Help: 17 week old still doesn't sleep at night

[mikeenan]

Hi- I really need advice.  My 17 1/2 week old son is still not sleeping through the night and my husband and I are extremely sleep deprived.  I have to return to work next week and am desperate to get him sleeping longer.  Here's some info. about him and our routine:

-Gavin is on a 4 hour EASY that we moved to at 15 weeks because he was eating very little at each of his feeds.  It only took us 2 days to transition because I think he was really ready for the longer activity periods.  He is now on formula 100% and is eating anywhere from 28 - 30 ounces/day including the feeds from 7 am to 11 pm.  He usually eats another 4 oz. somewhere between 3:30 am and 5:30 am.  His schedule is:
7:00 EAT
7:30 ACTIVITY
9:00 - 11:00 SLEEP (most times he wakes at 30-45 min. but I'm able to put him back to sleep easily with pat/shh in the crib)
11:00 EAT
11:30 - 1:00 ACTIVITY
1:00 - 3:00 SLEEP
3:00 EAT
3:30 - 5:00 ACTIVITY
5:00 - 5:30 CATNAP
5:30 - 6:30 ACTIVITY
6:30 EAT
6:45 BATH
7:00 SWADDLE, get ready for bed, then FINISH BOTTLE, sit in rocker and pat/shh, give paci for a few minutes until sleepy then put into crib with paci and a few more min. of pat/shh
7:30 SLEEPING
11:00 DREAM FEED

-He is generally a "textbook" baby and by 8 weeks was going 5 or 6 hours between feeds at night

-In weeks 9-12, he almost stopped eating and started sleeping horribly and finally figured out he had reflux.  His reflux now seems to be under control after taking Zantac then moving to Prilosec

-He's a great baby in the daytime, although he does wake up 30-45 min. into his naps

-He just doesn't seem to have enough to tide him over from 11 pm to 5, 6, or 7 am though.  Here's what I've tried:

1. I try making sure he was eating more at every feeding in the day - doing my best to force him to take 7-7.5 ounces.  Generally, I get about 1 oz. at 7 am, 7.5 at 11 am, 6 at 3 pm, 7.5 at 7 pm, 7.5 at 11 pm but I'm pushing the limit to get him to take that.  He definitely won't take any more.

2. For the past 7 days, I also decided NOT to feed him if he woke up any time between 11 pm and 5 am since it seems like he should be able to go that long at his age and I know he has done it before at a much younger age.  Every night he has woken up, generally around 3:00 to 3:45 and clearly wants to eat.  Instead of feeding him, I've been giving him the paci and pat/shh in the chair first for about 5 min. until calm then in the crib.  I've had to stay for a full hour every night before he's actually sleeping again.  Then he only sleeps for about 20-30 min., waking up around 5:00 to 5:30 at which I do feed him about 4 oz.

3. Because for 7 days this method did not seem to work, I reread Tracy's book on the hunger variable and realized I was not doing a cluster feed like maybe I should.  Last night I did a dream feed basically 2 x's - once at 9 pm and once at 11 pm - both times he ate very well and our "daytime" total for milk was 34 oz (the highest ever).  However, he still woke up this morning at 3:45 am.  It took me until 5 to get him to sleep. He woke up at 5:20 and ate 4 oz.  The problem is for the past two nights, after I feed him at 5:00 or 5:30, I CANNOT get him back to sleep.  He is wide awake ready to play.

So now I'm in a worse sleep position.  I've stayed awake for 1.5 - 2 hours total in the middle of the night instead of the 45 min. total it may have taken me if he'd eaten only once at 3:30.  Should I go back to just feeding him at 3:30?  Is there something else I should try?  Should I continue "cluster" dream feeding him at 9 pm and 11 pm?  Any help is appreciated.  I'm really really tired and will not be able to function at work next week if I don't get more sleep.

[macsmum]

hello not sure how much help i can be as my ds is 25wks and still not sleeping through reflux it sucks.
anyway, the df doesnt work for all babies, not mine anyway it made things worse, but you could try making the df a little earlier say 10.30pm see if that helps!, also maybe try moving bedtime forward, try 15mins to start. my ds sleeps much better now he is asleep for 7pm.if your lo fusses at bedtime it may be that he is overtired.

also it is not uncommon for 18wk olds to need a feed, if u r trying not to feed (which i tried) and he is going back to sleep but then waking again within the hour, personally i would say he is hungry.

dont worry that he used to sleep longer periods at night, they do like to keep us on our toes. my ds slept through for 10 nights at about 10wks but then all change.
hope i helped a little.
and dont worry i finally got my ds down to 1 nw i went back to work monday and by tues he was back to 2 nw
good luck
Emma

[Colin Macs Mom]

2. For the past 7 days, I also decided NOT to feed him if he woke up any time between 11 pm and 5 am since it seems like he should be able to go that long at his age and I know he has done it before at a much younger age.  Every night he has woken up, generally around 3:00 to 3:45 and clearly wants to eat.  Instead of feeding him, I've been giving him the paci and pat/shh in the chair first for about 5 min. until calm then in the crib.  I've had to stay for a full hour every night before he's actually sleeping again.  Then he only sleeps for about 20-30 min., waking up around 5:00 to 5:30 at which I do feed him about 4 oz.

TBH I think this is a bad idea. At his age it's very likely that he cannot go 6 hours between feeds, even if he did that when he was younger. I would really encourage you to feed him when he wakes - especially since you yourself say that he clearly wants to eat. I think you're making things harder on yourself and on LO by not just feeding him.

3. Because for 7 days this method did not seem to work, I reread Tracy's book on the hunger variable and realized I was not doing a cluster feed like maybe I should.  Last night I did a dream feed basically 2 x's - once at 9 pm and once at 11 pm - both times he ate very well and our "daytime" total for milk was 34 oz (the highest ever).  However, he still woke up this morning at 3:45 am.  It took me until 5 to get him to sleep. He woke up at 5:20 and ate 4 oz.  The problem is for the past two nights, after I feed him at 5:00 or 5:30, I CANNOT get him back to sleep.  He is wide awake ready to play.

I was going to suggest a cluster feed in the evening. I would do it earlier though, like at 6, 8 and 10 for example. And remember, there are no quick fixes. You have to give things a little time until you see results. 

[mikeenan]

Thanks for the replies ladies.  Colin Mac's Mom - why would you move his cluster feeds to 6, 8, 10?  It seems counter-intuitive to me to move his feedings earlier if I want him to last longer into the middle of the night?  Also, how would you suggest I do it?

Right now his evening schedule is:
Eat 6:30
Bath 6:45
Finish eating and bed routine 7:00
Sleep 7:30

Would I "dream feed" him at 8 and 10? Or would you change his bed time so that an 8:00 feeding is during awake time?  I'm not sure how to implement your suggestion.

Thanks,
Michelle

[Colin Macs Mom]

Cluster feeding can sometimes interfere with a dreamfeed - by then they're so full they don't want it. Moving the cluster feeds back a bit can help with that if necessary. I just meant those times as an example. It';s hard to suggest a schedule for clusterfeeding since it depends a lot on how LO does with it. Give it a shot and the routine will work itself out.

[mikeenan]

Thanks again, but I have one more question about it.  Should the 8:00ish feeding be while he's awake or is it ok to do while sleeping?  I like to put him to bed at 7:30 but fear that feeding him before 9 would not be enough sleep before going in.  Last night we did 9 & 11 both while sleeping as dream feeds & he ate a lot at both.  I could also feed him at 5 & 7 then DF at 11 if all cluster feeding should be during awake time.  Advise pls.

[Colin Macs Mom]

If he actually stays asleep then go for it! You can do it either way really. Not all LOs will sleep through a feed but if they do then that's great.