mother of early waking, night waking, paci & 5am milk addict needs help!

[sammiesmummie]

6.45 up breakfast by 7
9ish nap
11 snack
12 lunch
2 nap
3 snack
5 dinner bath bottle
7 bed alseep by 7.30 latest.

thats my ideal but it does sway though he doesnt sleep past 3pm and bed time is

sammie is 9.5 mo boy

my problem is that he actually wakes at 5ish(has done for months)  but i dont let him up and if he does go back to sleep then i get him up at 6.45 unless i over sleep! we had a 4.20 wake today(despite a 7.40 bed time because we got up late 7.45am and he didnt go for a nap until 3.50pn after pd since 2.10pm) and he didnt settle until 5.50 then we got up at 7.30. The night before was a perfect 7ish to half 5. We'e been having some 3.30amish wakings too and that normally goes for an hr hr30 2 max.

when he wakes at 5ish he is properly awake. he won't go back to sleep after milk, he spits his paci and just cries for attention.

i did remove the 5ish feed but he's been ill recently and its been incredilbly hot so he's had it again(only way to get the med downhim) I know i've totally made a rod for my own back and accidently parented my way in to a corner.

i just cannot handle the 5am wake up with work etc. hes having sep angst too and is finding it hard to settle without us(specifically me)  in the room. its causing a lot of stress. i've been doing pd but am thinking of switching to wi/wo. I have posted before on the naps board but now naps are fab and i want to work on the early waking.

aims: 7 to 6.45! he doesnt seem to be able to sleep more than 10hrs.
eventually dump the paci at night and naps too but not sure i could stick it out right now.
get rid of the 5am feed, do i go cold turkey?

know its all long winded but i just needed to get it clear in my head what i need to do sorry! please help x

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi there

How have the last couple of nights been?  I wonder if you could try an earlier bedtime?  Often an earlier bedtime will mean a later wake time, I know it seems strange but it's true.  I would try a bedtime of 6.30pm for a bit, see how that goes.  I also think that it is not unusual that your LO is wanting you in the room while he settles at the moment, he is at a prime age for separation anxiety.  I think the key is to be with him when he needs you there.  On nights when he is calm about going to sleep you could try going out of the room but go straight back when he calls out to you.  It is a phase and it will come to an end.

hth and good luck
Jo

[Zoey]

Hey there Mother of Sammie who loves all those things!

At 9.5 months I feel a bedtime of 730pm is fine.  At 9.5 months also, they don't need as much sleep.  How long are his 2 day naps on average?  How long are the A times exactly? Perhaps he is getting too much day sleep, so he doesn't feel like he needs as much at night lol.

Do you think there is something developmental going on - perhaps he is about to stand, walk, balance your check book    Anything like this can cause wakings.  Could he be teething?

Can you tell me about this paci - can he use it 100% of the time with no help from you?  If he doesn't require help ever with the paci, finding it, putting it in etc - then is is a comfort item and ok.  However if Sammie cries and needs you to come in and help him with it - it is a prop and PD doesn't work well (if at all) with a prop.  PD is a tool used to teach self soothing and thereby indep sleep.  He can't learn this lesson if a paci is soothing him - know what I mean? 

Tell me about this 5am feed.  Most likely he doesn't need this feed.  Would you agree?  Is he taking in a good amount of solids and milk during the day?  If you don't believe he is truly hungry you can do the water down method - lemme find it!  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0 - there ya go!   OR you could just not give the feed and do PD.

You should do PD for all night wakings not related to pain or hunger.  You know him best - though if daytime meals and feedings are firmly in place he shouldn't need a feed at night - though some do.

If he is having some SA - Wi/Wo may make this worse.  You can try the gradual leaving thingy - hang tight lemme find it...
8 MONTHS TO A YEAR - At this age you really don’t do any pick up as babies 8 months and up tend to soothe faster in the crib.
·   You wait for them to stand up or pull up and then you place them back down so they are looking away from you and not at your face.
·   If you feel they are truly frantic and need more you can pick them up for a moment but you put them straight back down.
·   At this age it’s important to use your voice even more.  Your baby will start to recognize what you are saying, eg. “I’m not  leaving you, you’re not alone, it’s nap time” etc.
·  At this age you may need to pair pu/pd with gradual leaving of the room.  First you stay in the room until asleep, then move a few feet from the crib, in a few days you move to the door, then out the door
.

Yep there it is in BOLD!  This may help more if SA is a problem.  Also that is the adaptation for his age incase you hadn't seen it though I am sure you have!  Also for the SA you can do alot of peak a boo - leave him in the crib and say Ill be right back m leave and go right back to show him that you will come back. With SA it can be tricky. You might find wi/wo works better, but you might also find it doesnt. I say use your gut, it every time you enter he calms down, and plays, and he is  like this when you are in the room, you might want to use the walk in walk out  BUT do not stay out for more then 3-5 seconds, he is a baby, not a toddler.  If you do want to try wi/wo here is a great post:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=60390.30.

I HTH storm coming here!

ZOey

[Katet]

OK I'm going to agree with both the other posters... 7.30 may be too late & causeing early waking... definitely the cause of my ds#2 if he goes to bed after too long A time in the afternoon, he wakes early the next day.
BUT with ds#1 he has never slept longer than 10.5 hours overnight in his 3 years of life... maybe if I knew BW when he was under 1yo, I may have found he could go longer with a change to bed time, but some babies do ok on night sleep.

I guess the thing is if he is up from 3pm then 7.30 is a long time... my ds#2  only just copes with that at 14mo, so since it is such an easy concept it is worth trying before you look at the other options Zoey suggests

[Zoey]

Absolutely try an earlier bedtime   I just don't think its too late is all - just my opinion.  At 9 months the average rec night sleep is 11 hours, day is 3.  As we all know every baby is different, and if putting him to bed at 645pm fixes things, absolutely give it a shot!  Just as Katet's baby can't/couldn't do alot of A time - mine at 6.5 months does 3 -3.5 hours of A time.  Owen takes 2, 1h15 - 1h30m naps a day and sleeps 12 hours at night.  So as you can see they are all SO different!  LOL - crafty lil beings eh?

I think my post was less about the bedtime and more about the paci, 5am milk addiction, and the night waking - with the info about the Pd, the wi/wo you are thinking about and how to get rid of that 5am milk feeding if you don't feel he needs it anymore.

I hope something here helps! Let me know if I can help in any way, and let us know how things are going!

BIG HUGS
Zoey

[Katet]

Oh I had a thought about the milk at 5am... what I found was if I fed my ds#2 on waking, he woke gradually earlier expecting a feed & not going back to sleep after it. As I bf it was harder as his lengh of feed varies, but for bottle you can cut back by 1oz every 3 days as well as delay it by 15mins every, so that eventually it becomes part of his day feed. I went cold turkey with ds#1 on his early am feeds & he just kept waking early, but with ds#2 I did it gradually & after a week or 2 (can't quite remember)he was back to waking at 7am (apart from teething/illness/leaky nappy issues) rather than looking for a 5.30 feed & not settling again . ... but it may take up to 3 weeks to see a good change & every time you go back to the old way you are back to square one again.

Also as you delay the feed also try to delay the time of the first nap, so eventually it works towards 3-3.5 hours from your ideal wake up time, as you may have the problem of day naps robbing from the last sleep cycles in the night sleep, which often happens with an early milk feed

[sammiesmummie]

hello lovely ladies!

thanks for the great advice! I'm going to try out some of the ideas. He does knock back his early am feed so not sure whether he needs it or not.

Sorry for delay in response but we've been in Spain visiting family which totally threw everything out but he's been back a week and has slotted right back into his "routine". Bless him.

I think he thought he'd died and gone to heaven in spain, children go everywhere with their parents, sammie enjoyed salsa with his grandmother at half 9 at night!! plus loved tortilla and lentils of all things.

He's ill again at the moment, everyother week it seems at the moment its either teeth, cold or tummy bug which doesn't help. He's now 10 months bless him and just about to take his first steps!!!!

anyways thanks ladies xx

[Zoey]

Aww Spain, how nice!

I am sorry he is ill Big hugs to him and I hope he feels better soon.  Let us know how we can help.

Love,
Zoey

[sammiesmummie]

hi! it's been so long since i could post!

he got sick again and right now seems very dependent on the bottle to sleep. So cold turkey ie no bottle no dummie is starting tonight just put down. Which is so hard to do when i know just a few sips on the bottle and away to sleepland he goes but it's def increased his night wakings but has pushed back the time he wakes up.

We need to get back on our sced. So hard when he's at nursery, no way will he have his 2hr am nap there! Too much to do!

Anyone got any teething tips? he's drooling like a gd un!

Hugs to all the babies and very helpful mommies