EARLY WIDE AWAKE CLUB!! WANT SUPPORT? JOIN US!

[Tor]

Hi

Can I join in, it's so weird reading the posts as I am having exactly the same questions and problems.  My LO has started waking at 5am having been sleeping from 7.15 to 6.30 sometimes waking at 5 for a feed but going straight back down, it's soooo depressing, I didn't follow EASY at all with my first DS and I ended up getting up at five am for two years and I so don't want to go back down that route.

The main problem I have is when he wakes early when I leave him or do PU/PD it wakes my other DS so the past three days we have all been up since about 5.15 and everyone is tired and teasy!

Alfie is a good baby and eats well generally, doesn't have as much formula as some, he is about 22lb although not had weighed for ages.

I work and it's so hard concentrating at work having got up so early.

I have posted his routine, any suggestions would be appreciated.

He has all homemade vegetables and fruit

Bottle 6oz when he wakes, used to be at about 6.30
breakfast cereal 3 heaped dessert spoons at 8am mixed with 3oz of cows milk
Sleeps 9.30- 11
Toast or cracker or bit of fruit (just small snack)
5oz at midday
solids at 12.15 ish 3 ice cubes of veggies, 3 of fruit
sleeps 1.30 - 3
5oz 4.30
Solids 5pm 3 ice cubes of veggies, 3 of fruit and small petit filous
Cracker or some toast
6.30 bath and quiet time
7oz at 7pm and bed after
7oz df 10.30

This tiredness wears you down I think.

Thanks
Tor

[LisaM]

Hi Tor

I don't have any answers I'm afraid but just can definitely empathise with you, the tiredness does get to you in the end and I find myself being really quick tempered with my other lo and then feel absolutely terrible because none of this is her fault, poor thing.

AlsoI know what you mean about waking your eldest son up, Grace has woken Phoebe up a few times really early too so it does put you off trying to get them back to sleep because if I just cave in and take her downstairs at least Feebs will get some extra sleep. 

I think for us the problem could be overtiredness as she doesn't nap well at all either most days but for you it looks as though your ds sleeps well during the day - has it been since the clocks changed?  Could it be too light in his room?

I hope things go back to normal for you soon.

Brooke - quick update - we had a really good nap day yesterday, she had only 45 for the very early one but then the others were 1 hr 20 and then 1 hr 30 so thought might get a good night but was worse than normal!! She woke at 1am ish, I had to move her back down the cot as usual, then she was quiet for ages but took her about 45 mins to go back off (not too bad for her), then she woke again at 3.30!!  Not back to lots of NW I hope.  Do you think that she would need to have lots of good days to see any improvement in the NW and early mornings?  She did go back off to sleep after a bit but then woke at 4.55am - she seems to have an internal clock which makes me think that whatever happens this is the time she will wake as she had only been back off for about 40 mins so I had hoped she might go til 6am, no chance!

[Tor]

Hi

I am in that mode of massive guilt as I really snapped at Harry today and although he had been really naughty I would not normally loose it with him it's just the tiredness.

Last night Alfie woke at 2.30 which he has not done since he was only a couple of weeks, I did pu/pd for over an hour and gave him calpol but he would not go off so eventually I gave him a bottle and he went off, now I feel so fed up as I gave in feeding him and feel on a slippery slope to bad habits.

Hope things improve for you soon, I hate it when you look at the clock in the am and it's 4 something, even if it is 5.05 in your head it'a lot better than 4.58.

Keep me posted.

Tor

[texasmom]

Hi Tor,
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles.  Try not to be hard on yourself.  You are doing the best you can. 

Had a question for ya.  Do you happen to keep a log of your LO's sleep?  It was helpful for me to go back and see when the early wakings started.  That's how I figured out it started due to being overtired.  How long has it been going on? 

What does a day look like now that he is up at 5?  Is it this?  In other words, is he up from 5-9:30?

Bottle 6oz when he wakes, used to be at about 6.30
breakfast cereal 3 heaped dessert spoons at 8am mixed with 3oz of cows milk
Sleeps 9.30- 11
Toast or cracker or bit of fruit (just small snack)
5oz at midday
solids at 12.15 ish 3 ice cubes of veggies, 3 of fruit
sleeps 1.30 - 3
5oz 4.30
Solids 5pm 3 ice cubes of veggies, 3 of fruit and small petit filous
Cracker or some toast
6.30 bath and quiet time
7oz at 7pm and bed after
7oz df 10.30

Just wanted to know those couple of things and then maybe I can help.  ??  Did you see the link I posted to Lisa?  I thought it had some good advice. 

Lisa,
It will definitely take days to see improvement.  I say try to go for the 14 hours per day for a week and then see what happens.  What was she doing before the early wakings started?  How many hours of sleep per day (24 hours) and bedtime/wake?  I might use that to help me decide bedtime.  Like if she used to sleep 7-6 and now wakes at 5, I'd have her asleep at 6.  Or earlier if bad naps.  Those naps are great, though.  Improving, maybe...   

Sorry if I sound short.  Ugh, we've had a rough few nights.  Teething and a cold and now overtired b/c of it all. 

[Tor]

Hi

Thanks for replying.

Yes if he gets up at 5 or six he stays up til 9.30 but there is a reason, I work four days a week and he goes to a childminder two/three days but even on the other days I/or my partner have to take other LO to Playgroup and we don't get back from there until 9.25 and we put him straight to bed as does the childminder, we have tried other things but there is no way around this, on my work days I leave at 7.45 and he is dropped to the childminder and she does a school run then does the playgroup drop then back to put Alfie to sleep.  I am sure it's over tiredness but alot of it stems from the days he is at the childminder and there is not alot I can do about that, he does not sleep as well there.  He naps really well when with us, the past couple of nights have been a bit better only in that he woke at 5 and I gave him a bottle and he went back off.  Typical though other LO up with sickness bug so no sleep still!  At the weekends he goes for first nap at 9am and will sleep til about 10.45.  When he wakes at 5 I never get him up as such I leave him in his cot or try and ssh pat him.

He has no signs other than chewing on things and being difficult to take the bottole initially on feeds, but I think he may be teething although I can't see anything he doesn't have red cheeks doesn't have those acidic smelling nappies, isn't off his food etc.

Sorry no I don't keep a sleep log.

Know I should not feed him when he wakes at 5 but just want to get some sleep!

Thanks for looking at his schedule, he is such a good wee soul just need to crack this early morning thing!

Tor

[LisaM]

Hello

Tor - any improvement lately for you with the early starts?

Brooke - hope Collin is feeling better, has he got any new teeth come through yet?

Well things not going too good for us the last 5 nights Grace has woken (most nights 2 times, one night 3 times), mostly the first wake she goes off pretty quickly, the second one seems to be around 3-3.30 everyday now (not sure if this is her deciding to wake up for the day even earlier or a NW!?).  She has eventually gone back off to sleep each day but the other morning she went back off at 4.20am and was awake again at 4.50 and this is typical, she only sleeps to 5.10 at the latest and after being awake for maybe 1.5 - 2 hrs she then will only take a 30-40 min nap!!  Driving me crazy as I have really tried on extending naps which has gone pretty good most days but the nights have got worse again.  She is I think teething but she doesn't cry like she is in pain just thumps her legs up and down and shouts out from time to time.  The problem is that although its great that MOST days she goes back off to sleep, it takes her so long that she is losing big chunks of sleep at night again (used to be up every night for 2.5 hrs).  She is only getting an average of 9-9.5 hrs most nights - very bad I know but don't know what else to do.

On these mornings when she has finally had a very short sleep again and its 5ish I have been getting her up once she starts crying because I feel like its doubtful that she will go off again or if she did would take about another 1.5 hrs.  Do you think this is the wrong thing to do.  I still don't feed her til about 6ish.

I also feel I must be getting times wrong for A times again as she is protesting more at nap times.  Yesterday was really bad, she had 30 mins at first nap, left her and she went back off for another 30 mins.  Did the same again for her 2nd one, then last one I put her to bed at 3.15 and tried til 5 to get her to go off but she WOULD NOT go off to sleep!!!  Disaster, got her up and gave her dinner and then 30 mins up and then off to bath and bed!!  Still last night she only woke once at 3.40 so I guess she was too exhausted to wake up before then!!

Anyway, sorry for all this moaning, I am trying to accept that maybe things will be this way for a while and that I can't change it but hate feeling out of control and worry about her getting so little sleep.

Still, its a new day today see how it goes!

[texasmom]

Hi guys,
Sorry I've been out.  It's been hectic.  No teeth yet.  Just pain. 

Lisa,
I am really sorry things are so rough.  Collin got a little wacky this week and my old standby worked like a charm - put him to bed at a time that he will get 14ish hours in 24h.  It helped us get back on track and now we can go back to regular bedtime.  Just want you to know how much that has helped us. 

Tor, the only thing I can think of that could be causing the EW is that maybe she gets overtired in the morning, but I am not sure about that at all, and I know you said it's not something you can help.  I know I said this before, but I thought that link I put on the post to Lisa was so insightful.  Maybe something there would ring a bell.

 

[croft]

Hi everyone,

It was suggested on the other boards that someone here may help.

Boy oh boy, can I ask you for suggestions? I have tried a few things suggested on the help boards, ie later bedtime (same wake time), cat nap (won't do it), longer A time (shorter naps)...

We are back to 5am mornings!!! He is ready to get up...wants to play! This morning it was 4.45~

I can't seem to get him back to his 6am wake, 6.30 bed routine.

If I shift his morning A time longer he fights the nap and the nap becomes shorter, sometimes 30 mins, same for the afternoon nap? So I am stuck with these times?

5.00 wake and play quietly in cot
5.30 usually calls to get up (have tried leaving him, sometimes he plays until 6)
6.00 bottle (never too hungry, so I know it's not hunger waking him early)
7.15 breakfast
8.00 nap sleeps 1 hour

10.00 bottle
11.15 lunch
12.00/12.15 nap sleeps 1 hour

2.00 bottle
4.15 dinner
5.00 bath
5.45/6.00  bottle, bed/asleep

He was heading to 12 hours at night too, now we seem to be lucky with 11.

I wonder if I have his routine all wrong?

Sharron

[LisaM]

Hi Sharron - welcome to the club!!

I am certainly no expert as am having loads of problems with my second dd but just wondered how old your lo is - he seems to have a lot more A time than my dd so am assuming he is older.

When you have tried shifting the A time, have you done it gradually for a few days at a time?  I know what you mean though, if we get it wrong (and we frequently do these days) we end up with crying to get off to sleep and a really short nap which never gets extended.

The most we have ever had a night is 11 hrs and I know that this is normal for lots of babies so maybe your lo is going to be an 11 hr sleeper rather than 12.  The problem is trying to get the later bedtime 7pm for you I guess so that he will sleep til 6am.

I hope someone can give you some good tips - Brooke has been helping me out with some ideas  have you read some of her earlier posts?

[texasmom]

Hi Sharon,
How old is your LO? 

Like Lisa said, I was thinking, to get his bedtime later, have you tried shifting everything 15 min, doing that for 4 days or so, and then shifting 15 more?  So his first nap would be 8:15, second 12:30 and then asleep 6:15. 

How does he seem during the day?  Happy?  I just wondered b/c he is sleeping 13 hours a day.  It could be all he needs.  Collin sleeps less than average I think. 

Lisa,
Hope you are doing ok!

Brooke

[LisaM]

Hi Brooke

We are doing OK although her afternoon naps seem to be going as bad as they used to be right before she stopped taking them altogether!  I think what happens is she gets to the point with all these awake periods and night and bad naps that she is so overtired she cannot sleep in the afternoons.  Do hope not but as I said Monday no nap after woke at 1.15pm, then Tueday had 25 mins then yesterday only 15 mins!!!!  She does have a bit of a cold so maybe that isn't helping things.

So yesterday she had woken from her decent nap at 11.45am (well I had to actually wake her as had to pick up dd1 from playgroup - I hate it when I have to wake her) so I didn't think the 15 mins would have done much good so got her into bed at 5.30pm and she went off by 5.45pm.  She then had the best night she has had in about a week and slept 11 hrs til 4.50am.  May have been the early bedtime but its only about 15 mins earlier than normal - could that help?  I thought it might be more likely to be that she was just totally exhausted.  Anyway, am hoping that soon she might start to sleep through regularly and then I will be able to try stretching A times etc to get to later bedtime, 2 naps only and better naps!!!  Don't want much then eh?!

Is Collin back on track now - feeling better too?

Its dd1's 3rd birthday this weekend so I am really looking forward to it - she has a little party with 4 friends on Saturday and then we have family coming round on Sunday - she is so excited - I can't believe she is 3 already, its gone so fast, I must make the most of Grace's time as a baby (even if she is a bit of a challenge to say the least!) because before I know it she will be running around and chatting the ears off me just like Phoebe does.

How are you feeling by the way, any morning sickness etc just yet?

[croft]

Hi girls,

Thankyou so much for the warm welcome and your advice.

My LO is 10 months and we have been having on and off early wakings all a long the way.

I have not been able to shift the A time gradually for a few days at a time, I guess because we go okay for a couple of days then he has a short nap or something and so to compensate I get him to bed earlier. We just never seem to get on track.

Yesterday he woke at 4am and I was able to settle him back to sleep until 5.30, so this helped to push him along. He woke up from his afternoon nap at 2.30 and so I put him to bed at 6.30. He didn't go to sleep until 7. Anyway this morning he woke at 5.25am, so I will do the same bed time for 4 days and see how we go?

I will go back and read through the early posts for ideas.

Lisa I am sorry you are having a tough time.  We were having this problem too, still wakes some nights, and I too think what happens is they get to the point with all these awake periods and night and bad naps that she is so overtired she cannot sleep in the afternoons.  Daniel has done this a few times, but seems to last until bed. One day he lasted 6 hours, quite happy?

Thanks again Sharron

[Tor]

Hi

We all seem to be going through it at the moment.

I am here in need of advice again! Alfie has always slept reasonably well then two weeks ago started waking at 5am now the last four nights he has woken at about 1 - 2 am, yuk, I have done pu/pd and eventually gone back to sleep without a feed but up again at 5.30 at which point I do feed him and he is so tired goes back to sleep until 7.  I know I should not feed him at 5.30 but by now I am so tired I can't face pu/pd for another hour.  My other LO did sleep through two hours of pu/pd on Wednesday night at 1.30 but it would definitely wake him at 5.30.

He is sleeping well during the day 9.30-11 and 1.30-3, he is in bed for 7-7.15

How are Grace and Phobe, hope the birthday goes well, I found three a real turning point, they grow up so quickly and are no longer toddlers, scary!  But such fun to be with.

Sharron, you are getting some seriously early mornings, my other LO woke betwen 5 - 5.30 for almost two years, sometimes it's just the way they are as well as by habit. I found it exhausting though!   Only positive is you do get the evenings to yourself as they are so shattered they go to bed well!

Torx
 

[texasmom]

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=87109.0

Hi girls,
I wanted to post that link again, just in case you couldn't find it. 

Lisa,
I think that is fantastic that she slept 11 hours.  I think a week of good sleep like that could really do the trick.  How have things been? 

How was the party?

Yep, Collin is doing better.  It takes forever for him to get a tooth.  He started teething at 3 months and didn't get his first tooth till 8 months. 

I'm fine so far.  I think last time nausea set in around 8 weeks.  I dread it.  It was 24/7 for the first trimester. 

Sharron,
How are you?

Tor,
I don't think it's bad to feed him at 5:30.  I'm trying to find how old your LO is.  I'm going to post and look for ticker. 

[texasmom]

Tor, ok 7 months.  I looked at your feeding routine.  I'm no expert on that, but it looks good.  One thing I STILL do out of paranoia of early wakings is tank him up before bed.  Big dinner with lots of protein till I'm sure he's full and 8oz formula right before bed (1-1.5h later). 

One thing that I have been told and read in BWSAYP is to stop the DF at 7 months.  I don't know why - the only thing someone said is that it can interfere with sleep.  So that sounds contradictory to what I said about tanking him up before bed.  But who knows...  Maybe if you dropped the DF and focus on giving him more solids, that would help. 

Anyway, if I were you, and feeding would put mine back to sleep at that early waking, I'd do it too!!  I'm not saying it's the RIGHT thing, but I'd sure do it.