Early waking and short naps make it impossible to be on EASY

[VAmom]

 My subject line tells it all. I know I should put a typical day but I have no typical day...
My DS is 4 months old today. He was on Easy from 8 weeks to about 12 weeks when things really started changing.

He wakes up a couple times at night but is easily patted back to sleep.

He wakes for a feed between 5 and 6, which ruins any hope of starting our day at 7. What do I do if he wakes at 6 and wants to eat, by the time I get him back to sleep it is close to 7...do I then wake him up.

THen he will be up for and 1 hour and 15 min to 2 hours and then sometimes he will sleep for 45 min and sometimes over 3 hours. With the 45 min naps (he is wide awake and doesn't look tired). SO that messes up our routine, I isn't hungry so I usually postpone eating ( if he only slept for 45 min). but he is then ready to sleep again about 1 hour and 15 minutes to 2 hours later.

SO I guess here are my questions:
1. What do I do about wake up time if he goes to sleep at 6:45 and wake up time is 7?
2. If he wakes up froma 45 min nap early, do I feed right away or should I wait? (I am going to try the wake to sleep idea (I haven't tried that yet)
3. He just turned 4 months, so I should be on a 4 hour easy but sometimes he is overtired after 1 1/4 hours and sometimes he is fine for the full 2 hours, won't that affect my routine?
4. DO I really have to wake him from his really long nap (I know what you are going to say  ) DO you think this might help the shorter naps? (he usually has a several 45 min naps and one really long nap a day)

Okay I hope that helps.
Kit

[HeatherC]

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0 (wake to sleep)
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64273.0 (waking from naps)

Ok, I just wanted to include those links real quick so that I didn't forget.
3-4 months seems to be an age when the 45 min naps begin.  I encourage you to look through the NAPS board further for assistance in overcoming this obstacle.  Also, waking for a feed between 5-6 is common.  You want to either give a full feed then, and then a top up feed when you wake him for the day (which doesn't have to be 7, but should be a consistant time), or a light feed between 5-6 to hold him over until wake time and finish the feed.  From there on out, you carry on with the regular feeding routine.  Just because he 4 months old does not mean you have to have him on a 4 hour feeding routine.  Is he ready to stretch his feedings to that long?  Some babies, mine included, transition between 5-6 months.  You want to ensure he will consume enough calories in 4 feeds (plus the df if you use it). 
Regardless of when he wakes from his naps, you want to try and keep feeding times close to the same.  Just b/c he has woken early does not mean he is hungry, and if you try to feed him it might create a snacking situation.  You want to spend as much time as you can working on getting him back to sleep, or then you would just have some more A time before the next feeding.  Then, yes, he will be ready for his nap sooner, and that is what Tracy recommended anyway.  Of course, if you are on a 4 hr routine, you have a lot more time to deal with between feedings, but don't keep him up to the point of exhaustion just to get him to nap closer to his feeding time.
All in all, keeping a consistant feeding routine and continuing with sleep training should put his naps back in order.  Do you know his temperment (https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52283.0)?  If he is spirited, then it may be hard to catch his tired signs, so you might want to institute regular nap times.  You can play around with different amounts of A times to see which amount promotes the better nap length.

Also, make sure you check out our FAQs section for anymore guidance with EASY.

[VAmom]

Heather,
Thanks...
My DH and I started to think that maybe he is hungry so we started back with the dream feed. He took 4 ounces so I will know in the morning if that had any effect on his night wakings. I am going to try to be more consistant. Which I really think was my difficulty. 
So, I feed every 4 hours no matter what. And I am going to try the wake to sleep if this problem persists. Also I noted that I fed him 39 ounces today (including the newly instituted dream feed which was 4) and in the past he was eating on averate 30 ounces.

I am going to see how long he sleeps and decide tomorrow what the wake time should be. I was thinking it should be 7, since he tends to never make it much past 7:30 for bed time.

I just wanted to keep you updated but also let you know that I feel much more in control than I was earlier and I appreciate your help.
Kit

[VAmom]

All right we did the dreamfeed. He ate the full 4 oz. But he had a hard time settling afterward. Also he still woke at 4 and ate 7 oz. He also woke himself at 7 and ate 8oz. So we played for a while and then I successfully shush-patted him to sleep. (I had always given up and just let him put himself to sleep in the past) but it actually didn't take that long. And it worked!!!!!   
Today is a bad day for him becuase he has to get his 4 month shots.  I will have to wake him at 9:45 (if he doesn't wake himself) to eat and get ready for the doctor's. I know today will be off but I have faith that we will be back on routine soon!!!!
Kit

[HeatherC]

I know 4 months doesn't seem to be an average time for a growth spurt, but do you think he might be experiencing one?  My dd never had her's at the "usual" times, so he may be the same way.
Yes, if he is ready for a 4 hour feeding routine, then you will try to keep those times consistant, regardless of naps.  However, you can still be flexible, and he can even have varying lengths of time between each feed.  Some lo's can go a 4 hr stretch in the morning, but in the afternoon and evening prefer to feed every 3.5 hours.  And sometimes you'll have to get the last feed in for the evening even if it's only been 3 hours.  You don't want to clock-watch, but you do want to try and be consistant, it will be a benefit to you both.

[VAmom]

I just got back from the Ped. She said that we needed to start solids since DS is eating a lot. She thinks his night wakings are due to hunger. Anyway she also said something that really upset me. I was telling her about Jack sleep and she said at this age you just need to go with the flow, he'll get the sleep he needs.
 (this is the same doctor that told me it was okay at 1 month that he was awake for over 6 hours at a time), I knew there was no way jack was happy being up that long but I didn't know what to do until I found Tracey.

Heather- I'm confused. I don't understand how to be flexible yet consistant. (please don't feel I am being argumentative because I truely don't mean to be). I know that I am not supposed to be watching the clock, I should be watching the baby, but then the routines are in hours so really I am watching the clock right?
If I don't go by the clock, and I don't feed the baby just because he woke up from a nap, then how do I be consistant.
I am so confused!!!!

[etmom]

Just wanted to let you know that my ds sounds a lot like your lo.  He is now 4.5 months and, as of the past week, has finally settled into a routine.  He would do 45 min-1hr. 'cycles' in the morning of awake, asleep, awake, asleep.  Then he'd sleep three hours in the afternoon.  I never woke him because I just couldn't find it in myself to not appreciate these long sleep periods 
  He did start on solids at 4 months.  He has reflux and it has settled his stomach.  But I also think it has made him more satisfied.  I would have the same issues with him waking and not necessarily looking tired but I knew he was because he couldn't stay awake even an hour.  Then he got way overtired.
  Other than solids, I think he was just a little behind in developing his pattern.  The way I tried to be consistent with his feedings was to never feed him unless it had been three hours.  If it ended up the feeding was right before a nap, I'd be sure I at least changed his diaper or something after the feed to separate it from his nap.  And I knew he'd have that long stretch in the afternoon where feedings would be 4 hours apart.
  My boy can't stay awake for more than 1.5 hours at any time of the day except for an occasional evening.  It is difficult to judge his tired signs so I do my best to keep him up this full 1.5 hours.  I found that helped him sleep longer---I was so worried I'd miss his tired signs that I think I'd put him down too early.
  Finally, the older our los get, the more they tired themselves out with their physical work.  I think all these things worked together to balance him out.  Since he can't stay awake more than the 1.5 hours, even a 2 hour nap doesn't get him to the next feeding but I just wait 1/2 hour to give it to him when he wakes up.
  I'd just suggest to keep being sensitive to when he's tired, etc., and things should even themselves out.  I agree with the post that states it's not a good idea to feed them right when they wake up.  It could lead to snacking as well as their wanting food at the end of every sleep cycle.  I know there is the idea of extending 45 minute naps, but I guess I always assumed that since my boy would take a nice afternoon nap and sleep well all night long that wasn't the issue.  But i don't know if it may be for you or not.

Best of luck---it only gets better!

[VAmom]

etmom-
Thank you for your post. I just feel confused by him... when he was 4 weeks old he completely stopped napping. He would go 12 hours with out closing his eyes and I knew that couldn't be right. So we found Tracey and it changed our lives. He was happier, and played and not tired. But now I am just at a loss. I really am going to try the 3.5 - 4 hour routine. I know he can do it I just have to allow it to happen.
I'll keep you updated.

He has had several long naps today but, he had his shots and I know he doesn't feel well. I refuse to wake him today but we'll see how he feels tomorrow.

Oh, I do have a question. DId you do a dreamfeed. DS has been night waking, and I used to do a dreamfeed but I quit and now I am thinking of trying it again. I did it last night, he woke up at 4. SInce the Doc. said to add solids maybe I should just try that for now. What do you think?

[etmom]

The dream feed did not work with my ds.  It would make for more night waking.  I tried it when he was 2 mos. and again when he was 4.  Due to suggestions under a posting I sent out, I didn't do it.  He is now going 11.5 hours through the night.  He would wake up every morning at 4:30 so one morning I didn't go in and he went back to sleep.  Since then he's slept through it.  He wasn't really crying at that time, just whiny.  I knew I'd only respond if it turned into crying but it didn't.  So maybe it's a temperamental thing that the df didn't work.  It worked great for my 21 month old, but not this one.
  I have to admit my lo is almost 5 months and still confuses me, even with what I've learned about him. Sometimes he still takes short naps here and there, and I really can't tell if he's tired or not. I've probably seen him yawn 5 times in his life!  But based on other signs I can tell he's tired.  I don't know if you've experienced this, but it's difficult because other people say, "oh, he's not tired!"  But, as a mom, you know he is.  Also, I've done other reading on sleep and a couple hours is the max at this age.
  I'm sorry I don't have much more help other than I've been there and am still there in many ways!  Plus he has reflux and I'm wondering if that is bothering him as he is possibly not getting enough medication.  Ugh!  I just keep remembering things can only get better...How are things going with your lo?  I also just try to not have expectations and try to have a more go with the flow attitude.  And I keep assuming that some day this sleep stuff will become clearer with this guy...

By the way, do you know what your baby's temperament is?  I can't seem to figure his out.  In many ways he is an angel baby, but also seems touchy in some areas such as sleep.  But he's not overall touchy at all.  I've wondered about spirited because he is so curious about everything around him---nursing can be difficult but that's another story!  Just curious if you had thoughts on this.

[HeatherC]

Just wanted to pop in with my thoughts on temperment.  Your lo can be a mix of the different types, and knowing what type he is in relation to different situation can help you manage those situations.  For example:  my dd is an angel/textbook when it comes to eating and most of her play time, but her play around others or in new places can show spiritedness.  Then, she is touchy when it comes to sleep-likes her routine, a dark room, white noise to block out household noises, has to sleep in her own bed.  Her spiritedness can also show when it comes to changing activities or having guests at the house (gets hyper). 
HTH

Oh, and VAMom, I guess it would help you to watch the clock for feeding times, but you can budge 15 mins here or there depending on your day's plans, etc.  How are things going?

[VAmom]

Honestly things are going a bit better. I really think the problem was not being awake enough during the day and it was causing sleep issues at night. For the last 3 nights he has slept for 11 hours. I have really tried to calm myself down about his day time sleep. I was getting really upset by it, so yesterday I just "went with the flow".  He again slept 11 hours. I didn't record everything like I usually do (I am an avid excel person, I have tracking his sleeping and eating on a spreadsheet for the past month, I then get a running average of how much he eats and sleeps weekly and overall.) I was getting very worked up about when he last slept, and how long he was sleeping and it was to the point that I wasn't enjoying my son anymore. SO I didn't record anything yesterday, and I just followed his cues. He didn't sleep a wink from about 3 on yesterday and then conked out at 6 while he was eating. I know it isn't he Babywhisperer way, but I had to stop and enjoy my baby.

I am not sure where to go from here now. I don't want to go back to being so crazy about his schedule... But I don't know what to do. He is having a real hard time going to sleep. Today after being awake for 3 hours (I tried to get him to sleep earlier but I didn't push it) he cried for 5 minutes and then fell asleep.

I know I am doing things all wrong. I am struggling with being a babywhisperer parent, and not taking it to the extreme I was taking it to. I hope I am making sense.

Kit

[HeatherC]

Kit-you are not doing anything wrong.  There is no right or wrong when it comes to being a loving, caring parent trying to do the best for your child.  I think taking a break from the logs and clock watching might be just what you need.  My dd was a 30 min napper until she was 6 months old.  Once I stepped back and quit stressing over it (I just accepted it and was even able to laugh at the crazy situation), things slowly began to fall into place.  By taking the stress out of the equation, I was better able to evaluate what needed to be changed to make things go more smoothly.  Man oh man, I was super worried over getting in the naps, and all the feedings, etc.  When all in all, I was letting her life go by.
Oh, sorry to ramble, but I wanted you to know that you are not alone.  You will be just fine.  Take a break and re-evaluate at a later date.  Oh, and you can still be a BW parent even with short naps  .  BW is about respecting your child while gently guiding them in the direction of their best interest.  Just b/c your day doesn't perfectly go EASY doesn't mean a thing.  EASY is a tool to help you set up a predictable routine to your day, it's not a strict schedule or the gospel.
Keep me posted.

[VAmom]

Heather,
Thanks, I needed to hear that!

I love my little guy so much, and I just need to relax and enjoy. I am a stay at home mom now. Before I had him I was a workaholic. SO I have a tendancy to either do things with 110% or not even bother. I guess I need to find a middle ground (which isn't my strong suit). ANyway I will keep you posted.
Kit

[etmom]

Kit,  I am so glad you're doing what your instincts tell you!  And enjoying your baby.  I think most moms can get stressed by the same things you do. A couple weeks ago I was talking with another SAHM and she said she doesn't worry about what happens during the day with her dd because she stays home with her.  I had never thought of it that way.  Since we're at home there's not necessarily anything to prepare them for.  And a day at Grandma's goes somewhat differently no matter what   Yes, it helps our babies to have predictibility but they're also growing up so fast and, I've found, more flexible than we tend to think.

So glad your enjoying your little one---that is the most important thing!

[rinajack]

Just wanted to let you know that I have been through the same worry about Naps and what to do and how often to feed etc.  My 17w dd has 4 naps a day, only 30-45 mins unless ill, and each and every time wakes up happy, and ready for action.  I do not feed her when she wakes - I stick to 4 hours mostly, unless she shows hungry signs earlier, then I will feed at 3.5 hours.

I tried extending naps, but the constant struggle prevented us from enjoying each other, she would just get angry because she wanted to get up, and I would get upset because I was shh/patting for hours.  This way works much better for us.  Her naps are always at different times - sometimes she has up to 3 hours awake time, sometimes as little as an hour, av 2-2.5 hours.  But if I follow her cues, not the clock, she goes down in 2 mins.  The only things I stick to are never feeding to sleep, and always following the same routine to go down for naps, and always the same bedtime routine.  She sleeps 12 - 13 hours per night (am dropping DF tonight though, as not taking much of it lately).  We are both really happy and relaxed now.

I love the idea of the EASY schedule, but it wasn't working for us, so I have taken the main principles and we now work with an approximate order of events instead of a schedule.  Now we have either EASA or EASAS.

Go with your instinct - those issues are only a problem if you or your baby is not happy.

[VAmom]

THank you both for your encouragement. Things are really going so much better. He is napping 2 times a day but they are much longer (or at least they were for the last 2 days). ANd he is sleeping 11 hours at night without waking for his pluggy or anything. I am real happy and enjoying him. So until we start to have problems I am going to go with it. He is 18 weeks and I feel much less stressed.

Again I think you for your support. I thought since we aren't technically doing EASY then I wouldn't be able to post here anymore! SO thanks for making me feel welcome.
Kit