Separation Anxiety?

[Lynette Ng]

Hi Moms,
It was reassuring reading your posts and being reminded again that we all go through these transition periods with our lo!  We're having a really difficult time with the final 2 to 1 transition, and I am writing to ask for help.  Our lo is 16 months and seems ready to drop the AM nap.  Emma wakes at 6:30AM and is usually napping by 10ish.  She started abruptly to cry in her crib when I put her down 10 days ago and this was repeated every day.  I've sinced moved nap time then to 1:30PM hoping for a good single nap, but she wakes up crying and screaming after 45 minutes.  She's then overtired by evening having been up all day except for 45 min (when she's typically napped about 3 hours daily- this has all happened quite suddenly), so we have tried to put her down about an 1-1.5 hours earlier, about 7:30PM instead of 8:30/9PM).  However, instead of quietly and peacefully playing in her crib until she sleeps (which she's done for the past year), she starts screaming and crying hysterically until she throws up.  We've gone in to comfort her- she stops crying- we read to her then try to put her down- and the screaming begins again until she vomits.  We don't want to encourage her to cry harder and harder, expecting us to come get her, especially when we know she should definitely be in bed, but it's incredibly difficult to hear your little baby crying so pitifully.  Tonight, I cried as I listened to her cry and scream for me for 45 minutes before she knocked out.  Please help.  Please let me know if this bedtime behavior is due to Emma being overtired and that if we're patient with the routine, she will make the transition in the days to come, and return to her usual peaceful self?  Is there anything I should know or be doing differently- any thoughts  would be so welcomed and much appreciated.  Thank you in advance.  I am wondering if she is suffering from separation anxiety and if I should return to her room every few minutes to comfort her then leave instead of leaving her to cry it out?
Lynette

[KellyC]

Hi Lynette

I personally think she sounds very over-tired.  If she's waking at 6.30am then I would aim for lunch at 11.30/12 and put her down for her lunchtime nap at 12/12.30 at the very latest.  If she's not overtired when she goes for her nap then she's more likely to sleep past 45 minutes.  If she has a good nap I'd aim for a 6.30/7 bedtime but if the nap is poor I'd go even earlier, say 6pm.  I would also take her out for a walk in her pushchair mid-morning so that she's resting even if she's not napping and this break may help her to make it to her nap less tired.  If you want to do a later bedtime then I'd be tempted to keep her on two naps by giving her a 15 minute catnap mid-morning and then pushing the afternoon nap out to 1pm which would mean she could get to a later bedtime less tired.

I would also go in and reassure her if she's crying constantly, I personally put a 30 second limit on it.  If he's cried constantly for at least 30 seconds then I go in and reassure him for a couple of minutes before leaving again.  You might find the walk in / walk out thread on the sleeping for toddlers board helpful.

Kelly x

[Florencia]

Hi Lynette!

I think you have a mixture of issues here. Starting with Emma not getting enough sleep for night sleep (if she was going to bed at 830-9 and waking at 630, she was getting less than 10 hours). That was probably compensated with the 2 naps but now that she's old enough to hold on for longer awake time periods, this is taking a toll on her. My first suggestion would be to move her bedtime forward, say 730 or 8 pm if she constantly wakes at 630 pm.

Then you have the nap transition, I totally agree with Kelly that she's overtired by 130 pm. My ds is 25 months old and is a wreck by 6 hours awake time. Emma is too young to hold for more than 6 hours so by going down at 7 hours, she's likely to be overtired and hence the short nap (she can't relax enough in order to reach a deep sleep phase). Try her awake time to be no longer than 5.5 hours and offer a snack at her usual nap time (10 am), then lunch at 11-1130 and keep daytime activities very low key in order to help her relax faster when she goes down for her nap. The first few days, she'll keep the overtired pattern so don't be dissapointed if she still naps shortly after all this tweaking. In this days (poor nap days) you can try to extend the nap with walk in/walk out or any other sleep training method for toddlers (you will find a thorough description of them in the FAQ board at the top of this forum). IF you can't manage to extend the  nap, then it's early bedtime.

Then the other issue i think you might be facing is the separation anxiety caused by the long periods she's been left to cry. YEs you're right, 45 min of crying is too much. I can guarantee you that she's not crying to test how much crying you can take, but for a genuine reason. IF you try wi/wo you're not doing a controlled crying sleep training techique and also you will not be teaching her that it's ok to cry cause you'll come and get her. But also (and very important!) you will not be leaving ehr to figure things out on her own. You need to be there for her if she needs you. Her cries are the clue and now she must be thinking "wow she's gone and wont' be coming back" and that's why she cries for so long. You need to attend her cries. You'll get the difference between a genuine cry and a whine. If she's whining, let her alone to figure it out, it might be even a way to soothe. But if she's crying, go to ehr and try to reassure her. This will help her build confidence on being on her own and will help the sleep training.

Let us know how you get on. We will be here for you during this hard process. Good luck!

[Lynette Ng]

Dear Zander's Mommy and Florencia,
How can I thank you enough for your replies!  It is so comforting to know that we have friends out there who care about what we're going through.  This is a wonderful blessing to have found and be part of this network of BW fans!  I'm so sorry it's taken me a while to reply, so I do sincerely hope you get this message of thanks, but things have been changing lots on this end.  I will take your good advice and see how things go, I will keep you posted... but thank you again for your time and suggestions, and also for pointing me to the Sleep Interview and FAQ sections.  I'm so grateful.
With much appreciation,
Lynette (Emma's mommy)

[Lynette Ng]

Hi Florencia and Zander's Mommy,
I hope you got my note of thanks.  I also wanted to ask another question if I may- our LO started night wakings every night this past week all of a sudden- does this happen when we are nap transitioning from 2 to 1 nap or might there be other causes?  I have read everything on the site (FAQs, postings..) and sleep interview etc...so I am aware of the top causes of night wakings, but is there anything I can do as a parent to prevent this, or will it just stop after a while?  We're now able to get her to nap by staying with her for 2 hours from noon to 2pm, then bedtime at about 7:30pm (she won't sleep earlier than that), but all of a sudden, she wakes at about 2am each night and stays awake crying then turns to playing for 2-3 hours each night, and won't let me leave or even lie on the floor- I have to sit in a chair next to her so she can see me.  Please help! I just don't want this turning into a habit.
Thank you so much again in advance from a very grateful mom. 
Lynette

[KellyC]

Well done on getting her to take a 2 hour nap.    I still think 2pm - 7.30pm is a long time.  What does she do if you put her down at 7pm?  Does she play?  If she's happy to play in her cot and then go to sleep after a while then I'd be tempted to give that a go so she's not so zonked when she eventually goes to sleep and that may help her to sleep deeper later in the night.

Kelly x

[imsmum]

Yes the night waking for a couple of hours can happen with the one nap transition and is a sign of overtiredness.  Is she asleep at 7:30 or is that her bedtime?  And when she wakes for a couple of hours each night waht time does she wake in the morning?  On the doays she doesn't wake in the night what is her usual morning wakeup time?  Is there anything you can do at night to help her get back down more quickly?

My dd did the exact same thing with the one nap transition and I realised during her night wakings that she would try to fall asleep say after an hour would start drifting off and then be unalbe to fall asleep  until she was utterly exhausted a few hours later.  I decided at this stage that the priority was simply to break the cycle of overtiredness so I started going in when she woke and standing there with my hand on her--yes for a whole hour or more, back breaking--but she would fall asleep and that helped get her more sleep in total.  I then did gradual withdrawal for the night wakings.

If you send us the usual "schedule"  then maybe we can help you tweak it a bit. 

[Lynette Ng]

Hi Kelly and Ims Mommy,
Boy- I was so glad to see your replies this morning  - thank you again for your help- I'm so grateful to know that you're out there for me!

It's been a difficult month all-in-all.  We've managed to help her with her naps and separation anxiety by staying with her (sitting in chair, sometimes stroking her head), until she's almost asleep, then leave.... at bedtime, we have to stay until she's totally asleep or she stands and cries again.  Bedtime can take some time, last night it was an hour and half- she just wanted to play peekaboo in her crib (even though she had been up from 2pm to 7pm- I put her down earlier at 7pm but she didn't sleep until 8:30pm). 

But we started having night wakings these past 2 weeks all of a sudden, which coincided with our transitioning to 1 nap.  When she was on 2 naps (10-11am and 3:30 to 5:00), bedtime was at 8-8:30, and she'd be off to sleep fairly quickly independently.  Then started separation anxiety and nap transition and teething, and we are now on the following schedule for most part:

- if no night waking or night waking but fairly quick return to sleep (i.e. 30min- seems to be hit or miss- some nights I am able to lay my hand on her and she settles more quickly, other nights, no matter what I do, she stays awake for 2 to 3 hours- e.g. this whole week ), she wakes at 6:30am, takes 1 nap at 11:30 say for 2 hours to 1:30 or 2pm, then I put her back down for bedtime after dinner, bath and bedtime routine at 7pm.  It can take her 30min to an hour to go to bed then, with me in the room.  I will definitely work on independent sleep again soon with wi/wo or gradual withdrawal, once we've got the night wakings to stop (since she's always been able to do so since we did PU/PD when she was 4 months).  Right now, she won't let me leave until asleep or close to.

- if night waking for 2 hours or more, first she cries for me, I go to her and try to settle her with stroking her head and PD, when she calms, she starts playing in crib for hours, and won't let me even lie on the floor, she wants to be able to see me in the chair.  In this case, say her bedtime is 7ish pm, falls asleep at 7:45pm, wakes up first time an hour or so after asleep 9:30pm, back to sleep quickly with my hand on her head and PD (20 min), then second night waking at 2am or so for 2-3 hours to 4am or 5am, then back to sleep until 8:30am.  1 nap again at 1pm for 1.5-2 hours to 3pm, then bedtime again at 7:30, with baby falling asleep at 8-8:30.  I find that if I put her to bed earlier than say 5 hours, she takes over an hour to go to sleep, whereas when she's up for 6 hours say, she falls asleep within a few minutes.... but in both cases, she started night wakings (2-3 times each night), and very restless in sleep, whimpering every hour or so. 

Night wakings only began all of a sudden these past 2 weeks, please help in any way- once again, thank you, thank you.  I wish I could give you both a big hug to show my sincere appreciation.  THANK YOU SO MUCH.

Lynette (Emma's Mom)

[imsmum]

Yep--same pattern of waking as Margot had--the first one a few hours after bedtime--usually when they come out of the deep sleep pahse in the first part of the night, the second wakeup in the second half of the night which ALWAYS takes hours to get them back to sleep.  I always knew too if she fell asleep quickly it was her crashing from being overtired which would, as you say, result in the night wakings, regardless. 

While I know it's difficult when THEY are being inconsistent, I found it helpful to try to be super consistenet with nap and bedtimes during the transition.  It sounds like you are pretty consistent with a bedtime but there is a lot of variability with naptime--I know I had the same thing because there was a huge difference in wakeup times, but it really seemed to help to be consistent with naptime as well--pick a time of say 12 o'clock and try to get as close to it as you can everyday. And is there naything that you can think of to help her get back to sleep during those wakeups in the 2nd half of the night--does putting a hand on her help then too?

I'm going to go bakc and look at dd's diary to see if there is anything else that pops out at me.  Hang in there, it's tough but they eventually get it!

[Florencia]

Hi Lynette!

First of all, congratulations on a succesful 2 to 1 nap transition. You wouldn't beleive the amount of mommies who struggle for MONTHS to get lo's nap longer than 1.5 for the one nap. And you did it fairly easy, i must say!

Now I would think the issue is Emma missing her windows for sleep and her inability to go back to sleep for her self. You say it takes her LONG to fall asleep when going down after 5 hours of awake time, does this happen with the nap too? if she crashes at the 6 hr mark, why don't you give a try to the 5.5 mark? at least for the nights if the nap is not a problem.

Although it is OK to stay with them in the beginning of sleep training, staying in the room for a period longer than 20 mins buys you some trouble. The most dreaded one is that when she wakes at night and takes forever to settle as you've been experiencing. I'd suggest you to stay with her for the first 20 mins (patting, shshing or just being there) and then leave and start with wi/wo for the following period. This might throw things to the wall for the first couple of days but since she's now used to sleep long naps, she now needs to learn to go back to sleep for herself. If you manage to "fix" the going down part, you'll find night wakings easier to handle and less long.

Also, talk to her about it during awake times. Play putting dolls and stuffed animals "to bed". Toddlers LOVE to imitate and can understand SO MUCH MORE than we can think of. Let her know how grown up dolly is for going to bed without crying. LEt her know that you also need your sleep but youll be in the next room (before you start winding down,t ake her to your room, show her your pj's so she understands where you sleep and how you sleep). Once you put her down, let her know what's coming on: Mommy's gonna stay with you for a while but then i have to go to sleep to my own bed... something like that. THe first attempts she'll cry hysterically, you just repeat your mantras: i love you, im right next door if you need me... you'll be surprised that she'll get it, it's jsut a matter of repetition.

So let's say you've done a long wind down, have waved bye bye to the dolls and animals, she's ready to go down. You stay in the room for no longer than 20 mins and keeping interaction at minimum level. Then you go and pat/kiss/rub her and say night night, mommy's gonna get her sleep (something like that) and wo. She'll cry for you, you count to 5/10/15, wi and explain her: mommy's gonna go to sleep i love you etc and wo. She'll cry, you count and wi and just lay her down (if she's already lying down just wi and shsh gently or pat/rub super quickly and wo). Repeat till she stops crying even if she's not asleep yet. Do the same for night wakings (without the staying in the room 20 mins, just wi, explain briefly the first time and wo). That way, you'll teach her how to go back to sleep for herself without needing you in there for long periods.

HTH and let us know how you get on! remember is a tricky road, filled with tweaks and stresfull moments, but you're doing such a great job, it shouldn't take you longer! Good luck!

[Lynette Ng]

Dearest Ims Mom and Florencia,
My great thanks and appreciation to you both for replying to me so quickly- I was just checking in the off chance and was thrilled to get your replies.  I will give your advice and suggestions a good try and keep you both posted.  In the meantime, I can't tell you enough how much your being there for me has meant to me, I am sure I speak for many other moms.... THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to be there for me, I know how busy you both are with your own little ones, so my heartfelt thanks again.
Lynette

[KellyC]

Good luck Lynette 

[imsmum]

Lynette-  took a look at dd's sleep diary last night and a few things struck me

--you are doing the same thing I did at first which is to put your lo down for a nap later when she has had night wakings because she wakes later in the morning.  this didn't work for Margot because, despite the later wakeup she was still quite tired from the broken night's sleep and she should've gone down for her nap closer to her"regular" time.  The later nap compounded the problem because then I couldn't get her down early for bed which is what she REALLY needed.  So again, try for a fairly consistent nap time with only about.5 variation and see how that works

--try to keep bedtime within about 5 hours of nap wakeup and no more than 12-13 hours from morning wakeup.  I used to calculate backwards ie if Margot usually woke at 6:30 and normally took a 1.5 hour nap then bedtime would be 7 and nap at 12:30.  So that's how I reached her"usual" schedule and I tried not to vary too much from that despite what she threw at me from day to day!

HTH and keep us posted!