What do you do when w2s does NOT work?

[Gippie]

Hi there.

Our D is 7 months old and has a morning "wake" of 5am.  She wakes - cries out(not really awake) and I shhh her and she is b2s until 6:30.   I USED to have to feed her, and now I do not - which means the DF is "working" as far as being full goes.     I have doen w2s in the psat with HUGE success and have tried it a few times with this particular time and have had no success!!!!    Last night I did it and it worked - - - till 5:15 . 

Are there any other tricks when w2s does not work OR have any of you done other things within the w2s concept that have worked?   I will w2s again tonight - keep at it till I have anohter trick to try.
Thanks,

Stacey

[tryinghard]

Hi there- went thru this recently. You havent mentioned when bedtime is? If it's around 7- then 5am is too early to wake. According to BW book, most babies stir around 5ish  (after 10 hrs of sleep) My opinion is doing shhh to get her b2s is the right thing to do. I wouldnt do W2S on this occasion. Went thru this with dd- after stirring she needs to know how to put herself b2s until 'morning'. She will learn this by you doing the shh- no conversation or engagement in any way. It will work but like everything else will take time. I did so many times with my lo- sometimes it worked , other times I would be in & out for up to 1.5 hrs- then she wouldnt go b2s at all.(Some days I was awake for the day at 4.30/5.00!)  I think repetition is the key here. Now quite often I hear her babble around this time but puts herself b2s- which was the goal. It's so hard-believe me I know! Just when you think you've conquered one problem- up comes the next !!

[Gippie]

Thanks!!!  I love it when I "re-hear" parts of the BW book - some that you miss and only "get" on the 4th reading .   So, YES, she does do a 5 am stir and I HAVE to get better about letting her try to get b2s - BUT I fear that she wont - but most of the time she DOES!    She is in bed between 7:30 and finally out (after foolng around in her crib) by 8pm.   I have no conversaions with her - since i am still sleeping - so that part is on point. 

Last night - I woke up at 4:45 and went in and checked on her, tucked her in a bit and she slept through till 6:30.  I wonder at times if it is the day feeds, the DF, naps or what that makes them sleep through or not?  I keep a notebook of her EAS and I havent been too interested in seeking out patterns - but I bet they are there.   

We are doing well 90% of the time, so I don't sweat the little stuff - and I think I will stick with the shhhhh and post back to see what happend!!!!

Stacey

[teezee]

there is alot developmentally going on right now (when isn't there  ). it sounds like things are ok right now but if you would like us to take a closer look it would be helpful if you could post lo's routine and answer the questions in the top of the night wakings board 'pls read before posting'. keeping my fingers crossed lo sleep through for you with no early wakings

[Gippie]

Tawnya,

OK - I wasn't going to post  - as I thought perhaps I could lick it - but after looking over the past 2 weeks - I see a CLEAR pattern - 5am wakes, resettle and she sleeps through till 6:30am, which is FINE wth me.   Here is a little background that MAY matter.   

I am a teacher and finished work 2 weeks ago.  DD was always waking (or I had to wake her) at 6am when I was working - but most of the time she woke at 6-6:15 - no problem.   As soon as I was home for the summer, she would wake at 5, I resettled her and she went back to bed.   In the past - I used to feed at this time, but now that we do solids and she still DF's, she does not need the food to resettle.   

And now for the questions:
How old is your child?  7months, 1 week
What’s his/her daily routine? 
5 nws
6:30 wake
7 bottle
8 cereal
9 -10:30 nap
11 bottle
12 cereal and fruit
1:30 - 3 nap
3 bottle
5 dinner
7 start bedtime routine and bottle
7:30 - 8 fall asleep
10:30 DF


What’s nap routine?  She naps 2x per day for 1.5 hours each.  We nap after an AM A time of 2.5 and a PM A time of 3hrs.  Usually 9-10:30 and then 1:30-3 (give or take a little)
How long are naps?  1.5 hours each, if she stirs, she resettles herself - have not seen 45 in a LONG time
What's bedtime routine? Time?  Start at 7am, bath, massage(lotion), read a book or play on bed(low-key) and then music on and bed.  IN her bed by 7:30.  Sometimes she plays and is out at 8 the latest.
Do you bottle or breastfed??  Weaned from BF 2 weeks ago and FF now
How much? or how long? 4 feeds 6-8 ounces each and a DF at 10:30
How many wakes per night?  none at all - except the 5am wake
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Wakes, sometimes cries out and has her eyes sht.  I put her on her side, shhh her and she goes back to sleep.  She is not up long - 3 minutes.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?  I think more a mnatra - definitly NOT a wailing cry. 
What have you tried to settle??  dont understand?
What do you do for A time and how long is it?  A time is 2.5hr, nap, 3hr, nap and then good for the night (sometimes she is beat nad bed IS earlier).  She has mostly play time on floor, go to the park, go outside, sometimes exersacer or jumper.  She is crawling and climbing and can sit up from laying - so she loves to move!!!
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?  She has 8 teeth!!!!   She started at 4mo and had 8 of them at 6 months.  I THINK that there are more coming BUT they say they next do not appear for a while, I THINK I see something near the canines???  She learned how to sit from laying, can army crawl and is desperate to stand in her crib
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)
Do they have a prop? If so what is it?  She uses a binky ONLY at bedtime, spits it out and that never wakes her.
Do they have a lovie?  Oh yes , she has a doggie she LOVES and he stays in the bed waiting for her at each nap.   

Thanks for taking the time to see whats going on.   I have tried w2s and USUALLY it works like a charm - but it has not this time.  It is NOT killing me to get up and shhh her, except for the fact that I stay up too late and then 5 am is EVIL.  I guess for the sake of the 1.5 hours, if we can tweak it I would love to.  I have recently shortened naps - she is a perfect 3 hrs per day.  She has always had this naptime and I fear that earlier tp bed might mean earlier t orise.   The 6:30am wake IS fine.

MANY MANY thanks,

Stacey

[teezee]

maybe your lo wasn't getting as long of a morning nap before you were home? it could be that she is getting too much am sleep and therefore not tired come early morning??! maybe you want to try limiting that morning nap to say and hr tops and let lo have a long pm nap and see if that helps..if you want just let lo have a morning catnap of a half hr or 45 min - it's your call..maybe just play with it every few days and see if you see any changes/ progress with things. also with these early wakings and shorter am nap you may need to put lo to bed earlier for a bit try for 7ish for her to be asleep. at least if lo is making up for some lost sleep it will be at the appropriate time - night time

also - cutting down the am nap will help if lo is getting too much daysleep (which may have somehting to do with it also)..just some tweaking here and there and you will be on the right road again

also you 'may' be going to lo too soon. often times lo's will wake and stir (usually around the 10 hr mark) and mantra a bit a put themselves back to sleep. maybe you want to try and let lo go and see how she does before messing around with anything else? you don't want to wreck a good thing kwim? once or if lo starts the 'i need you now mommy' cry go to her and resettle..hopefully she will do it herself though.

wow!! i can't believe your lo has 8 teeth already...again..wow!!!

good luck! keep us posted hun

[tryinghard]

Dear Gippie, your routine sounds perfect to me- you are doing very well! My dd is a little older than yours and I would love it if she had naps of 1.5 hours! I've read thru your post and there are a couple of things that stand out to me. (Bearing in mind I am no expert (!) only that my dd was 7 mo not long ago) Sounds to me you have been 'rushing in' when she stirs at 5- this is normal to stir at this time- and will usually go back to sleep anyway. However (I know from experience!) that once u have started 'rushing in" a bit of accidental parenting has occured then u have to try to reverse what u started in the first place- not easy. I did this- then I thought hey what's the worst that could happen if I don't rush in- yes, the dreaded 'c' word- she may cry! But I am so over that now, a bit of a mantra cry is perfectly normal- only if she screams for me then I would go in- so I would keep up the shh when its absolutely necessary, Another thing (u may be nervous to try!) once u have licked the 5am thing- have u thought about bringing her bedtime forward? Yes, maybe she will rise earlier but maybe not- wont know unless u try. I would start bedtime routine half hour to hour b4 u do now. Either way, any new 'thing' u try u should do consistently for at least a week b4 u see how it affects your dd. Post back with ur progress! Dont really think u have huge problems -all sounds pretty good if u ask me! P.S. Probably dont want 2 hear this but if u want more sleep u'll have to go to bed earlier! I am in the same boat! Hang around at night then feel like truck ran over head in the morn!

[Gippie]

Thanks for the advice.   I HAVE started to TRY not to rush in!    I did w2s for 5 nights - Tracey did suggest a repeat of up to 6 times if it wasnt working.     I fiddle with the bedtime and it hasnt mattered much.  Last night she wsa in bed at 8 and up at 6 - which ws her "old" way...so who knows....I will keep waiting and avoiding the AP.    Thanks!!!!!   Yes, that truck must head from your house to mine, cause I swear it was here this morning!!!!

haha

Stacey

[tryinghard]

When r u doing w2s? Maybe 6/6.30 is her 'wake up time' and will still be the same if she is in bed at 7. When u said u fiddled with her bedtime did u do the new bedtime every nite for 1-2 weeks? I find when I tried something new- it took at least 4 days to balance out.

[Gippie]

I was doing w2s at 4 - and no - the new bedtime is old as of tonight.     She was in bed by 8 tonight and I can certianly live with the 6 am wake up - but 5 is UGLY!!!  So NO - I did not do the new bedtime for any length of time  , I hink I will stick with your first advice and do shh pat and wait on going in - I can DO that!!!  Thanks!!!

stacey

[tryinghard]

Just my opinion but i wouldnt do w2s at 4- no matter what, babies will usually stir around 5 then go b2s until their waketime. When a baby 'sleeps thru the night' it doesn't mean that he/she didnt wake at all- it means that he/she was able to go b2s on his/her own. Let's face it, really it is a problem becoz we have to get up at 5 to try to put b2s. I still think u should do the shh to teach her to go b2s sleep on her own. I went thru the exact same thing- and there are no easy quick fixes - I just had 2 keep doing it until she 'got it' Mind u, I thought I had it licked then she started calling out 4 me at 5 again but I kept doing the shhh- saying 'it's time 2 go 2 sleep' and leaving her room b4 she was asleep and then it took much less time for her to 'get it' again than in the start.

[Gippie]

I like your answer.  Forget the 4 am wake 2 sleep - you are right.  Just head in there at 5 and shh her.   Thats one more hour of sleep and not having to get up at 4, then at 5 - you have the right idea - from the start.....thanks!!!

Stacey