pm. He did take a catnap today (from which I woke him up) -- from ~ 2:55 - 3:05 pm.

Do you think he's overtired? I thought a bedtime of 5 pm sounded reasonable. They usually wake up around 6/6:30 am.

What amount of time should they be awake between their sleep? I'll be pushing out the morning nap even more tomorrow, so the time he's up between his nap and his bedtime will be less than it is now. I've been reading the messages on this website and have even read the sample toddler schedules... but have found that the range can be anywhere between 4.5 - 6.5 hours. Is there a recommended A time for babies this age? Or is it something that could vary from baby to baby?

Thanks so much again!