Milk/Soy Protein Intolerance - MSPI - READ HERE!!!

[hayleysmum]

Turns out that it was just the beginning of a stomach bug - it turned into diarrhea at the weekend and she started vomitting as well.   

[GraceKellysmom]

Poor dear! I hope she's feeling better! I hate changing bed sheets covered in vomit!

[First Time Mom]

My dd has a milk protein allergy, she's bf and I have eliminated ALL milk products from my diet as she gets blood in her stool. Today, we introduced organic oatmeal cereal and she broke out into a heavy rash within 4 hours. She can eat barley and rice cereal and we have tried 4 veggies and banana that she is fine with so far. With 2 allergies already I'm nervous about more, should I at this point go to an allergist to get her tested? I'd like to avoid other reactions if possible. My doctor is useless (said the oatmeal reaction could have been a heat rash today and to try it again in one week but dd was not in the heat!). Also, being bf, should I now eliminate food with oatmeal in it?

[hayleysmum]

Hi First Time Mom,

In the UK they don't recommend allergy testing before the age of 18 months as they don't think the results are particularly accurate - not sure if it's any different where you are...   Although she seems to tolerate the gluten in barley, that could be what she's reacting to in the oats (which are quite glutenous).  I'd stick with the low allergen cereals like rice and buckwheat and continue with introducing low allergen fruits and veggies.  Apples, pears, banana, sweet potato, avocado, papaya, carrot, swede, squash, parsnip etc. There are a wide range of things she can try.  My dietician recommends introducing a new food no sooner than every 3 days.

I don't think you need to avoid the oatmeal in your diet (presumably her symptoms cleared after you eliminated dairy?) but I'd probably wait a few months before trialing the oatmeal again. 

[GraceKellysmom]

Consider if there is anything else that could have caused the rash. Has she had immunizations in the last 2 weeks? Has she been at grandma's house (they are notorious for slipping babies ice cream!  ) Is the organic oatmeal truly just oatmeal? (I'm sure you read the label, but it's happened before)

Beyond that, it will need to be your own comfort level as far as when you choose to introduce again. Haleysmom had wonderful suggestions. I would not eliminate oatmeal in my own diet unless you find that she reacts to that as well. Oatmeal is a more rare allergy.

[Mom to M&M]

I definitely agree to investigate other possible causes of the rash first, but while not as common as some allergies, I know many babies who had oatmeal reactions. In fact, my allergist/dietician doesn't recommend trying oatmeal before 9 months at the earliest, sometimes 12.

Allergy testing at your DD's age will not be reliable, unfortunately - it's really just trial and error at this point. I'd keep trialing new foods, giving each new food for 5 days in increasing amounts to test for reactions. I'd test oatmeal again at 9 months if I were you. Often foods that babies react to one day are fine a few weeks or months later - my DD reacted at first to apples at 6 months but at 10 months has them a few times a week with no problem.

Agree also that you don't need to eliminate oatmeal in your own diet unless you find she is reacting to that.

[Beata3]

I have a quick question ~ my son's poops have gone back to "yellow" & then back to green (I think it may have been either wheat or mushrooms/garlic in chicken), then back to yellowish (with like an orange shade) ~ I have not eaten any wheat in 2 days trying to get it to clear up again.  But today, his poop is orange-yellowish again & just now yellow but watery (no real substance to it) & he's got gas & is fussy.  The only thing that I can think of is either a burger (bunless) that I had yesterday OR a Hummel's hot dog... based on the color ~ I am thinking the hot dog.  Anyone know if that could be causing so much gas & orang-ish mucousy poops & watery poops???  (The ingred. say 100% beef franks ~ does not say anything about any milk/soy products).  Are they really not safe to eat???  (His poops use to be mucousy but green, now they are yellow but muscousy.... I hope someone can give me some info as I am feeling horrible & clueless.... Also, I read somewhere that when a baby is teething it can cause mucous in poops (something to do with the saliva) ~ anyone know if this has any truth in it?  TIA,  Beth

[GraceKellysmom]

Well, I've read (and experienced twice) that when a baby is teething they can have runny or watery stools, and a bit of a bright red diaper rash. (Change poopy diapers asap when teething, not that we don't always, of course) Teething causes some babies to be extremely fussy. My sister's baby has been fussy lately and she is teething, come to find out she had an ear infection too, and hasn't had a cold in her life yet. So keep that in mind.

I wouldn't feel too bad, this whole mothering thing is a learning process and perfection is never reached!

When something says 100% beef, I think what it means is just that. 100% beef, no fillers (like corn or soy). There is a pretty good chance it has spices and flavorings. Are you in the US? Because that is supposed to be disclosed on the label now. You could try HebrewNational kosher beef hotdogs, they will at least be milk free but I'm not 100% sure on the wheat. Hamburgers are usually safe, just check to see whatever spices are used.

As for color, so many things can change the color of the poop based on 1) what you've eaten and 2) the foremilk/hindmilk balance. So green poops are technically "ok" if baby is happy, but a green poop usually means a little more foremilk than hindmilk. Or it could also be from your vitamins, kind of like how vitamins change the color of our urine bright yellow/green, they can change your babies poops too. Weird, huh? So the consistency is more important than color (ranging from yellow to orange to brown and sometimes green) and mucus will be your sign of irritation. Have you tried eliminating soy yet? Milk and soy will be your top offenders, followed by wheat, corn, nuts, fish, and citrus. The foreign proteins in milk and soy are usually what does it.

[Beata3]

Thanks Stacy ~ greatly appreciate the information... yes, I have been off of soy for about 2-3 weeks now ~ I did the no soy/milk/wheat/citrus/tomato thing, and his poops went back to looking healthier & yellow.  Last week his ped. said I can have wheat again, and I have had a bun/bread & pasta one night & the next day he was getting fussy & his poops were turning green & a little smelly, so I have stopped eating wheat just in case & will try again when he is back to yellow & healthy   But I am not sure if it is diet related (him being fussy) ~ he's almost 5 months, sticks everything in his mouth & his fussiness doesn't last all day & he can be easily "distracted" ~ that is the tough thing ~ I am not sure what is his tummy hurting/my food related & what is teething!  Ugh!  So confusing & frustrating... I am afraid to eat anything b/c I don't want him to be in pain, but I am starting to feel miserable & hungry all the time (and tired of chicken)   But he is so worth it!  As for the orange poop, thank you for your input.  We are also thinking that it may be Gripe Water ~ the one we have is like a dark yellow/orange color & maybe that is doing it?  (Although it has never done it before, but who knows)... Does anyone know how long to wait before trying food again?  And (on average) how long before I will see if Matthew has a reaction to it?  (Like, if I eat wheat ~ how long before I realize that he can't tolerate it?)  Thanks!!!!

[GraceKellysmom]

yep, I bet it is the gripe water. or any other pain reliever you give can change the color/consistency. I found with my kids, their poops started getting a little more like wet clay towards six months, even before solids were added.

Most offenders will show within 72 hrs although if he was pretty healed up it could be a month before blood would show again. I typically recommend trying the potential offender a week later and see if it happens again. Then I would wait 3 months before trying again. Do you have the ingredients list for your bread? I wonder if it was eggs.

Beef is a potential offender too, for some kids that are very intolerant. Have you tried beans for protein? Beans and rice options mix it up a bit. Many health food stores sell wheat free products for gluten intolerant or people with celiacs.

[Beata3]

Stacy~ thank you!  As for beans~ I tried adding them into my salads & then I read that kids that cannot tolerate soy may not be able to tolerate other beans so I stopped (and stopped eating the hummus with garlic I bought since he got fussy the next day ~ but I also ate wheat that day & mushrooms, so who knows what exactly it was).  As for the ingredients:  1 bread is from Trader Joe's & it is "Honey Bran Country Bread" & the list is:  Wheat flour, Water, Wheat Bran, Cracked Wheat, Potato Flour, Canola Oil, Honey, Molasses, Wheat Gluten, Sugar, Salt, Yeast, Cultured Wheat Starch, (for added freshness), Soy lecithin (which I was told that this & soybean oil were okay as they do not have the protein that babies cannot tolerate, is that right?), Barley flour, enzyme, ascorbic acid.  May contain sesame seeds.  And the tortilla wraps that I have are:  Flour Tortilla with whole wheat (also from Trader Joe's):  Enriched unbleached flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin (Vitamin B2), folic acid), water, whole wheat flour, sunflower oil, salt, baking powder (sodium acid pyrophosphate, sodium bicarbonate, monocalcium phosphate, cornstarch), citric acid.  So, I don't see any eggs or anything else (outside of the wheat) that it could be.  But, like I said, it could have been something else ~ like the hummus with garlic, or mushroom that were on my chicken, or maybe even the Hormel's turkey (they have a new turkey that is with no presv. & the ingredients are fairly simple, so I *think* it is safe).  And maybe it was because I ate bread twice that day & then had pasta for dinner?  Maybe I'll try some bread today & see what happens!  As for the nature food store ~ thank you, I have been trying to eat millet bread & rice bread ~ but I truly cannot get used to either (but I keep trying).  Thanks for the tip about the poop~ that helps!  His poops haven't truly gone back to the scrambled egg consistency ~ more like a clay-ish look ~ so that helps ~ thnak you... and sometimes there are pieces of green mucous still in there. 

Also, I have one more question.  You said something about the appearance of blood taking longer ~ with my son he has only had a little bit of blood (oinkish) 2x's ~ since about birth his only symptoms were fussiness (we think), green muscousy poops taht are foul in smell (this is why his ped. wasn't overly concerned, I guess).  The 2nd time he had blood is when I did the ellimination diet & no blood since.  So, when I say he "reacts" I mean he gets gassy, fussy (which, again, may be due to teething), and has gassy poops that are slightly green & smell "off" & have mucous.  So, could that mean that his intolerance isn't "that bad?"  If there isn't blood present (but those 2 times) does that mean that he isn't that "hyper sensitive" to it?  (I know his ped. did test on his stool ~ & said they came back negative ~ but I am not 100% certain what he tested for as I know he said that they wanted to make sure it wasn't an infection, but I am assuming that he tested for blood since he did suspect that it could have been the MSPI) ~ I'll talk to him more about it at his next check up.  Anyway, thank you so much for all of your help!  This site is making me feel better about this & maybe I can tough it out (now that I am getting some answers & concrete info).  Thank you!

Beth

[GraceKellysmom]

Beth, Isn't this site great? I has been a sanity check for me as mine are growing up. I had a super breastfeeding support group that helped with the MSPI issues. With that kind of support, I hope you feel like this is totally do-able. I nursed my first through 12 months when she self-weaned, and my second through 16 months when I weaned him. Never would have been possible without all that support.

Your bread and tortillas look ok to me as far as MSPI ingredients. The oil is usually ok. I might be tempted to try a very basic bread for next time (fewer ingredients or something like a sourdough), or even try making your own (not bad if you have a stand mixer) with just flour, yeast, water, salt, honey. I agree on the wheat-free breads! But if that is all you have to eat, then they start tasting ok, kinda like Rice Dream or dark chocolate.

I am guessing that his intolerance isn't that bad. I would probably go off the mucus poops (forget the color, especially as you start solids in a month or two) and maybe the smell (although any meds given will cause a foul odor). Since he is teething, it is hard to say if his fussiness is that or his tummy. Was he ever diagnosed with reflux?

Since you are nursing, I will ask a nursing question too. In regards to the green poops, do you think he has them more often late morning/early afternoon? When he nurses, is he getting pretty "I'm done already!" after a few minutes? Does he eat on EASY or more often?

[Beata3]

Stacy ~ thanks again!  And yes, I def. agree that with support things get easier!  Unfortunately this site is my primary support ~ as I do not have any friends that have bf successfully, let alone had issues with MSPI (plus, most pf my friends are still single) & there was a lactation facility that we have been to ~ but they weren't much help with the MSPI & what to eat thing ~ & she continues to think it is just a foremilk/hindmilk thing ~ which I don't think that is it (maybe partially, but not all of it). 

As for nursing, Matthew is basically fed "whenever" ~ he eats every 2.5 hours or so ~ mainly because I wanted to make him feel better with all that tummy pain all those months.  As for his green poops ~ up until I gave up dairy/soy ~ he had green poops ALL day, everyday ~ they were his "normal" color since 3 weeks of age ~ his ped. & the lact. cons. kept telling me not to worry about it.  The recent bout of green poops has been (I think) mid-day.  A couple of mornings he has woken up with a poopy diaper & when I check it has been partially green (but, I know this may sound silly, but I think the poop turns from yellow to green after a few hours.  Could it be?  One night I changed his diaper in the middle of the night & it was yellow, and when I went to throw it out in the morning I noticed that it was green).  He has been getting up 2x's per night to eat over the last couple of weeks ~ after sleeping through the night since he was 2.5 months old.  When he nurses ~ nope, he is never done ~ my son would nurse ALL DAY if I let him!  (LOL)  He isn't the typical baby that will pull off when he is "finished" ~ he'll sit there & "graze" ~ I have to pull him off most of the time, although lately he has been pulling off once in a while on his own.  I know that the lac. consultant said that she thinks that I have a LARGE milk supply (he use to choke on my milk & actually did it again last night for the 1st time in months).  She had me drinking sage tea to get it "under control" ~ which I did.  I use to wake up engorged in the am (when he was sleeping through the night) & be able to pump 5-7 oz. while he ate off the other breast.  But he doesn't "choke" anymore, since he wakes up a couple of times in the middle of the night I don't wake up engorged anymore, & I have been keeping him on one breast until it feels empty/or he fusses & pulls off.  Most of the time, one breast will satisfy him & then the next feeding I start with that same breast & offer the next when it is empty.  (And his green poops still occurred during all of this).

As for reflux ~ no!  His doctor didn't even discuss it with us.  When we called him about his green stools he basically said that it didn't matter what color the poop was in a bf baby b/c it varies due to mom's diet ~ but then put me on the ellimination diet when blood showed up (1 of 2 times).  But, I thought reflux had to do with vomiting, spitting up, etc.?  Matthew doesn't have any of those symptoms ~ he spit up for maybe a 2 week period, but it wasn't frequent.  Are there other symptoms?  Do the 2 go together hand in hand?  And I think you are right, we are going based on mucous & smell ~ as today his poop was green, but smelled that "sweet" smell of healthy poop ~ so, I figure that was my salad from yesterday   (which makes me think that whatever I eat will go through him within 24 hours, just like the salad).

Stacy ~ thanks again!  I can't even express to you & everyone else on here that have helped how much it means to me.  I have thought several times of just putting him on formula b/c this is so difficult (not just b/.c of the diet, but being worried that if I eat something "wrong" he will be in pain), but the more & more I hang around here the more I realize that it is best for him for me to keep going!!! (At least for now)....

Thanks again!

Beth

[GraceKellysmom]

Well I tell ya what, why not just go with the, "one more week/month" attitude, and you will be amazed at how quickly the next six months go!  (As a former breastfeeding moderator, I of course encourage breastfeeding and do everything I can to help mommies out.)

It sounds like your lactation consultant was really worth her stuff, the advice you got re: foremilk imbalance was spot on. And it sounds like you have that part under control! You can do breast compressions (squeeze your breast gently from chest to nipple while he is nursing) to get a little more of the fatty milk out. My ds ate every 2-3 hours until he was about 7-8 months old when he woke up one day and decided every 4 hrs was plenty.    So yours sounds completely normal, including the getting up once or twice a night to eat. They often have an odd growth spurt in the fifth month right before they sit up independently.

If your baby has reflux, you usually know it. Sometimes MSPI and reflux go hand in hand, a theory is that whatever bothers their intestine bothers their stomach too. Some refluxers are "silent" in that they don't spit up but are obviously in a lot of pain. So I would wager that your ds doesn't have this.

I LOL about the salad comment! I think 24-36 hrs is probably about right. The one thing I love about the MSPI "diet" is that even after going off it, I still eat pretty healthy and don't have the stomach for a lot of the junk I ate before. I am still soy free, I realized I am intolerant during our whole process.

Any time you have a question, you can post it here or in the nursing forum, pm me or a moderator. When our babies were tiny, someone helped and encouraged us, I like to think I'm "passing it on". I love to hear breastfeeding success stories like yours! Way to go!

[Beata3]

Thanks Stacy & I have a few more questions ~ this is a little different, but I need some help!!!  I am very torn over this & very emotional (I can see the pluses & minuses of both sides), I posted this on the BF board, too.  I know all of the WONDERFUL benefits of BF a baby ~ I never thought I would be THIS successful at it.  My son is 5 months old today, and I am wondering what the difference (advantage) would be to continue bf him past 6 months (my new goal is 6 months).  Because of this MSPI stuff I am not sure if I am doing him the BEST service by continuing to BF since his poops are still coming up mucousy & green (or green with yellow).  I won't lie & say that NONE of this is for me, because some would be ~ but not the big portion of it.  This diet is getting to me on some days & although it is worth it for my son, it is hard!!!!  I have not been to eat out in a month (which is fine, for the most part).  I miss cheese & berries ALOT (especially now that it is strawberry season).  BUT more importantly I am worried about my son.  His bowels have yet to fully, 100% go back to the seedy yellow.  They have returned (most times) to that sweet smelling odor (before they were foul smelling), but most of the time there is still mucous in them (kind of like a booger ~ sorry, I know it is WAY too much info) & at times they are green (or green mixed with yellow).  Sometimes I think it is because of lettuce that I may have had, and sometimes I wonder if something else is bothering him.  I have a limited amount of things that I eat b/c I am worried about affecting him ~ & ther are times that he gets gassy ~ so now I am afraind to eat mushrooms or beans b/c he had BAD gas & green stools the next day (and was very fussy).  Anyway, so I am wondering if maybe after 6 months he wouldn't be better off on formula (I think his ped suggested Alimentum if we were to switch).  (I know breastmilk is best ~ but in my situation ~ is it really?  I get so upset when he has tummy problems).  So, I was wondering what are the added advantages to bf past the 6 month mark?  Or is the BIGGEST & BEST boost happen upto 6 months?

Thanks for reading this & any info would be appreciated ~ I am so torn!!!

Beth