crying to sleep, Leaving the room and he screams himself to sleep

[DNH]

I have only just found this site and have been looking for similar posts, so i apologies if this has been asked a 100 times before.

I have an 18 month son who sleeps very well but the getting him to sleep is the issue.
He has a good routine where he has a bath then milk a story in his room then bed, i turn the lights off and say good night then the catch 22 starts.
If i stay in the room until hes asleep hes fine he will drop off quite calmly, sometimes its 5 minute other days 20 minutes.
If i try and leave the room he will instantly start crying and calling out for me.
I have tried saying good night then leaving the room and coming back in settling him and leaving again but this take about an hour to get him to sleep.
I have recently tried doing this but not going back in it went very well, the first night 45 minute then the next night 15 mins then 7 mins then 3 mins and now back to 15 mins.
Do i persevere with this hoping that one day he will be happy for me to leave the room and not cry himself to sleep?

thanks

[Florencia]

Hi dad needing help and welcome to the site!

Beleive it or not, you have it easy... you should see what some other moms/dads are into here LOL...

To answer your question, our philosophy in the site does not encourage any method of controlled crying/crying out for babies or toddlers. As Tracey used to say, there's always a gentler solution to every problem, we just have to find it.

Although it might look as your son is soothing sooner by leaving him figure things out on his own, it might backfire you later or he might develop a clingy/needy behaviour as a result of this. He's not learning the lesson you think (I might better go to sleep now), but a different one: it doesn't matter how hard or for how long i cry, dad/mom are not gonna come to me. And that lesson might cause him further behaviour issues, as strong separation anxiety, nightmares, etc.

I'm not saying this to scare you but i'd rather suggest you to keep on trying the walk in/walk out approach you were trying in the past, even when you mention it took longer to calm him, he was getting the right message (it's bedtime but dad is here for me to help me soothe). It should be easier as time goes by if you remain consistant to one method and not give in. The walk in/out technique is thoroughly described in the FAQ section of this forum, under a thread named "teaching independent sleep".

You can also talk to your son during daytime/bedtime routine about what a big boy he is and how great it is that he can go to sleep on his own, dad needs his sleep too, etc. They understand so much more than we can say at this age. Introducing a lovey (blanket, teddy bear) for him to hold might also be helpful to soothe him and think he's not alone.

I hope you find this info useful and please keep us posted about your progress. Good luck!

[DNH]

Thank you for the advice. I will go back to the walk in/out technique and let you know how i go.

[DNH]

Well thank you very much.
I did the walk in walk out method and within a week he was a lot happier for me to leave the room and fell asleep within 10 mins. Since then he has just got better where i can say good night and leave the room and not even need to go back in. He will now have a couple of little whines and drop off within minutes.  Fantastic.
what a good boy.

Thanks
 

[Sylvia.]

well done

[Florencia]

YAY! great job daddy! and totally agree with you: what a good boy! he deserves some pampering now, perhaps a new toy or a special outing to the park? Congratulations to both of you!

[DNH]

Oh the celebration are to early!  He has now gone back to screaming when i leave the room. Nothing has changed, the routine is still the same.
I have now had 3 nights of screaming and crying, it took 1 1/2 hours to get him to sleep the worst ever 2 nights ago and now he wakes during the night and crys, he hasn't woken during the night for a long time. I continued with the walk in a walk out method but it seem to make him worse evertime i go in.
I go in settle him and as soon as i make any slight indication that i might be leaving hes crys hysterically.
I dont know whats changed to make him like this now.
Any ideas why hes gone backwards, shall i keep on with the walk in method?

thanks

[Florencia]

Just when you think you have them figured out...

In every sleep training method, there is some setback to be expected although if he was doing ok for a consistant period (as he appeared to) i don't think it is due to a setback but other reason.

How is he doing during daytime? is he whiny or clingy? what about his naps? is he napping ok? for long periods? it could be very well due to overtiredness if the naps are a mess too or maybe an illness in development? have you checked other signs as runny diapers, stuffy nose? I think I'm gonna need more info on this to come up with a plan. Could you post what a typical day looks like?

Night wakings are associated to many factors such as overtiredness, teething, separation anxiety, illness, etc. We have to rule them out to really have it clear. I suggest you to check out the Faqs board on the top of this forum under a thread called Most common sleep busters to see if something clicks on your case.

Also, in the faqs section on the thread Teaching Independent Sleep you might want to check out the Gradual Withrdawal method to see if that will suit best to your lo in case wi/wo is getting to upsetting for him.

Keep us posted so we can help you solve the mistery!

[DNH]

Sorry for the delay in repling, we have been away on holiday and since returning I wanted to see what happened.

I think the waking maybe due to overtiredness, it seem to be on days where he has had less sleep in the afternoon.
I think he has got wise to the walk in walk out and it seems to wind him up. He has always been difficult to get to sleep but has always slept well once asleep.

A typical day is wakes between 6.30am and 7am, 8am breakfast, play group of some kind out activity, music, swimming. snack around 10.30am lunch midday. nap somewhere between 1pm and 2pm for anywhere between 40 mins and 2 hours. most of the time 1 hour 15 mins. snack about 4pm diner at 5.30pm bath 7pm milk story bed, which would be about 7.40pm when i am walking out.

I talk to Dylan at bed time about whats going to happen, that theres story then bed then daddy's going to the room next door, hes fine with all this hes fine until the point of saying goodnight once hes in his bed. I am sure its just a case of wanting me in there, any way i have started to say that i will see him in the morning and i am not coming back in, when i say this hes fine then i say good night and walk out hes crys for about 3-5 mins and then is asleep.

theres no change in the day with clingyness hes still very much himself.

[Florencia]

I think you might be onto something about the overtiredness. Certainly a 40 mins nap (or even a 1:15 one as you mention to be the "rule") is not enough to hold on for a 8 pmis bed time. When you say he goes for nap somewhere around 1 or 2 pm does that actually mean the going down time? 2 pm for a 630 am awake time is certainly a lot of time and that might mean he's going down for nap overtired, hence sleeps poorly, hence he doesn't catch up and goes down for the night overtired. A little bit of tweaking (putting him down no longer than 1 pm) and trying to extend the nap if it's short or making bedtime earlier on days he wakes before 2 pm. The idea is not to make awake times longer than 6 hours which is what most lo's that age can hold on before getting overtired.

HTH and good luck!

[DNH]

I have been trying to get the lunch time nap down time around 12.30 -1pm with mixed results of length of sleep time, but the night time is much better. Like i mentioned earlier I have found that the walk in/walk out was not working so well as me entering the room seem to stimulate him so i tweaked it a bit by walking to the door and when he grumbles talking to him softly then standing outside the door and doing the same until hes asleep, i only talk when hes starts to grumble or call out. Basically let him know i was there.
Now i can read the story put him in his bed and walk straight out the door with out him screeming or caring WOW. I then stand outside the door and let him drop off only talking when needed. Last night he was in his bed happily talking to him self for 1/2 hour before dropping off.
What a difference, next step walk out and not stand there.

Thanks for your help. DNH