Waking to play for 2 hours!!!

[dougal]

My lo is nearly 5 months old and has never slept through the night. I have weaned him off his night feed as i suspected he didn't need it, and have started him on solids. His routine is really inconsistent as he wakes at different times each morning, from 5 -7.30am, so his routine is at different times even though we follow 4 hour EASY.

My problem is that when he wakes up, he wakes to play and i find it very hard to swaddle him and get him back to sleep. The past 2 nights he has been up from 3 - 5am playing with his toes. Bless him.

I really need some help to try and get him to sleep through.
He can stay up for over 2 hours for A time, and feeds every 4 hours, his naps are anywhere from 45 mins to 2 hours, and this makes no difference to his night sleep. Here's his routine so you can see if you can help me:

E - 7am 7oz bottle on waking (as near to 7am as i can)
     8am baby rice

S - 9 - 9.30

E - 11am 7oz bottle & baby rice

S - 12 - 1pm

E - 3pm 7oz bottle & baby rice

S  - 4 - 5pm 45 minutes

6.45 bath, massage

E - 7oz bottle and bed

E - 5/6oz dream feed

Night wakings anytime from 1.30 - 5.30am

Hope this is all you need to look at. This, by the way is an ideal day, but can be a lot different depending on naps and wake up time.
I feel like i'm going backwards.........
Donna
XXX

[Colin Macs Mom]

That is very very early to wean a night feed, and also to start solids - especially 3 times a day!    Did his doctor suggest that?

[KellyC]

Is his room pitch black so there's nothing interesting to see when he wakes up during the night?

Kelly x

[dougal]

Hi both,

No, the doctor didn't recommend the 3 feeds, i was following the suggestions of some of the weaning leaflets that i have. I knew he didn't need his night feed as he wasn't eating at his 7am feed and only having about 5 minutes breastfeed in the night.
Can I just ask why you think this is early to wean the night feed when the BW book states that babies should be able to sleep through from a very early age? Just curious....

His room isn't totally black as the sun comes up in his room about 5am, but before that it is.

I have been reading a few books and chatting to my HV about it, they have suggested waking him up from his naps, waking him at the 10.30pm feeds and reducing his solids so that he takes more milk? What do you think about these suggestions? I'll try anything that will help him. He's a very spirited LO and when he wakes, he just wants to play with me and i don't speak to him, just swaddle and put his dummy in.

[Colin Macs Mom]

I would really urge you to speak to the doctor before starting any solids and definitely do not do three feeds a day. If you really must do it at all, I would do morning only. It can cause gas, cramping and stomach upset and make sleeping worse. If you do it in the morning it gives them the day to get it out of their system.

Sleeping through the night is a relative term and it doesn't necessarily mean sleeping 12 hours or what not straight with no wakes. For example, with a younger LO sleeping 6 hours straight without waking is considered sleeping through even if it means that they go down at 7pm and wake then at 1am. Most LOs need at least one night feed for quite some time, even up to a year.

[dougal]

Hi there,

Sorry i havent replied but the server has been down when i have tried to log on.

I was just about to compose a reply justifying why i have weaned my Lo and weaned him off his night feed, but i don't feel as though i have to as i know my baby better than anyone and he is very happy and content and not in any distress at all.
I really just wanted to know if there was anything that i could tweak in my routine to help us with these wakings.

Anyway, thanks very much for your help.

[Loujo]

Hi!
The BW SAYP does say that by 4 months LOs should be able to sleep through for a minimum of 8 hours between feeds and that most can go 10 hours...
So Donna - why don't you just start your day whenever he wakes up be it 1.30 or 3.30am 
x

[Clayts]

No, I don't think its too early to wean, we started giving my son solid's from about 4 months (5 months old now).  The advice on the packets and leaflets and a whole loads of places say from four months is OK and if you think you child is ready go ahead.  Ours was ready.  If he started to get distressed we would stop, he's not, he loves it.

You know your baby better than anyone else, just because other people have different opinions about weaning doesn't make their views right.  I have read the pro's and con's of both sides taken the info on board and made an informed decision.  Sometimes there is a 'holier than thou' attitude on here although many people make recommendations and advice that is sound and constructive rather than 'telling you off' and making you feel like a bad parent.  Respect that a decision has been made and help that person with their question rather than just criticising them for doing something you personally don't believe in.

If someone chooses not to wean their baby until 6+ months I respect that decision and I can see why they would have chosen to do this because I have probably read the same arguments against early weaning as them.  But I have chosen different, sometimes there is a very patronising tone to some of the telling off posts here, very unhelpful.

From books and Internet you can get a whole load of conflicting advice so you have to pick your way through it and choose the bits you agree with and believe in.  I agree with some of what the baby whisperer says but not all and frankly I think some of the advice is silly. 

Every baby is different and sleeping through the night is indeed a relative term but I don't think any one thinks 7pm - 1am is sleeping through the night.  maybe 11pm - 5 or 6am.  So you still do a dream feed at 10-11 and he still wakes at 1.30?  Ours gets through with a dream feed at 11ish and then wakes at around 6-7am.  That is what I consider sleeping through the night.

</Rant Over>

[dougal]

Well thanks to you both...I was feeling a bit "told off" and of course all i want to do is do the best for my LO. He loves his food and i've been so carefull to introduce new food every 3 days etc etc so i feel as though i've done the right thing.

As for the sleeping through, every parent i'm sure is waiting for the day when their LO gets through the night!! I know I am.

Good news though, i've tweaked his routine so he has 1 morning nap and 1 long one at lunch time, and also have changed his feeds to give him solids about 5.30pm. Last night, he woke 4am but settled himself, and then woke at 5.30, and daddy settled him back down until we woke him at 7am to start his day!! Me? Well, i was awake from 4am waiting for him to wake up!!!

Anyway, lets hope the playtime stops and he starts to go through........................fingers crossed XXX

[KellyC]

Nice one Dougal    We also found the shorter morning nap and longer afternoon nap worked for us.  You may still find that getting his room pitch black helps him from waking at all during the early hours when the sun comes up.

Clayts, Just for the record I don't think any of the previous posts on this thread were 'holier than thou' or at all judgemental in relation to starting solids early and I don't believe the mods (who by the way are volunteers who spend alot of their free time trying to help fellow parents) deserve the criticism you seem to be throwing their way.  I understand that you mightn't agree with all of Tracy's advice but if that's the case why join her website which was set up to support the advice she gave?  I also think it's a little disrespectful to call her advice 'silly' when she's not here to defend or discuss it.  As far as early weaning goes, beliefs or opinions or 'knowing your baby best' don't really come into it so much as the scientific research that's been done in recent years and it's about whether your baby's body is ready to cope, not whether they'd enjoy it or not.  I think the mods have an obligation to point this out and it would be irresponsible for them not to do so.

K x

[Ennypen]

Hi all

The nail has been hit squarely on the head.. we all know our LO's better than anyone else and when it comes to knowing whether its time to start feeding solids or time for 2 or 3 solid meals noone knows better than us mommies for our own LOs. I personally gave William one meal at 4 months as he was more than ready, 2 meals at 5 months and 3 meals at 6 months as again he was ready and he has always enjoyed his food, is happy and healthy etc.

Dougal I am sorry that you feel that you have been told off about your choices.. and I hope that this has not put you off posting in the future. To me it sounds as though you were acting with knowledge and consideration when you were weaning your LO and it sounds as though he is doing well with his food! Well done!

As a site we are here as Zanders mommy says to support the work of The Babywhisperer Tracy Hogg and keep her work very much alive. Saying that we all understand that her advice will suit some parents and not others... will suit some LOs and not others. Tracy herself was, I am told, very open to people tweaking and modifying her techniques to suit their LOs as long as they kept to the basic beliefs that she had.  On the site we are all aware of this and we do avoid criticising Traceys methods we merely acknowledge that all LOs are different and some works for some while it doesnt for others.

In addition to our support of Tracys work we also have to be mindful of the guidelines for such things as weaning LOs and would be irresponsible if we didn't draw parents attention to them.

Claytz, I hope that I can rely upon your understanding that our Moderators work very hard and as Zandersmummy says we are all parents and volunteers trying to help others in our free time. If you feel that we haven't got it right by all means say so - we need to know how we can do better for members sometimes.. but in doing so remember that we are trying hard to help not criticise or build ourselves up as the perfect model of parenthood - far from it.

I hope to see you both posting again soon. Dougal it sure sounds as if you are doing well with the waking issue! I hope it continues to resove itself and you will soon be sleeping through the night.. something William didn't do till 10 months!

Hugs

Helen (Global Moderator)

[Colin Macs Mom]

I assume that I am the person who is being called holier than thou and accused of telling people off. I'm not trying to start anything here but I do feel I have a right to defend myself. In no way was I judging anyone or telling anyone off. If you look back, I was merely asking questions to try and understand what was going on in your situation to help you. That's my job and responsibility as a moderator. Then I provided you with my advice based on that information.  I'm sorry if you didn't like my advice, but my job here is NOT to tell you what you want to hear, but to help the best I can based on BW methods and Tracy's legacy, with some actual medical facts thrown in as well. I take that very seriously and it hurts my feelings to be called holier than thou. I don't know everything, I have never pretended for a minute that I do. My DS never slept through the night until he was 7.5 months for goodness sake. Even now he doesn't sleep through every single night. I had stopped posting on this thread because it was apparent that my assistance as a moderator wasn't respected and frankly I don't need that. Thank you Ennypen and zandersmummy for sticking up for me and all mods.

As members here, all of us have a responsbility to treat each other with respect and kindness - that's what BW is about. If anyone had an issue with something said it would have been approptiate to take it up in a PM rather than in the public forum; that's like talking about someone as if they aren't in the room. Dougal, I also hope that your improvements continue and that you keep posting here. But please understand that this site it to support BW methods and concepts.

With all that being said, I am locking this thread. Obviously it's run its course and everyone's had a chance to clarify themselves.

[Colin Macs Mom]

My apologies, I have unlocked this thread.  I realize it was premature for me to do that. I was assuming that any further posts would be negative and it was unfair of me.

[Lana]

Hey there

I have to say that when I first read this thread, there was only your intial post and Jessica's first reply, I totally agreed that the solids could be affecting your babies night sleep. 

It seems that in true BW fashion you are reading your baby's cues and adjusting your day accordingly .  Well done.

[Kimberly®]

I also agree that the solids could be having a negative effect on your LO's sleep, and that at 5 months he may not be ready to go 12 hours without a feed. Now before you feel I am bashing your choices, I am not. I also started solids early, I feel strongly though that that should be done under a doctors supervision. This is not to imply that you don't know your child, not at all, but at this age most LO's tummies are not ready. That said there are of course reasons to start. Ours was a failure to thrive.

What I don't like is that many new parents are told "start solids, they'll sleep better" Its NOT TRUE!! if you feel your reasons are valid then by all mean continue, but perhaps you should also take the time to read the information about why itsa better to wait. Old research suggest 4 months, new says 6, either way as the parent it falls to you to make the choice. When you start solids LO's take less breastmilk/formual and therefor don't get the calories they need. Breastmilk and formula are the main food for the first year of life.

As for sleeping through the night, 6-8 hours is considered sleeping through the night. The majority of babies don't sleep 12 hours without a feed, especially breastfed babies, untill after a year. Its not unreasonable to expect one waking a night. That said if you deside to wean your child and they show they are ready then of course you want to do that. go slow and be flexable. My DD for example would need a feed some nights, and nothing other nights. Each baby is different, age and weight have little if anything to do with sleeping through the night.

Also I would like to add that I see that you are reading your child well and doing great with him. Please don't take our coments as insults because they are not, they are advice and information we can share, and then you can use whatever way works for your LO.