HELP! I can't get my 4.5 mo on EASY

[Katya]

I am trying to tech my 4.5 mo old to eat every 4 hours, but when i try to feed her when she wakes up from a nap, she only snacks.  then when it's time to nap again, she won't because she is hungry.  I don't want her to go to sleep hungry (and frankly think that she won't go to sleep), so i end up feeding her then waiting 10 minutes to put her down.  how can i teach her to eat every 4 hours?  please help!!!

[HeatherC]

Can you give us her current schedule?

[Katya]

That's the problem, there reall isn't a schedule

here's what yesterday looked like:

up 7:20
E 7:30 8 min
E 8:50 10 min
S 9:20-10:00 pat/shh for 50 min then asleep 10:50-1:05
E 1:15 6 min
E 2:40 4 min
E 3:15 10 min
S 3:25-4:15 pat/shh 20 min then asleep 4:40-5:20
E 5:30 10 min
E 7:30 (the evening feed is sort off, an on off the boob affair, for about 30 minutes)
S 8:15-11:20
E 11:20
S 11:35-6:20
E 6:20 15 min
S 6:35-8:20 AM

yesterday was an exception she doesn't usually sleep for 12 hours, it's usually more like 10

here are 2 other days:

up 7:50
E 8:10 6min
E 9:30 10 min
S 9:50-10:30 then 10:40-12:30
E 2:30 6 min
S 3:00-3:35
S 5:00-5:40
E 5:45 10 min
E 7:15 (the evening feed is sort off, an on off the boob affair, for about 30 minutes)
S 8:45
E 12:20
S 12:30-4:20
E 4:20
S 4:35-7:20

up 6:30
E 6:35 5 min
E 8:00 14 min
S 8:20-10:40
E 11:45 9 min
S 1:00-1:30
E 2:40 12 min
S 3:30-4:00 pat/shh, asleep 5:00-7:20
E 7:30 11 min
S 9:20
E 1:20
S 1:35
E 5:00
S 5:40 after pat/shh (asleep until 7:50)

As you can see our routine is a bit of a mess.  I am trying to make it more regular, but with her frequently waking after 40 minutes of napping and then trying to get her back to sleep, sometimes for 40 minutes, it's difficult.  she also doesn't really nurse a lot after she wakes up, but likes to nurse when she is tired.  since i've started the pat/shh technique, i never let her fall asleep while nursing.  if she does, i change her and then put her into the crib.  before tried any of the BW methods, she would nap for about 4.5 hours a day, which i think she is still doing fairly regularly, but it involves a lot of pat/shushing.  she used to take a 2-2.5 hour nap in the morning and a 1.5 -2 hour nap in the afternoon, and sometimes a cat nap later in the day. i was nursing her to sleep all the time, or carrying her in a sling and she naped in her car seat.  (i am so happy to say that she hasn't been nursed to sleep since we started trying to implement bw methods- a week today!)

sorry the post is so long... please help

[HeatherC]

It's wonderful that you've made the transition from nursing to sleep.  That is a major step!
I think her sleeping and eating are intertwined and affecting each other.  She is snacking, and without proper feeds at regular intervals, she's not going to understand exactly when it's time to nap.  So, I think you should try to hold her feedings off for as long as you can, gradually over many days, weeks, until you can retrain her to feed at regular intervals of time.  You'll have to use a soother/paci, distractions with play, change of scenery, whatever you can.  But, she shouldn't need a feed for at least 3 hrs, and probably just the first few times of stretching her will help her to be more hungry and take a full feed.  Then, you can begin stretching her to 4 hours, or you might find that she almost does it on her own.

[Katya]

Thanks Heather!  But I can't seem to get her to nurse when she wakes up, and then I can't get her to sleep without having just nursed.  Today, I fed her an hour before her first nap, and then 30 minutes before her second.  Do you have any tricks for keeping her focused on eatting, she bobs off the breast a lot and then I have to strongarm her back on, but unfortunately she has discovered bitting.  Even though it's just gums... it still hurts  a lot   also, if she wakes up at 5:00 should I not feed her?  She will go back to sleep until 7:00-8:00, but then she won't be hungry when she wakes up and that ends up throwing the whole day off.  Thanks!

[HeatherC]

Well, she might have a touch of a spirited personality, and, therefore, easily distracted while nursing.  Do you try to nurse her in a quiet, dim light room?  That is probably your best bet.  Also, I just feel that the more you make the move to a regular feeding routine at 3, then 3.5, then 4 hours, the better she will nurse at each feeding.  Your options with the early morning feed are to either give a light feed at 5, and finish at 7-8, or a full feed at 5, and offer at 7-8 and let her take what she will, then continue with your regular intervals of feedings for the rest of the day.  Without a full feed at 7/8, she should take full feeds the rest of the day and hopefully get on track.  Of course, I highly recommend utilizing our Breastfeeding Forum for further suggestions and/or advice.  I feel, though, that your situation is common, and is something that is resolved with a) a routine, and b) age.

Here is a thread that might be of benefit to you:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66476.0  (bobbing off and on the breast)