9 1/2 months - Jekyl and Hyde baby!

[mumstheword]

How old is your child?
9 1/2 month old boy
What’s his/her daily routine?
Until about 6 weeks ago:
7am wake and bf
8am porridge with fruit
9am nap (1.5 - 2 hrs)
11am bf (not much interest)
12am meat, veggie (abut 100grams)
1pm nap (1.5 -  2hrs)
3pm bf
5.30 cat nap (30 mins)
6pm porridge
7pm bf and bed

Currently bf often during the night due to wakings.

What’s nap routine?
Nap times without fuss
How long are naps?
2 x 1.5 - 2hrs, + cat nap (45 minutes)
What's bedtime routine? Time?
PJs, singing, bed - 7pm
Do you bottle or breastfed??
bf
How much? or how long?
5 - 10 minutes total, every 4 hours
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)
both
How many wakes per night?
currently every 2 - 3 hours
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?
Used to wake when hungry, feed and back to sleep (10 minutes). Currently awake at 10pm, 2am, 4am, 5am, 6am and 7am. Absolutely inconsolable, screaming, arching back, will take breast once calmed down. Will calm down if I walk around a little, but screams immediately when layed down (not just his bed).
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?
Mostly mantra
What have you tried to settle??
Music, patting, PU/PD, cuddling, bf
What do you do for A time and how long is it?
Playmat with toys, stories, singing - 4 hour easy routine
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?
Has 6 teeth and rolls everywhere - does not sit independently or crawl!
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)
Do they have a prop? If so what is it?
Paci for sleep only
Do they have a lovie?
Yes, since birth

I really hope someone can help, we are at our wits end. Our DS only ever slept through over a period of about 3 weeks. For about 6 weeks now he has been waking for a feed at around 11pm (about the norm for him) but whats new is that he is waking at 1.30 am, fusses at first and after 5 minutes goes into a mantra cry. When I pick him up he arches his back, nothing helps - cuddling, rocking, singing, talking. After 15 minutes or so he'll calm down, till I try to put him down again. If he takes the bf, he goes back down without fuss, but mostly won't take it. Then he wakes up crying at 4, 5, 6 and 7 and i bf him immediately each time, otherwise he crescendos.
I think I have already done some classic accidental parenting here, but I have no idea what the 1.30 am issue is. During the day he is happy and smiling (everyone comments on how happy he seems).
Please help, it's breaking my heart to see him cry so hard.

[teezee]

if lo is mantra crying then let him go! usually the back arching in this kind of situation means that he wants to settle himself. i wouldn't resort to rocking, talking etc...as lo is trying to learn to settle himself and he will just learn bad habits from the other. i def don't think you should feed that many times in the night for the same reason i mentioned about the rocking - just creating a cycle and a bad habit. i wouldn't think that your lo needs to feed that often at night..and he will come to expect it for the comfort. try comforting lo in the crib by shhhing/or patting/or just leaving a hand on him - or any combo that will work for you. let lo first mantra cry and if it turns into the 'i need you NOW' mommy cry than go to him then. you def have to be consistant with everything you do as lo will not know what to expect and will be even more confused and will cry even more as he will think he's gonna get x.

your lo def does not need that catnap at this age - most lo's drop it between 6-8 months. his naps also seem a bit long - maybe try cutting the first nap down to an hr or so and leave the second one the way it is as if he's getting too much sleep during the day he won't be tired enough to sleep through the early hrs in the am hence imo the 4 - 5- 6- 7 wakings. you should also extend lo's A time - i think he can most def go longer periods than 2 hrs in the am before the first nap - could also be contributing the night wakings if lo isn't tired enough for the naps during the day...esp that am A time and nap as that is looked at as an extension of night sleep so it 'should' be the shortest A time during the day but imo it is still to short for a nine month old. extend the A times every few days by 15 min or so, keeping the extra time very very low key so lo doesn't get overtired/overstimulated..even though he may give tired signals - keep him up that little bit of extra time every few days til you find a good balance. if he shows tired signs it is prob b/c he is used to going for a nap a that time kwim? also, ifyou check out the easy forum you will find in the faq's sample routines for lo's of all ages which may help you alter the A time and nap times appropriately - all lo's are different and use those as a guide to figure out the uniqueness of your lo's routine

it does sound like lo is getting his feedings confused b/c of the night feedings as he seems to be totally refusing some day feedings. there is a link in the night wakings faq's that will help you - called how i stopped night feeds with a nine month old. i used it at 6 months to help my lo as i did the same thing you have been doing - i think i was the poster child for AP so don't feel bad there is hope

hth! good luck! let me know if you have any further questions

[mumstheword]

Oh dear, looks like I'm doing everything wrong. This is very confusing though - what should his schedule look like now? How do I reconcile this with a 4 hr EASY?  Thanks you so much again for your help!

[teezee]

no you aren't doing everything wrong! most importantly you have had your lo on a routine - that's most important imo!! you just have some tweaking to do..usually when sleep habits start changing ie up at night etc and you have ruled out pain, discomfort, etc it just means you have some tweaking to do - we all go through it - and we have all i am sure not realized that has needed to be done

6:15ish wake and play in crib
7:00 breastfeed and then solids
9:00 nap (anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours)
11:00 breastfeed and then solids
1:00 nap (anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours)
3:00 breastfeed
5:00 solids
6:30-7:00 (depending on how tired he is) bottle and straight to bed

that is one of the routines copied from the easy board for a nine month old. and here is one for an 8 month old...as you see times really do vary from lo to lo so start moving closer to what you see and you will know when you find what is right as your lo will start sleeping better - just be sure to go slowly 15 min at a time every few days (or whatever your lo seems to handle without becoming overtired) and keep the extra time very very low key. if you want to look at some more sample routines to get an even better idea i will post the link after the 8 month routine


6:30-6:45           Wake
7:00                  Eat
9:30                  Nap
10:30-11:00       Bottle/sometimes Smiley
12:00                Lunch
1:00-1:30          Bottle/Nap
2:30-3:00          snack
4;30-5:30          Dinner
5:45-6:00          Bath
6:30-6:45          Sleep/bottle (goes right through)

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=10386.0

don't worry if lo sleeps into the next feeding a bit longer than 4 hrs - all is well - and lo will wake if hungry. i used to give my lo a drink of water before naps so she wouldn't feel hungry but would have an empty belly when she woke since water is digested much faster.

with dropping that catnap for a bit you may need to put lo to bed earlier til he can handle longer A times to prevent overtiredness.

here is the other link i told you about -- weaning night feeds - depending on how long you have been feeding in the night you may need to take a crack at it this way rather than cutting out the feedings cold turkey, as lo does need the feeding at that time right now and he def would be hungry if it has cut into his daytime intake. i know it is all a bit overwhelming - but get your mind wrapped around it and come up with a plan/goal and stick to it - that's most important - consistancy!

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

if after you have tweaked there are still wakings you may need to cut down on naps a bit and i said i would shorten the am one..but worry about that later after you have the rest ironed out. if you need anything else let me know

good luck!

[mumstheword]

Thank you so much!

This is the routine we started yesterday:

7.30   - breastfeed and solid
10.00 - Nap (1.5hrs)
12     - breasfteed and solids
2.30  - Nap (1.5 hrs)
4.00  - Breastfeed
6.00  - Solids
7.00  - Breastfeed top up and bed

He doesn't seem to be having problems with being awake for longer, as long as I keep him busy. Last night he woke at 12.30, took a full feed and then slept till 6, feed, then again till 7.30. So it looks like its working already.

Is this routine OK or does it still need tweaking?

[teezee]

it looks pretty good to me!! 

the only one who can be sure though is your lo

it seems to be doing the trick though. now i think you just will have to work on weaning the night feedings...you are well on your way! told you that you weren't too far off

when/if lo starts waking erratically again, and you know it isn't teeth or something of the sort - try tweaking times a bit - usually when all else is ruled out that is the case.

good luck and keep me posted.

i will be away for a wk or so but will get caught up when i get back - keep up the great work!!!

[mumstheword]

After the success of night one, everything has remained the same. Yesterday he was awake at 10pm (didn't feed) , 1.00 am (left side), 2.00 am (right side), 5am (left side), 6am (right side) and then woke at 8am. I really don't know what to do.  I'll keep up the routine until you get back, nothing to loose.
 
Thanks again

[teezee]

so how are things - sorry i was away somewhat longer than i had anticipated 

i really hope things have improved for you - fingers crossed you have some good news to report.

[mumstheword]

Hi,

I do have good news - my ds has slept through 9 nights in a row, from 7pm till 6am. I feel like I've been on vacation!! It's still difficult stretching times between naps, but he has adapted very well. Thank you so much for your help!!

[teezee]

just wanted to say congrats!!! wtg to you and your lo