We had a good thing, what happened? Is it me?

[renollem]

I'm pretty sure my 3 mo daughter just can't resettle herself.  I've been working with the shh-pat, swaddle one arm out... and I'm losing my confidence.  I'm doing this alone, have a husband but he's not on board with all of this.
   Am I right?
   Do I keep on with the shh-pat,
   move to PU/PD
   or do I just give up entirely like I feel like right now.  I'm not sure I have what it takes to stick with BW tactics

I've been awake for over an hour.  My daughter only needed me for about 20 min.  I'm just so paniced I can't sleep.  I lost a good thing and feel like a failure.

My daughter has been a good night sleeper for a long time.  For a while she was making it until 4:00 am or 5:00am after finally falling asleep 9 or 10pm (yes, I know that's bad we were trying anything for hours -before going back to shh-pat)  Naps were getting worse but night sleep was still good.  She went 6 days in a row without a wake up.  10-11 hours of sleep!  For 5 days or so now she's been waking up again.  Different times 3:45, 3:00, 2:45  I assumed she was hungry at first because of the different times.  But she's not nursing that long.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong anymore, but it seems like all my efforts to fix things are failing and I should just give up. 

I really don't want to let her cry it out and never have, but I feel like all the things I've been trying are just making her more and more dependent on me.


How old is your child? 3 mo and a few days

What’s his/her daily routine?  What’s nap routine?
trying to follow 3.5 -4 hr EASY but started taking 45 min naps.  Have been working to extend  We end up with EASA EASA (Y time is missing because I have a 2 yr too)
How long are naps? sometimes 2 hrs, sometimes 45 min

What's bedtime routine? Time? bath 6:45, walk around house briefly as I get toddler involved in something, turn on music and white noise, swaddle, sit a moment, shh-pat on shoulder, move to shh-pat in bed usually not asleep until 7:30 because takes a while to shh-pat or the 2 yr interrupts

Do you bottle or breastfed?? breastfeed
How much? or how long? between 10-20 min
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) both

How many wakes per night? had been 1 early between 4-5 for weeks, then none for 6 days!, now all over between 1 and 3:30
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? fussing gets progressively louder and more demanding
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? it may be mantra, I've been trying to wait until on the verge of crying
What have you tried to settle?? reswaddle, shh-pat over shoulder
What do you do for A time and how long is it? sit upright in carseat for 30 min (reflux) watch sister and me, talk to her, sing to her... then lay her down on tummy or back, then pick back up or put back in seat if fussy with being on back/ tummy
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? for weeks now has been doing some rolling side to side
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) no
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? paci has come and gone, but been gone for 3 weeks
Do they have a lovie? not yet, too young I think

encourage me please
I know that I have had it good and still do compared to some.  I'm just frustrated because I feel like I've ruined a good thing and want to know how to get back on track

[andibig]

sweetie don't give up now!!!
can't over you much advise but the wonderful ladies will help you get back on track. this site is wonderful for support .
i know its stressful but you will get through this (easy for me to say i know).
if you get a chance could you post her routine?
you are not a failure and believe me when i say we have all have this periods of self doubt

[andibig]

back again (food shopping arrived!)

as i was saying as mothers we all have this time when we feel like everything we do is wrong. other than DH (who should be pulling his weight-their his children as well) is there anybody else you could ask for help (MIL, friend etc) just to give you a little break.

hope it gets better for you.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Andrea

[renollem]

sample routine

E 7:00 (sometimes wakes at 6:00 so I just adjust everything else an hour)
A 7:25
S 8:45 or 9:00 (but sometimes tired at 8:15, I either put her to sleep or try to get her invovled in something and keep her awake, struggling with this)
   may sleep 2 hrs, may sleep 35 min

E start between 10:00-11:00 (if she has a great nap then we're on track.  If not I usually give up 20 min or so of shh-pat and let her play until 10:00, she's not as happy)
A
S start between 11:30-1:00 (if she didn't get more than 30-40 min with first nap I need to put her down earlier when I see cues...but I have to keep her upright for a while after eating because of reflux)
   may sleep 35 min or 1 hr

E start between 1:00- 2:00
A
S start between 1:45 -3:00 (depends on when she was awake and how previous naps have been)
  yesterday she had 4 naps 3 30 min and a really late long one 3:40-5:40 (I woke her up and considered her catnap in the mix)

E start between 3:00-4:00
A
S catnap during walk 5:00-5:30 (I have to get out of the house)

E 5:45- 6:00 or so after we return
A bath -sometimes feed her a little again after bath
S start at 7:00 but not asleep until 7:30 

Had not been doing the dreamfeed because I didn't need it.  Was sleeping until 4:00 or 5:00 on her own.
Tried adding another feed after bath somedays when she didn't settle well.  Made sure to have 10 min or so of activity afterwards

E- when she wakes between 1 and 5  Has varied tremendously



I do have friends and a mom who have helped at various times by taking my toddler.  I asked my mom to take my toddler for 3 mornings so I could really focus on the baby.  That got the shh-pat and swaddling wind down to start working.  But I was hoping for it to get easier faster.  I could ask my mom to take my toddler again but I'm not even sure what I'd work on.  I'd really rather she take the baby for a few mornings, but I want to have the consistency of putting her to bed.  gma will just rock her and then I'll be back to square one.  same with dad.  I'm starting to want to just rock her because that at least is relaxing to me.

E
A
S

[renollem]

I do want to mention that I realize I have it very good.  I'm just paranoid that something I'm doing is making her wake in the middle of the night again. 

I don't think it's a growth spurt because she's not eating more during the day. 

[holdensmom]

hi there!
just wanted to say i am the exact same situation, my ds is 3 months and few days also. he was sleeping pretty well, going to bed ay 7 then up at around 4-5 for a feed then bacl to sleep till 7. however now he has been waking up multiple times in the night, sometimes an hour or two apart. i KNOW how frustrating it is! he was soo good. for a while now he seems to be worse than ever! he used to go down very easy for naps. now that is out the window as well. dont worry, i do believe it will get better. looking for some help here from all you ladies who have any suggestion!!

[renollem]

glad to know I'm not alone. 

thanks

I called the pediatrition to get her perspective on what is ok to do. She said keep comforting her and not to do any sort of controlled crying until at least 4 mon.  Not that I want to do that at all, I'm just starting to feel desparate.  I'm going to keep at it.

[andibig]

def agree that controlled crying is not the way to go!! as you know on this site CC is never used as it breaks the trust between your LO and you. glad you are going to keep at it. sleep training is tough and setbacks are to be expected ( ) but it will pay off in the end (honest!!). i was wondering if your mom could have your older LO over to stay for the w/end which would give you time to concentrate on DD.
BTW i think you are doing a marvellous job coping with two young LOs

ANdrea

[renollem]

thank you for the kind words, almost in tears.  I'm really at a low point right now. 

I may ask mom to take my older daughter but not this weekend because of the 4th of July holiday weekend.  everyone is busy...

Used W2S after she was asleep for 20 min and she's actually taking over an hour nap at the moment.  She had 2 other 40 min naps and has been up since 6:15.  She definitely needs to sleep right now.  Hopefully this will help with the nighttime wake too. 

thank you, thank you, thank you for responding everyone. 

[Zoey]

Hi hun.

I was reading through your posts here and I just wanted to add something.  It's not at all abnormal for a LO of 3 months to wake 1-2 times per night to feed.  Owen had a DF at 11p and he woke to feed at 3am up until he was 4month and 2 weeks old.  He still gets a DF at 1030p now and he is 5months and 2 weeks.

In regards to the reflux: Is the head of the crib elevated?  We have a few rolled towels under the head of the mattress - its pretty steep so I took a rolled blanket and taped it to the mattress (under the fitted sheet) where Owen's feet set.  I call it a speed bump and it keeps him from sliding down to the bottom of the crib.  Lol.  Also, is your LO on medication for reflux?  Some of those meds, like Zantac - the dose is calculated by LO's weight.  So, as they grow, they need an increase in the medication.  Have you been to the reflux board?  Great place, go visit!

I see you are adjusting her A time after she has a 45 min nap - that's very good, just remember to include her wind down in that A time.  Meaning, if she only sleeps 45 mins, she will most likely only be able to handle an hour or an hour and 15 mins of A time, but 10-15 mins of that should be doing the wind down.  Does that make sense?  Even 10-15 mins over what she can handle can make her overtired and hard to settle and will make her wake up and the transition mark (45mins)

There were many a day that Owen had 4 to 5 45 min naps AND an early bed time.  You have to get them sleep somehow lol.  If your Easy isn't perfect while you are playing with naps, don't fret.  So long as there is something in between the E and the S then you are fine!

I say keep up with the pat/shh.  Experiment with it - could there be another way she may like better?  Rubbing, humming, singing, soft talking, nothing.  Butt patting, butt rubbing, back rubbing, a slight butt jiggle, rubbing her head, a firm hand on her back.  You can play with any of these and still use the method of pat/shh - meaning don't help her more then she needs you to.

Don't give up!  You have come so long - I encourage you to go back and read all of your posts and see how far you and sh have come!  You are doing fine, don't be so hard on yourself.  It's ok if she needs 1 or 2 feeds at night, she is still really young.  I know you need to sleep and it's hard with a toddler.  But, this is such a short time in the whole scheme of things.  This time will fly by and she will be sleeping like a champ. 

Chin up love,
Zoey

[renollem]

Thank you so much for all the kind words.  That's what I really needed more than a solution.  My emotions are just so up and down it's hard for me to think straight.

I tried the W2S with her first nap this morning and she stayed asleep -2 hr 10 min nap Yippeee!  Going to try again with this nap.. oh I'd better go do that real quick it's already been almost 20 min.  Where does the time go?

That is so scary to do... I'm always afraid I'm going to wake her up and lose the little bit of sleep she is getting...  We'll see what happens.

I think I will go back and look at my posts.  I know I have come a long way.  3 weeks ago I had been doing anything and everything when I put her to sleep.  It was a guessing game each time.  It would often take me 40 min and that was with props!  If a prop had worked well, I probably wouldn't given in to it.  I'm glad in a way they didn't.  The car does work like a charm, but I can't pack up and drive somewhere for every time she needs to sleep.  But even then she would sometimes get annoyed when I stopped at traffic lights and such...

I think my lo is extra sensitve to her surroundings and she's becoming more and more alert.  Those things combined make it very hard for her to drift off to sleep. 

I've been playing with the shh-pat.  She seems to like a gentler pat and a not so loud shhh  I'm getting better about reading her sleepy cues too.  I don't always catch a yawn But I know when she starts looking away and isn't entertained by my singing to her and touching her cheeks and chin ... then she's done with playing.  I've started carrying her around on my arm (belly on the arm) or close in a snuggly sort of way as I get my toddler involved in a snack, tv show, or some sort of toy.  Sometimes that's calming and helps before I get into the real wind down routine.

I like your tip on using 10-15 min of wind down before nap when she's had short nap prior to that. 

She does have medicine for reflux.  It's possible she needs a higher dose.  We got the medicine at 10 weeks (over the phone) based on her 7 week check up information.  I'm sure she weighs a lot more by now.  We go back in 3 more weeks, so unless I see strong signs her medicine isn't doing the trick I'll probably wait and ask then.

Thanks for listening.  And I'm posting all the details in case my story helps someone else.  I know I like reading everyone elses ideas.

going to go get some laundry started.  I think she's going to make this a real nap.  Still haven't hit the 38 min mark yet, but I'm optomistic.

[Zoey]

You doing great with wake to sleep - I too am scared when i go in and do it lol.

Just  tad more advice, although you are tempted to let her sleep until she wakes, you really want to limit the naps to 2 hours because you don't want to rob other naps and night sleep.  It's not like 10 mins is a huge deal but you know what I mean.  I know, its like a juggling act. 

And perhaps what I said was unclear about wind downs...  She should always have a wind down prior to naps and when you get your routine straightened out, you will want to always do that wind down 10-15 (how ever long your wind down takes) before the nap starts, so it should always be part of the A time so she won't get overstimulated.  So even when her A time is 2 hours (in the future) you will start the wind down at 1 hour and 45mins into the A time. 

Also, I'd call the pedi about the meds, it really could be the root of your troubles with sleep.  I have been to the pedi (or called) several times for an increase because I can tell the second it is starting to not be effective.  If it isn't the right dose, it's really like giving her nothing at all.  Just my opinion - reflux is horrible to suffer with, and if you can fix it with the right medication dose, then why not? 

Big Hugs
Zoey

[renollem]

In case anyone was really jealous of the fact my lo was sleeping through the night...wanted you to know it hasn't happened in 2 weeks or more. 

She's back to waking ever 4-6 hours for food.

I'm having a better time putting her to sleep, but definitely can't follow the 4 hr EASY

I don't know what to do.  Guess I'll just go with her schedule and hope for the best