4 month growth spurt?? Possible teething?? EASY all messed up!!

[BoBoG]

Our son just turned 4 months yesterday and last week we transitioned him to the 4-hour EASY - he has been doing pretty good with the longer times, and his nap improved tremendously to having two 2-hour naps and one 1 hour or so nap in the early evening, sleeping by 7:30-8:00 p.m. to about 6 or 6:30 a.m.  We struggled with his 30-45-minute naps for about 4 weeks or so before the transition.

Yesterday I noticed that things started to change.  He was a lot fussier throughout the day, he couldn't last the 4-hour feed time twice during  the day or the 2-hour A time, he was constantly putting his hands into his mouth and he was more difficult to put down for his naps (which also got shorter by a bit as well), and a lot more difficult to put down for the night.  I fed him at 5:30 p.m. yesterday, then again for a top-up at 7:15 p.m. before putting down to sleep.  He eventually fell asleep by 8:30 - waking up at 9:30 p.m. with a hunger cry (he hasn't done his in a very, very, very long time....) and he took a full feed.  He woke up again at 2:30 a.m. crying and I found him on his stomach (this totally freeked me out as he's never done that - we put him to sleep on his back and if anything, we'll find him in the morning on his side) he wouldn't settle down so I offered a feed as it was an erratic - unusual wake up for him - again he took a full feed.  Sounds like a growth spurt right?  Developmental spurt??

He woke up his usual 6:30 a.m. and we fed - but he couldn't last longer than 1 hour and 30 minutes of A.  It took him about 30 minutes or so to settle down and then he slept for about 50 minutes - since it was almost 10:00 a.m. (what would be a 3-hour feed schedule) I didn't work on getting him back to sleep but rather gave him a feed.  Again, his A was only 1 hour and 30 minutes - and then he was really hard to put down for his nap.  He slept only for 45 minutes and woke up crying again... screaming -like cry, wouldn't settle so I offered a feed - he took a full feed.  I tried to put him down - after a few minutes... screaming cry again, wouldn't settle and again he took another feed. 

I've got a few questions that I'm hoping someone can help me out with.....

1. when our LO's are going through a growth spurt, or they're a little off - how important is it to maintain atleast the EASY routine even if the times are way off??  Rather than keeping him up after the last feed that I gave him, I put him back down (he's been sleeping for 20-minutes so far....), as I determined that sleep is more important for him now then A as he only had 45-minutes of sleep.  Is this the right approach to take?? I'm worried about him getting overtired as the day progresses if I need to follow EASY routine and he's not getting good restful sleep.  I'm also worried about losing what progress we've made so far with the 4-hour EASY - will it be hard to bounce back?

2.  is it possible that a 4-month old can be teething??? I've noticed a big change in his crying and I wonder if its a pain cry, which I don't believe that we've heared yet?? We are scheduled for his 4-month doctor's visit next week - but does anything have any insight or experience to share with us??

3.  Developmentally, he showed us that he is starting to be able to roll from his tummy to his back..... how much does this type of growth affect sleep patterns?? any advice on how to handle / control disturbances??

Thanks for reading - I hope that someone can help! 

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi there! Can I ask a few questions?

1. Why did you think your lo was ready to transition to a 4 hr EASY?
2. How did you go about the transition? Was it gradual? Did it just happen?
3. How many oz of milk is lo consuming?

It may be that your lo isnt ready for a 4hr EASY just yet. He may be ready for say a 3.5 hr EASY. I know you gave me a lot of details, but could you post the routine in which he was having a hard time? I will try to help. It is always nice to have a second pair of eyes.

[BoBoG]

Hi there, we started transitioning him because he was showing that he was able to handle up to 2 hours of A time (although being somewhat overtired and difficult to put down for naps at times) and able to go longer than 3 hours between feeds (I'm exclusively breastfeeding). 

You asked whether the transition was gradual..... now that I've closely examined the transition, No, it wasn't gradual    - probably has something to do with the fact that I was following his cues and ability and perhaps pushing his limits

Here's what happening during the first 5 days (I hope you've got the time to examine these times): 

Day 1  up at 6:00 a.m.
E  6:30
A 6:50-7:50
S 8:10 - 8:45 (mantra cry at this point) + 8:47-10:20

E 10:30
A 10:50-11:50
S 12:00-12:40  + 1:00-1:15 + 1:30-2:00

E 2:30
A 2:50-3:50
S 4:00-4:30  +  4:40-5:30

E 6:00
A 6:20-7:00 (very low key activity)
E 7:30
S 8:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.

Day 2 up at 6:00 a.m.
E  6:30
A  7:00-7:45
S  8:00-8:26 +  (mantra cry) 8:29- 9:45

E  10:15
A 10:40- 11:10
S  11:25-12:03 (mantra cry) + 12:07 - 1:00

E 1:30
A 2:00-3:30
S 3:45-5:00

E 5:30
A 6:00-6:40
E 7:00
S 8:00-

Day 3 up at 6:00
E 6:30
A 7:00-7:45
S 8:00-10:00

E 10:15
A 10:30-11;40
S 11:50-2:10

E 2:20
A 2:50-4:10
S 4:20-5:05

E 5:30
A 6:00-7:00
E 7:00
S 8:30-

Day 4 up at 6:00
E 6:20
A 6:45-7:40
S 8:00-10:00

E 10:20
A 10:45-11:45
S 11:50-1:10

A 1:40-2:10
E 2:20
A 2:40-3:40
S 15 minutes of sleep during the car ride home ... wouldn't go back to sleep (tried PU/PD...etc.)

A until 5:50
E 6:00
S 7:00 (very hard to settle down....)

we did the same for day 5 - things starting getting REALLY wacky though - a few visits out of the house, really seemed to throw him off track.... then we came to the current problem where I'm questioning a growth spurt?? teething?? or whether there's anything else that has thrown him wayyy off!!

looking at the transition - I do see that I pushed his feed times to far and didn't really stick to the BW's recommendations.  I think I'll try again ....

BUT, this morning was really tough - and now I'm questioning whether it is an EASY problem or something else??? He was up at about 5:45'ish a.m. I fed at 6:00 and started the wind down at 7:15.  Well, he was okay the first 5 minutes in his crib (in crib by 7:30) but then started crying.... escalating to an unconsolable cry for 45 minutes!!  he would pause for a bit as soon as I  removed him from his room (is he afraid of his room? afraid of going to sleep? afraid of being left alone???) but continued when I'd go back in ... I had a REALLY hard time settling him..... AND he was sliding himself down as if towards my boob - I resisted a few times.... but then after several minutes of NOTHING working I started thinking "what if he is hungry and I'm not feeding him???"" so , I offered the breast and he took, probably 2 ounces or so... fell asleep on the breast and in my arms... and then I laid him down into his crib, where he's been for the last 15 minutes!  I'm afraid that he's starting to show signs of wanting the breast to fall asleep .... or is he hungry again so soon?? Is it maybe time to start introducing cereals if he's hungry soo soon (after all the crying I'm sure that he worked up a good appetite...)

AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M REACHING FOR ANYTHING AT THIS POINT - I'M SOO CONFUSED AND CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON - EVERYTHING WAS REALLY GOING WELL UP UNTIL YESTERDAY.  IT TOOK US 1 HOUR AND 45 MINUTES TO PUT HIM DOWN TO SLEEP FOR THE NIGHT... IT WAS AWFUL - HE CRIED SO MUCH!  HE SLEPT WELL THROUGH THE NIGHT , BUT WE'VE ALREADY GOTTEN OFF TO A REALLY BAD START. 

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU OR ANYONE CAN SEE / SUGGEST??? please advise!!



this

[linfran]

Yes, 4 mo's can get teeth - my lo is 4.5 months and got his first two teeth three weeks ago and from the droolfest in our house this morning I reckon he's working on the next batch (oh joy!).

As well as the slobber and the chewing on anything he can get in his mouth, I noticed it really started messing with his 4 hour EASY.  He had also been sleeping 11-12 hours a night without waking but was grizzling up to five times a night.  I thought at first he was hungry but he didn't always take much of a feed so now I offer a dummy instead which settles him (yes, I know, the slippery slope to accidental parenting).

This carry-on went on a good two weeks before there was even a snifter of a tooth.  I just tried to keep his feeds at roughly the same time each day and get him to bed at the same time each night and we just muddled through the A and S bits of it.  Once the teeth came through he did settle again (then got bronchiolitis which knocked things out again).

[BoBoG]

thanks for sharing!  I don't know if this is our lo's problem - but it is comforting to know that it is a possible cause for all this wackiness!

[HeatherC]

1. when our LO's are going through a growth spurt, or they're a little off - how important is it to maintain atleast the EASY routine even if the times are way off??, as I determined that sleep is more important for him now then A as he only had 45-minutes of sleep. Is this the right approach to take?? I'm worried about him getting overtired as the day progresses if I need to follow EASY routine and he's not getting good restful sleep. I'm also worried about losing what progress we've made so far with the 4-hour EASY - will it be hard to bounce back?

Keep in mind that EASY is not by the clock.  Rather it is a tool to help you get through your day with consistency and structure, and to help you determine your lo's needs.  Things are always going to come up that change the "usualls" of your day:  feed times, length of A times, length and/or timings of naps.  When your day is going haywire, just do your best to meet your lo's needs and you'll find that you'll get back on track soon enough.  There are many BW techniques designed to help you do so. 
When your lo does not have a full nap in an EAS cycle, then yes, you should try again for a nap after then next E as to prevent overtiredness.

3. Developmentally, he showed us that he is starting to be able to roll from his tummy to his back..... how much does this type of growth affect sleep patterns?? any advice on how to handle / control disturbances??

This affects sleep in dramatic ways for some, in no way for others.  The only thing you can do is to wait for it to pass.  He'll want to practice his new skill during A time, but even with all the practice, his body is still on edge from being able to do something new, or from being on the verge of being able to do something new.

Keep in mind that it's okay if one day he feeds at 4 hrs, and the next he needs more frequent feeds, or different variations of feed intervals (3, 3.5, 4 hrs).  Just consider how your hunger level changes from day to day, meal to meal.  As for the painful cries, it might put your mind at ease to see if you can reschedule his appointment for sooner.  As an outsider unable to hear the cry or witness the situation, some of it sounds like frustration on his part-not enough A time, too much A time, needing comfort-any of these things can lead to crying and nap problems.  It's not anything you're doing wrong, it's just the typical thing- that babies have needs that we don't always understand b/c we don't speak their language, that makes them mad, but you do the best you can.  I would try to stick to your EASY the best you can so that you know at least he's been fed, he's had some play time, he should generally be needing a nap by now, etc., and that will help you rule out some of the crying.

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi I am sorry for the delay, but we had a busy day today. Because your lo keeps waking makes me think he is overtired. You said that the change wasnt that gradual which could be a problem. Some days your bub may be able to handle the extra time and others he may not. I would scale back the time a bit and watch his cues. If he seems to need more A time I would do it gradually. He did just turn 4mths so there is still time to get him on the 4hrs EASY. I would increase 10-15 min every couple of days or even longer. It took us FOREVER to get on the 4 hrs EASY. I think I extended A time 10 min every week or so. Take your time if your lo needs it.

Also, be careful about feeding to sleep. As you probably know it can be a huge problem in sleep training and will be very hard to get rid of the longer it continues. Also, topping off can be bad too as your lo's tummy gets used to being full and when it empties a bit he will feel like he needs more. If it seems that your lo cant go 4 hrs then scale it back too. Gage had a hard time as well until we introduced solids (I am not recommending that you start this though). Maybe your lo needs to eat at 3.5 hrs. There is nothing wrong with that. If you still worry your lo is getting enough, there are ways to count consumption while breastfeeding. The ladies in the breastfeeding forum can help with that. At this age your lo should be eating between 30-40 oz ( I think). They can tell you for certain about this too.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.
Alice

[BoBoG]

thank you HeatherC and Alice for all of your helpful advice.  After our 1st nap yesterday, the one that I wrote about in the post, things did improve as the day progressed.  I kept A to about 1 hour and 30-45 minutes, followed his cues very closely, and did our usual wind down for his naps.  He DID NOT go into a hysterical cry - in fact no crying at all  (why, were these naps soo different from the first one, I have NO IDEA!) - and fell asleep in his crib,on his own, and slept for about 1 hour and 30-50 minutes for each of the next two naps. 

what happened then, he woke up at 4:45 from his third nap, I fed him by 5 p.m. and we had very low key A time until about 6:15 at which time I tried to put him down for a quick little catnap (he was showing signs of being tired, rubbing his eyes, burrowing his head in my shoulders, yawning) - BUT he wouldn't settle.  He wasn't crying a lot, just whinning and unable to put himself to sleep.  By 6:40'ish I decided to start his last feed, which is usually by 7 p.m. or so, and work on  putting him down for the night, rather than working on a catnap. 

This is the part of our day that I'm ALWAYS unsure about.  Since he wakes up at 6:00 a.m. or so.. our first feed of the day is usually by 6:30 a.m.  If he doesn't have the textbook perfect naps (two 2-hour naps and one 1 hour or so nap ) during the day, we usually see him get overtired by the end of the day as he's up from about 4:45 p.m. (feeds at this time)  until he has his last feed of the day and settles down for the night... which was the BIG problem 2 nights ago as it took him 1 hour and 30 minutes to finally fall asleep after his 7 p.m. feed - meaning he was up from 4:45 p.m. to 8:30 pm. YIKES!!!

Yesterday I started the last feed a little earlier than normal, in an attempt to get him off to sleep earlier, but he still fussed and cried quite a bit, and eventually fell asleep, again, by 8:00 pm.!! (hmm... now that I look at it, is he making progress?? 1/2 hour ealier than the night before???) does either of you have any recommendations for this?? I'm assuming that as he gets older, he'll be able to stay up from 4:45 p.m. until his 7 p.m. feeding much easier (by when, who knows??) - but what do I do until then?? do I work on getting him down for a catnap or just keep tyring to move his last feed up and work on getting him down for the night??

Alice,  I'll definitely work on very gradually, increasing his A time - I see the problems that we can get into if I try to speed up the process! You mentioned that topping off can be bad too  - we've been doing this for a while now, and it really helps him to sleep through the night and kind of makes up for the calories that he may have not gotten during one of his daytime feeds.  Otherwise, if I don't top him up, that would mean that his last feed would be anywhere between 5-6 p.m.......  I don't know if he'd be able to sleep through to 6 a.m. or so then??

Heather, thank you for the reminder, "keep in mind that EASY is not by the clock" - I think that I've been following the clock too much in that I was letting time guide me in what should be happening next.  Having done this every day, I was starting to get really tired and quite anxious about timing and planning his feeds, naps, A's.....   I'm beginning to recognize that I need to chill out a bit and go with the flow... just keeping the EASY pattern and not living by the clock!!  I hope that I can develop those skills too (LOL!! and REALLY start to enjoy being a mom rather than a professional time keeper!!

thanks soo much! 

[corrina01]

Bobo

I had written a long reply to your post last night, and now it has gone.  I will reply again tonight, as I am at work today.

[BoBoG]

okay, thanks Corrina!

[corrina01]

Heather has already replied to your first question.

2.  is it possible that a 4-month old can be teething???

It is very possible.  My DD began teething at 3 months.  She got her 1st tooth at 41/2months and 2nd tooth at 5 months.

I've noticed a big change in his crying and I wonder if its a pain cry, which I don't believe that we've heared yet?? We are scheduled for his 4-month doctor's visit next week - but does anything have any insight or experience to share with us??

When you go to the Drs.  just let the dr. check in his mouth to see if any teeth are on the move, also get the Dr. to check his ears as some babies do get ear infections when they are teething.

3.  Developmentally, he showed us that he is starting to be able to roll from his tummy to his back..... how much does this type of growth affect sleep patterns?? any advice on how to handle / control disturbances

Heather has already replied to this, but just wanted to add when my DD has learnt something new it normally affects her sleeping for about 3 days some babies this affects sleep for about a week.

You just have to go with the flow, but this will pass quite quickly.  One thing you might have a go, is during his A times practice rolling from back to tummy, make it fun and praise him alot.


I think you should go to a 3.5hr EASY as he can handle 1hr 30mins A time quite easily.  My DD was on 3.5hr EASY till she was 6 months and could handle being up for 2hrs.  You could always do 4hrs A time from when he first wakes up in the morning and then the rest 3.5hrs.

Any more questions feel free to ask.
 
HTH

[BoBoG]

thanks Corrina.  do you have any suggestions for the issue of him being up from 4:45 pm. and sometimes not falling asleep until 8:30 p.m.?? is there even time for a catnap during this stretch?  His last feed is usually 7 p.m. or so... but since he starts his day by 6 a.m. or so, do you think his last feed should be 6:30'ish?? will he still be able to sleep the same amount of time, right through???

BoboG

[corrina01]

I would put to bed early like 6-6.30pm, this way he isn't going to be overtired and will sleep better.  I have always found with my DD if she has had short naps all day, I put her to bed earlier and she sleeps the same amount or slightly more.

Hope this helps.

[BoBoG]

Yes, thank you.  My husband is trying to put him down now (its 6:30 p.m.) as his last nap was only 35 minutes.  I'll keep you posted on how it works out. 

thank you soo much for all of your time and help!

Bobo

[HeatherC]

I just realized that my post didn't go through earlier, so here it was...I hope it doesn't repeat anything that has been said since.

You mentioned that topping off can be bad too - we've been doing this for a while now, and it really helps him to sleep through the night and kind of makes up for the calories that he may have not gotten during one of his daytime feeds. Otherwise, if I don't top him up, that would mean that his last feed would be anywhere between 5-6 p.m....... I don't know if he'd be able to sleep through to 6 a.m. or so then??

I think she was referring to topping up again before a nap (?).  Please correct me if I'm wrong, gage's mom.  Topping up before bed can be done for many months from what I've read from other moms.

You are right in trying to do bedtime a bit earlier, especially on days with short naps.  I remember that when dd started refusing the catnap (around 5 months), I would instead take her into the nursery and have some quiet cuddle time in the rocking chair.  She wouldn't fall asleep, but I would rock her quietly, maybe with some light music in the background.  It helped her recharge to make it through the rest of the evening until she eventually no longer needed that.  I think if he's not having the catnap, and bedtime is a tad too late, then the overtiredness just begins to compound until it spirals out of control.  I'd aim for starting winddown around 6:30, and that can include his last feed.