Some advice for our very fussy 4 + month old

[simran]

Hi Tracy and Crew,

Our baby girl is almost 5 months. She had a very rough start to life, 2 weeks premature, an emergency C-section, three days in Special care, jaundice, colic/reflux for first three months. We saw a Podiatrist, Chiropractor, and Osteopath all to help her thru it. Colic and reflux seems better.

Her weight is great and growing well.

She was breast fed for first two months – unsuccessfully, so we resorted to solely formula feeds.

Your book – Baby Whisperer - has helped getting her into a routine.
Here is where we are at:

Wakes 4.00am
4.00am – 4.30am 1st Feed
4.30am – 5.00am Nappy Change and bed
7.00am – Wakes
7.00 – 8.00am – play in her cot as we let some daylight in
8.00 – 9.00am – activity

9.00am – 9.30am 2nd Feed
9.30am – 10:00am Activity
10.00 – 10:15am – bed (she normally can’t keep up past this without crying for sleep)
12:00 – wakes (we may walk her for an hour to reach the 1.30 feed time unless she does a 2.5hr sleep)

1.00pm – 1.30pm - 3rd Feed
1.30pm – 2.30pm - Activity
2:30pm – 3.00 - Sleep
3:30pm – 4.30 - walk if she only does her 30 minute sleep here

Nb: we find if we walk her after the 1.30 – 2.30 activity she sleeps less for this session

5:30pm – 6.30pm (4th Feed/bath/bed/sleep)

At this stage she does about 9.5 – 10 hrs. We dropped the dream feed last week. At least we can go to sleep by 9.30pm and get our 5- 6 hrs sleep.

We realize we break EASY since we would like for her to sleep up to her feed times, but because of the first two sessions we are behind the ‘8’ ball. We try catch up from midday but with the early activity AESY, this does not always work out.

On the whole she smiles a lot, but she is very moody/fussy and can’t quietly play of more than 30mins. She breathes fast like she is anxious.

Can you give us any suggestions?
Are we on the right track?
Will she grow out of this whining and fussiness?
Will she stretch her sleeps to 6.00am on this schedule, since we find if we stretch her night feeding time she cries and will not even bath properly?

Cheers Nush

[corrina01]

Is she always waking on the dot at 4am?

It sounds like your DD is overtired.

I would feed her at 7am even though she had her last feed 4am and start the day at 7am.  Keep A time to about 2hrs- 2hrs 15mins and then put her down for her nap.  She will want about 2 good sleeps and a catnap of about 30-45mins.

HTH

[simran]

Thanks for the advice Corrina. Yes she does get up between 3:45 and 4:00am and we give her a normal feed (180mls). We normally feed her again at 9:00am is this too late?

We are lucky if her 'A' time is more than 1.5 hrs she gets really grumpy for sleep - so we put her down. She hates the boucy chair only like being flat on her play gym - are we stimulating her too much?

She will do one two hour sleep, but the afternoon session she will wake after her 30 minute cycle and fussy for 30 mins and not get back to sleep. This is when the stroller comes out.

In total she is probably sleeping 9 - 10 hrs at night and 3-5 hrs during the day (2 hr, 0.5, 1) - sometimes we fluke 2 x 2 hrs sleeps - this does not include the 5.00am - 7.00am morning sleep, i guess this is part of the night sleep?

Appreciate your comments.

[samijoe]

hey simran:
i agree that you should maybe feed your lo at 7am instead of the 930.  it will also make your day flow way better too!  my lo is 4.5 months and on a 4 hour easy.  i can time her, pretty much right down to the second.  at almost the 2 hour mark after getting up and eating, she is ready to nap!!  it doesn't matter where she is, she goes to sleep.  i found the 3 hour easy much more difficult to follow, but the 4 hour really does give enough time to have a predictable pattern.  i always say that babies are like dogs, even they like a routine!  she will have 2-2hour, 1-45 min catnap with no fail--on a blanket in the corner, car seat, playpen whatever!!  she never did this before i established her routine!!  if your baby is fussy, they might really enjoy a solid routine!!
another tip, if my lo does wake at a weird time during the night (like 5am) for a feed (usually only during growth spurts-oops, i bf too), i find i don't always need to give her a full feed.  i kinda top her off so that she will last until the desired 7am wake up time.  i am sure this can be done with a bottle and maybe a pacifier too!  i really think that 2 hours of playing time is alot considering she doesn't eat in that space!  also, maybe if you tweaked her bed time....you could stretch out longer sleep...although you will have to teach her this!  good luck!

[simran]

Well today she got up at 5am, much to our delight, so we gave her small top up to try to get her to 7am. But she only made it to 6am. So we started our schedule at 6am - she didn't take a full feed since she probably had 60ml from the 5am feed and those hiccups started which normally puts a stop to her feeding. We will try keep her up till 8am (6 + 2) and go from there.

BTW how do we get her to sleep longer after Activity (as part of her 2 hr nap) since she gets up after her 30min cycle, does not cry only babbles and is happy to lye in her cot. Do we just leave her? but the problem with this is she then is too tired by the time her next feed is due or soon after it, so we struggle to keep her active for the preceding 2hours.

Help?

[samijoe]

You can try the shh/pat technique.  Umm, im not sure where to tell you to find it on the website (im sure it isn't too hard), but Tracy does explain it in the Baby Whisperer book.  Also, does she always wake at the same time??  If it seems like she always wakes at the same time, never cries and just babbles....you can try the wake to sleep method.  Those are my suggestions, but unfortunately they are just that.  I have never had to try these techniques, however my lo does so well on the 4 hour easy that i think they are definitely worth a shot.  I would look in Sleeping issues....
Good luck!  Oh, as long as your lo is just lying in the crib babbling, i see no harm in leaving them there until they fuss too much.  If they are good self soothers...they might just fall back to sleep!

[samijoe]

sorry simran...i didn't mean the shh/pat technique (mommy brain )...i really meant the PU/PD technique.
hope i didn't confuse.

[corrina01]

BTW how do we get her to sleep longer after Activity (as part of her 2 hr nap) since she gets up after her 30min cycle, does not cry only babbles and is happy to lye in her cot

This means she is not tired enough, try extending her A time by 15 mins as part if the winddown routine.

[HeatherC]

Simran, I agree that a scroll through our Sleep Forums might help you sort out her early wakings (which you actually consider night wakings) and naps.  However, I feel that once you are able to establish a more steady 4 hr feeding routine that might help her naps improve.  If she is obviously tired, do not try to keep her up any longer, that will only backfire.  Also, she will probably need a bedtime 12-13 hours from her morning waketime (whatever time you officially start the day), and trying to keep her up later will not cause her to sleep longer in the morning.
Have you reviewed our FAQs section at the top of the EASY forum?

[simran]

Hi Heather and Corrina,

Thanks for you advice.

Here is what we have done for two days.

Breakfast
---------
E - 7.00am
A -
S - 9.00am (sleeps 1.5hrs)

Lunch
-----
E - 11.00am
A -
S - 1.00pm (sleeps 1.5hrs)

Aft Tea
----------
E - 3.00pm - very grumpy drinks well but signs of overtiredness
A - 1.5hrs
S - 4.30pm (sleeps 1.5hrs)

(she crashes and we need to wake her at 6.30pm for her feed)

Dinner
------
E - 6.30pm (we need to wake her for this very grumpy, no chance of a bath just bottle,nap,bed)
S - by 7.30pm

Wakes at 5.30am we give her a small feed 60mls until 7.00am rise (we need to wake her for this).

(sleeps 9 hours + 1hr morning sleep (6.00am - 7ish)

She is still be very tired and grumpy especially during the "Aft Tea" and "Dinner"
 
Activity Breakfast - is fine her spirits are quite good up to 2 hours.
Activity Lunch is quite fussy and she crys and whines, we squeeze out 2 hours of activity.
Activity Aft Tea is only 1hr since she is very fussy and tired, just wants to sleep.
Activity Dinner is out of the question, infact the post dinner bath is impossible since she fusses so much, I guess since we had to wake her for this feed.

It seems she is ready for her night sleep between 5 - 5.30pm.

Do you think we should try the following? bearing in mind that her day starts at 5.30am so she should be in bed by latest (6.30)


Breakfast
---------
E - 5.30am (her new wake time)
A -
S - 7.30am

Lunch
-----
E - 9.30am
A -
S - 11.30am

Aft Tea
----------
E - 1.30pm
A
S - 3.30pm

Dinner
------
E - 5.30pm
A - bath only
S - by 6.30pm

If this works do you think she will ever stretch to 6.00am to 7.00pm on this schedule?

We don't mind the early rise - its just her constant fussiness and whimpers, esp later in the day.

Appreciate your help

[corrina01]

Try limiting her A times to 1hr 45mins after her first nap, this is what I done for my DD as she was fine with 2 hrs in the morning, she got a lot more cranky if I tried to keep her up the other A times for 2hrs

[HeatherC]

I've known of my lo's that want to sleep more than the "averages" and there is nothing wrong with that.  I had a friend with a dd that had 5 hrs of daytime sleep, and 13 hrs at night.  Just follow her cues and let her sleep when she's ready. 

[simran]

I think we will do the PU/PD if she rises earlier to get her to 6:30 - 7:00am Breakfast time, since she woke at 6:30am today so that's when we started our EASY day.

I suppose there is no harm in AEASY if she rose before her Eat time, provided we leave her in her cot and she is happy?