can you clarify a question about 3.5 hour EASY

[frankiesmom]

I think my ds may be ready for 3.5 hour EASY b/c he is not eating alot at his feeds and is waking at night to eat.  He is 11 weeks old and goes to bed at 7:30/8:00, df at 10:30 and then wakes between 1 and 2 and between 4 and 5.  During the day he goes 3 hours between feeds, give or take 15 to 30 minutes when we either have a 45 minute nap or sleep longer then 1.5 hours and I have to wake him. 
In the FAQ section it shows a routine that has the A time at 2.5 hours before the second nap.  Is this right?  Why not just increase A time to 2 hours for all of the naps?
I am concerned about increasing his awake time b/c he is definitely tired at 1.5 hours but I really think he should be eating more based on the amount of time he eats ( usually only 10 minutes) and his disinterest in eating. 
I think his night wakings are related to this issue and then the night feeds make him need to eat less during the day, but I am not sure how to remedy this.
Any thoughts would be helpful.

Thanks,
Kim

[HeatherC]

Hi, Kim.  I'm not sure what part of the FAQs section you have a question about.  But I think that you want to hold off on feeds for 3.5 hrs to increase his interest then that is fine.  Also, if he doesn't nap up until the next feed, then you will have a bit of extra A time before the feed.  Just keep it low-key as it should be considered part of his rest time.  Don't stretch his A time before naps unless he's ready or it will cause overtiredness.

[frankiesmom]

Thanks, in the FAQ section about transitioning to 3.5 and 4 hour EASY, it gives examples of the schedules and it shows the first nap from 8:30 to 10 and the second nap from 12:30 to 2:00 which makes the A time 2.5 hours before the second nap.  I guess I just didn't understand that. 
Is it possible that at his age he needs to go 3.5 hours between feeds?
The issues that I have is that at the end of the day, he doesn't seem very hungry and then he gets up before his df.

So, yesterday was like this:

7am wake
8:30 nap (1 hour)  usually 1.5 here
10:00 eat
11:30 nap (2 hour) woke him up from this one
1:30 eat
3:00 nap (2 hour) woke him up from this one
5:00 eat
then I didn't do the catnap b/c it was too late so....
6:30 bath
7:00 eat (didn't eat much at all)
7:30 bed
9:15 he woke and was hungry (ate his df bottle (3 oz)
1:15 woke but went back to sleep on his own
2:15 eat
4:45 eat (barely ate here)
6:45 wake
7:00 eat (but didn't eat much b/c just ate 2 hours ago)

it seems like no matter what happens at night, even if he gets his df at 10:30, he still wakes at the same times, btw 1 and 2 and btw 4 and 5.  i think it is somewhat of a habit and I think he is snacking (he only ate for 10 min at 2 and 5 minutes at 4) and then eating less during the day.  I also think it is somewhat ap b/c he has reflux and I hold him for 20 minutes so he is asleep when i pit him back down.  but I don't want to try to pat/sh him thru those times if he is too young to skip them and is hungry.
does that make any sense?

thanks, kim

[LŠuren]

Kim

The 3.5hr EASY routine int he FAQ section has been taken from another BW's routine, as the 3.5hr EASY routine isn't listed in any of the books. It is meant as a guide only for 3.5hr between E times, you would just adapt it to suit. 

[frankiesmom]

So, sorry to be a pain, but can you take a look at this and see ifthis is right?

7 wake,eat
8:30 to 10:00 sleep
10:00 to 10:30 A
10:30 eat
11:30 to 1:00 sleep
1:00 to 2:00 A
2:00 eat
2:30 to 4:00 sleep
then eat would be at 5:30, which would then be the same time as the catnap from 5:30 to 6:00, then eat would be at 7:30 again before bed, which I am afraid he would not be hungry for.  This is what happened last night and he then woke at 9:15 for a feed! So, no df either.

What do you think I can do about this?

Thanks,Kim

[LŠuren]

What about trying E at 5pm, so your sort of Cluster feeding

[frankiesmom]

And then at 7 again?  Is that what you were thinking?  I guess I am worried about him not taking much of a feed if I do that which is the way he has been in the past when I have tried to cluster feed
Do you think I should try to do the 3.5 hour feeds, or am I rushing it?

Thanks
(sorry to be a pain!)

Kim

[LŠuren]

E 7 wake,eat
A 7.30
S 8:30 to 10:00 sleep
A 10:00 to 10:30 A
E 10:30 eat
A 11.00
S 11:30 to 1:00 sleep
A 1:00 to 2:00 A
E 2:00 eat 
A
S 2:30 to 4:00 sleep
A
E 5:00 eat
A
S 5:30 - 6:00
A
E 7:30 eat
S

or 3.25hr EASY

E 7 wake,eat
A 7.30
S 8:30 to 10:00 sleep
A 10:00 to 10:15
E 10:15 eat
A 10.45
S 11:30 to 1:00 sleep
A 1:00 to 1:30
E 1:30 eat 
A 2:00 to 2:30
S 2:30 to 4:00 sleep
A 4:00 to 4:45
E 4:45 eat
A
S 5:30 - 6:00
A
E 7:30 eat
S

Kim, remember there is no hard and fast rule aboutt changing to 4hr EASY at 4months, just follow your LO's cues. 

[frankiesmom]

I wish it was easier to read their cues!  Everytime I think I have him figured out, he goes and changes on me!  I never know if when he takes a 45 minute nap it is b/c he is overtired or undertired.
I really don't think he can stay up for over 1.5 hours, b/c once I swaddle him, he is asleep usually within 5 minutes.
So, I will try some A time before I feed him to spread out the time btw feeds and see how that works.

While I have you, can I ask you a few other questions and then I will be out of your hair?

1.  I am wondering about weaning the swaddle.  I know he doesn't have great control over his arms when he is tired, but he sucks his hands when he is awake and sucks my shoulder like crazy after I swaddle him.  Should I try to wean him?  If I do, do I just leave one arm completely out of do I swaddle it so that his arm is bent and his hand is near his face?
He really seems to be getting too long for the Miracle blanket too and he is getting his legs out.

2.  If he wants to sleep more then 1.5 hours for some of the naps, can I let him?  Sometimes I have to wake him up at the 2 hour mark and I just want to make sure that he is not getting too much sleep during the day which is messing up his nights.  On average he is getting 5.5 hours during the day and 11 hours at night (with 3 feeds).

3.  We still have some issues with 45 minute naps.  Usually one nap a day is 45 minutes and it is not always  the same one.  Right now I am just putting my hand on his back and his legs (if I can get to him and I am not busy with my 2 year old).  If he starts having issues again (or with nighttime issues) and he is over 3 months old, do I switch to PU/PD or continue with pat/sh?

4.  At night after the catnap, should their A time be roughly the same as it is during the day or should they be awake for a little bit longer before going to bed?

Thank you, thank you,. thank you!

You moderators are so patient and kind to help us out so much!  Don't know what I would do with out you!

Enjoy your weekend!

Kim

[LŠuren]

1.  I am wondering about weaning the swaddle.  I know he doesn't have great control over his arms when he is tired, but he sucks his hands when he is awake and sucks my shoulder like crazy after I swaddle him.  Should I try to wean him?  If I do, do I just leave one arm completely out of do I swaddle it so that his arm is bent and his hand is near his face?
He really seems to be getting too long for the Miracle blanket too and he is getting his legs out.

Here are some 'swaddle' links to help you decide.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=62012.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66746.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63879.msg474327#msg474327
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66081.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64003.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65058.0
**if you do a search under swaddle you will find loads of excellent info.

2.  If he wants to sleep more then 1.5 hours for some of the naps, can I let him?  Sometimes I have to wake him up at the 2 hour mark and I just want to make sure that he is not getting too much sleep during the day which is messing up his nights.  On average he is getting 5.5 hours during the day and 11 hours at night (with 3 feeds).

Tracy says in her book to make sure you wake for their next 'E' time

3.  We still have some issues with 45 minute naps.  Usually one nap a day is 45 minutes and it is not always  the same one.  Right now I am just putting my hand on his back and his legs (if I can get to him and I am not busy with my 2 year old).  If he starts having issues again (or with nighttime issues) and he is over 3 months old, do I switch to PU/PD or continue with pat/sh?

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=9287.0   pu/pd for 3 month old

4.  At night after the catnap, should their A time be roughly the same as it is during the day or should they be awake for a little bit longer before going to bed?

It is usually a little bit longer


HTH's

[frankiesmom]

Thank you!!!!