Reducing b/f nws in a 9.5 month old

[katriona]

Hi ladies,

DS has gone back to wanting b/fs at about 10pm and 3pm; sometimes another one at 5.30am, if I feel like he hasn't had enough rest and shouldn't be starting the day so early. This is totally AP related as I felt so sorry for him during his last teething jag; And I totally acknowledge that feeding him at night has become a prop for him to go back to sleep.

As a result, he's got used to having the majority of his nutrition at night: He chows down during these two feeds for at least 8 minutes from one side per time. I'm lucky to get 8 minutes from both sides during the daytime feedings; I suspect because he's distracted quite easily, and he's simply just not hungry given that he eats so much at night.

I know that at 9.5 months DS could go the whole night, and could certainly go an 8/9 hour stretch. I'd like to fix things so that at least we have only one nw after 3am (he goes to bed between 6pm and 7pm depending on tiredness; usually 6.20pm ish).

I'm late in coming to you for advice, in that I started trying to stop the nw b/fs last night. Given that he's used to eating at night, and presumably would be "hungry," I set myself the goals of tackling the feeds one at a time (starting with the earliest) of offering him water for thirst, and soothing him till 1am, at which point I would feed him on one side and put him back down. My aim is to get him used to longer periods at night without milk so that his body doesn't wake expecting it at that time.

Well, he woke later than usual, at about 11.30pm. He didn't resettle till 1am when I fed him. I offered him water twice, which he took, and he was calm in my arms while I gave it to him. The fussing started when I put him back down without a feed. It continued off and on for the 1.5 hours till I fed him. He wasn't really upset enough to be continuing pu/pd throughout the whole 90 minutes; but there were a few spikes when I did. And of course once he was fed, he was content.

Do you ladies have any advice, or thoughts about the way I'm going about this?  I would go cold turkey except I do think he's at the stage where his body expects the nourishment at that time of night. I would gradually reduce the minutes I b/f, except my letdown can take a minute or two, and we're going to reach a point where I unlatch before DS even gets anything!

The one good thing is that after the 1am feed he skipped straight through to his wake-up time of 6.20am (I can hear him starting to wake on the monitor). He missed his other wake-ups of 3am and 5.30am. I'm not claiming any credit for that however; I think he was tired from being awake for 90 minutes in the night. Let's just hope that I don't have an overtired boy on my hands today  .

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Katy

How old is your child?
9.5 mos

What’s his/her daily routine?
down at 6.30pm ish; up at 6.30am ish; 2 naps, A times of 3 hrs; 3.5 hrs; 4 hrs

What’s nap routine?
quiet play time, books, lights out, twinkle twinkle, lovie, in crib.

How long are naps?
AM 45 mins. PM 1 hr 20 mins.

What's bedtime routine? Time?
Bath, b/f, massage, jammies, books with daddy, into crib. starts about 45 mins before bedtime.

Do you bottle or breastfed??
b/f

How much? or how long?
4 times pd. 8-10 minutes per feed.

If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)
Both

How many wakes per night?
Currently 2-3.

What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?
Cries/fusses. Up till I b/f, then back to sleep.

When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?
Suspect it's more fussing than real "I need you" crying.

What have you tried to settle??
pu/pd when necessary. water. singing twinkle twinkle. back rubbing till sleepy. b/f.

What do you do for A time and how long is it?
1st: 3 hrs. 2nd: 3.5 hrs. 3rd; 4 hours. Play with toys; work on crawling; rotate through different rooms in the house; go for walks outside; play in paddling pool.

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?
Teething and crawling.

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)
n/a

Do they have a prop? If so what is it?
My boobs! 

Do they have a lovie?
Yes.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Hi Katy,

Sounds to me like you're already on top of things and have this figured out! To wean the night feed(s), check out this sticky in the FAQ section -
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

It really works. My DS is FF and I did the water down method, and it took only 4 days.    You shouldn't have much trouble getting Theron back on track.

[katriona]

Thanks, Jessica. Could you repost that link? It's coming up as a 404 for me.

I guess I naively thought that some miracle would be worked with this lifelong habit of night-time eating. Last night we were again up from 11.30pm till he ate at 1am. 6 minutes at his direction this time, back down in the crib awake, and immediately back to sleep till 6.30am this morning.

Am I setting him up to believe that if he cries for long enough I'll cave in? I'm starting to get a little fuzzy and indecisive from sleep deprivation.

Katy

[Colin Macs Mom]

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0

Hopefully that will work 

I don't know that you're setting yourself up exactly... but some los do need a night feed until about a year. It's not real common, but you might have one of those. Hard to say - only you can know for sure if he really NEEDS that feed or if it's habit, KWIM?

[katriona]

That came up just fine -- thanks!

I know... Even my ped said that she b/f her LO up till he was a year old during the night if he woke after 4am and seemed hungry. We've had sufficiently long where he just had one feed at about 3am that I do think the 11pm one is a habit we've got into.  Well, we'll keep at it. The good thing is that his daytime feeds have been more substantial the past two days, so we're making progress there. I'm just concerned that he's lost 3 hours sleep in the past 48 hours. Hopefully tonight will be better.

Thanks for the support!

[seaflower]

Sorry, don't have much time at the moment to read all replies (and if I don't post now I'll lose the thread, otherwise it saves it in 'my messages' )

DD was feeding all night long until few weeks ago, she was co-sleeping and nursing every hour! I am not sure what is the best approach but I went with gradual spacing between feeds, first every 3 hours (and hte rest of the time get her to sleep in another way). When I was happy she wasn't starving (which only took few days, btw) we streched to every four hours, then ones at the middle of the night and now she breastfeeds at 6:30pm and again at 6:30am. She wasn't a very happy bunny the first few nights and needed lots of reassurance but a month later I can't imagine I was feeding her all night long for so long!

Good luck and hope it is a smooth transition for you.

[katriona]

wow, seaflower! that's a success story and a half! well done you and your little princess 

so i have some small success to report on the nw b/fs. i decided to quit the pu/pd approach till 1am, as for the first two nights theron woke at 11.30pm and wouldn't settle till i fed him at the assigned time of 1am. his appetite did seem to pick up the following days, but he was a tired old mess given that he'd lost 90 minutes of sleep each night and wasn't making up for it at naps or by sleeping in. our sleep schedule is so fragile anyway that i didn't want to solve the feed problems only to start on the sleep!

i've also realised from reading other posts that i've been jumping the gun at going in to him, and trying to soothe him in order to keep the house quiet for DH and what seems like our constant stream of guests. so last night i decided to really listen to him, and give him time to work things out for himself if he wasn't "calling" for me. well, he woke at 10pm, just as i'd finally got to sleep.    no way was i feeding him so early! i stood quietly outside his door, listening to him fuss, and after 10 minutes, he cooed at himself and went quiet. wow! he woke at 2.30am (and I fed him); then again at 4.30am. As DH was just getting up for work at that time, I was able to lay in bed and listen to theron fuss; again he quietened himself down and fell back asleep -- till 6.15am! it wasn't CIO at all, but just letting him fuss and soothe himself. it was still hard to listen to, but i've realized there is a definite difference now. and i feel a lot better for having got more sleep myself, even if i was awake several times!

hopefully this bodes well for future nights.

one question. i timed the 2.30am feed and noticed that it was three minutes before i felt my let down and noticed a significant change in his swallowing. after a further three minutes he pulled himself off and looked at me, which is the sign to pop him back in the crib awake. how much milk do you think he's getting before i let down? my boobs are pretty full at that time in the morning. i'm just trying to figure out how to do the gradual reducing when my let down takes so long. i was pretty stressed about the whole thing though...

thanks!

katy

[seaflower]

Well done! Sounds as you are defenitelly making some progress!!

No idea how to measure how much is he taking, but I know DD can down huge amounts in only minutes. May be try a bottle instead, that way you can control the amount and also break the association of breastfeeding. Ideally it will be your DH giving him a bottle. At this age I also was planning to substitute the BF with water, but luckily DD stopped pretty quickly so there was no need for that.

Yes, we have come a long way with DD but unfortunatelly she still doesn't sleep through the night, she never did! At least now when I am not nursing DH does every second night settling so I manage to get more sleep. She defenitelly used to settle much quicker for him at the begining, obviously knew he is not going to feed her.