I've had it with sleep training...I'm at my wits end!

[nattymarsh]

I spent almost 8 LONG weeks sleep training my dd to go down on her own instead of falling asleep on the breast.  We had it down to an exact science...the routine worked well, and it got so that at the end of the routine I could put her in her crib and walk away.  It was a blissfull three weeks while it lasted!  Now for almost a month we are back at it.  She's fighting sleep worse than ever.  It started to go downhill gradually and I dealt with it the same way as before but it's only getting worse.  She kicks, thrashes, screams, rolls onto her tummy (and wont sleep there or roll onto her back), giggles, laughes, yells, calls mumumumumum...etc!  Now we are spending half of our day (again) getting her to sleep and I don't even have the old boobie crutch to use now when I really need it (she no longer will fall asleep on the breast).  I'm at my wits end, what do I do?  I'm thinking about going out to sit in the backyard to let both her and I cry it out

[Wife and Mummy.]

Been there,done that,got the t.shirt.Me and   DH even moved into the living room so we couldnt hear our dd crying.Dont worry it wont last,it took my lo 1 week to realise we were not going back in and she started going to sleep on her own.Good luck.

[Lana]

{{{{HUGS}}}} to you.  I am right there with you.  I spent quite some time teaching #2 to sleep on his own.  We were doing great.  Then he learned to crawl.

Really we are right back where we started, like you say, only worse cause now he weighs more and cries louder .  Really all you can do is stick with it.  Eventually they get back on track.   #1 did the same and eventually he worked it out. so we are are hopeful it will work again.

I would strongly reccomend that you do not CIO.  You could end up worse off than you are now, not to mention that it is not something we endorse here at BW

[~Faye~]

Just wanted to send {{HUGS}} to you. Sorry you are struggling.

Faye

[Jaime]

so sorry you are struggling.  hmmm... if the problems started around 6 months old, could be developmental.  sounds like she's discovered lots of new tricks & want to play with them.  she probably also hit a growth spurt & was trying to get more calories in.  have you started solids recently?

also....  maybe her A times need a little tweaking?  maybe she's just not tired yet.

and to echo, i really think CIO is not the way to go.  in the end, it really creates more problems than it solves.  (and BW does not advocate it at all)

[Tonya]

Been there,done that,got the t.shirt.Me and   DH even moved into the living room so we couldnt hear our dd crying.Dont worry it wont last,it took my lo 1 week to realise we were not going back in and she started going to sleep on her own.Good luck.

From reports that I have read, published as recently as 2006, the CIO cycle WILL repeat itself at every "bump" in the road, like you are experiencing now.

 So, although the above says it only took their lo a week, I'd bet that was the *first* time.  At illness, teething, separation anxiety, growth spurts, etc....are you going to allow your child to CIO during those times too?  When they actually physically NEED you?  If you start CIO now, how are you going to know what your lo needs??

Not trying to be harsh...I know how tiring it is.   I've got another one on the way, and will be going through it all over again, but this time with a 2 1/2 year old to deal with as well.  But being a parent means parenting round the clock - not just during the day when it's convenient. 

Keep up with the routines, it WILL fall back into place!

[MorganLeigh]

I had the same problem with my oldest. When she was about 15 months I had had enough. What I started doing was putting her in her crib and then I would sit down next to her crib and not move at all. I would stare at a blank wall crying inside my head while I heard my DD cry. First night it took about 20 mins of crying staring at me begging for me and then finally she laid down and got her blankie and fell asleep. 2nd night took about 13 mins. I only had to do it 4 days. Im not sure about doing it for a baby under 1, it may be a little harsh but it did work and we havent had any problems since. I got this technic from Nanny Jo on Super Nanny. Worked like a charm.
HTH

[Zoey]

Yup Yup!  We can and will help you! 

Please don't let baby CIO, it teaches one thing - "They won't come no matter what I need, no matter how long I cry..."   

If you post your routine we all can pick through it and see if anything there is holding things up.  I agree with Stacy, if she isn't crying - she doesn't need you in there.  What method of sleep training did you use in the past?  Pu/pd?

You know these methods work - you have proof!  You also came back, which means you are hopeful they will work again!  I know we can help you, please let us try.

BIG SQUISHY HUGS!
Zoey

[Wife and Mummy.]

I take it cio means crying it out.Well like i said before i did it as i had tried all else.she was 9 months old i was 6 months pg and i knew i had to do something.Like i said before it lasted 1 week and we have never looked back she is 4 now and a great sleeper BUT she knows and always has that if there is something wrong or she is sick i would check it out.Just because bw doesn't approve doesn't mean you cant do it if your at your wits end.I'm not saying she should try this at all but if she did do it she will need support not people saying not to do it because bw says not too.I'm sorry if i sound harsh but i think we all know that having no sleep can make you feel so worthless.

[PeepersMom]

Big hugs.  Been there, too>  Still am sleep training.  I mean, do we ever stop?? Ugh.

I tried absolutely everything and I think that the key is consistency.  Even if it takes months.  The reason why I am still working so hard on sleep is because I tried everything and never just stuck to one technique.  It must take some babies longer to get it.  It did for PJ>  For naps I dont know that he ever got it......Nothing I ever did helped he just grew out of his short naps for example

But also for PJ every milestone hits him hard.  First was the rolling over = 3 weeks of sleepless nights.  And still horrible naps during the day.  Then the crawling. That wasn't as bad, but still 2 weeks of interrupted sleep.  Then the pulling up to stand.  THAT WAS THE WORST> one night he was up from 130am-6am.  No joke up and down up and down.......

Now I think we are having disruppted sleep due to walking but it is taking him a long time to figure it out so we are going on a month of less sleep.  He is waking up bright and early to start practice.  Like we are at walking camp or something.  GREAT>

Anyway, I would say that you need to just keep at it and the sleep will come back.  It sucks when you are going through it.  But changing what you are doing too drastically might mess things up.  A little tweaking here and there and riding it out is what works best for me. 

(And I say this all sooooo calmly as I write a post about early wake ups that makes me sound like a crazy person.LOL  do as I say not as I do..... )

[Zoey]

charlie&yasmins mummy;
I think its great that you want to help, and offer support.  However, we feel very strongly about supporting Tracy's beliefs and views regarding leaving a baby alone to cry. Tracy has asked us to remind posters that she always cautions against any form of crying it out/controlled crying because she feels it breaks trust between parent and child. She has said many times that there is a gentler solution for every situation, we just have to find it. We understand that all parents feel differently about this issue - but honestly this isn't the place to debate it.  I hope you understand.

If this is the sleep training method that you have chosen, so be it.  We don't recomend or advocate or offer support for it on this site.  Just because something worked for you doesn't mean it's the correct solution for everyone.  Just as BW isn't the correct solution for everyone.  Here is a link as to why it isn't recomended:  https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0


Respectfully,
Zoey

[nattymarsh]

charlie&yasmins mummy:  thanks for your support.  I have friends that have decided to let their lo cio gradually and it seemed to work for them...without any lasting ill effects.  I'm still not sure what I want to do, it depends on the day and how much of a struggle we are having.  I haven't tried it thus far though.
Tonya: I find parts of your post a little offensive.  " But being a parent means parenting round the clock - not just during the day when it's convenient."  It sounds like you are insinuating that I am not there for my dd when she needs me when in reality it is the exact opposite.  I wouldn't be on this forum looking for help if that were true.
Everyone else:  I really appreciate that you are willing to take the time to give me a little encouragement and advice.  Here's our routine:

6:30-7 am wake up
7am bf
7-8 quiet play, ie tummy time
8 am solids
8:30 stories, cuddles, nap (sleep is about 1-1.25 hrs long)
9:30 play or slolids if she refused to eat them earlier (which she does often)
10-11:30 play includes jolly jumper, play kitchen, stuffed toys, walks in the yard, tummy time, etc
11:30 bf
12:00 winddown and nap
1:30-2pm lunch
2-3:30-4 play
4pm bf
5pm catnap about 45 minutes
6 pm solids then quiet play
7 pm bath, routine then bedtime at 7:30

This routine is all over the place now since it sometimes takes 1 1/2 hrs to get her to sleep. I know she's tired b/c she's rubbing her eyes, yawning, whining, etc.

When I put her down I tell her I love her, give her a kiss and leave the room.  I do not go back in until she is begining to escalate...not neccessarily a full out cry but on her way to one.  If she is on her tummy I turn her over and repeat the above.  If she is crying I kneel down by her crib, pat/rub her tummy until she calms down then I will try to leave again.  It is to the point now that I am patting/rubbing until she falls asleep because she will start to cry the minute I remove my hand.  Suggestions?

[Tonya]

Sorry that I offended you - not my intention, although I do feel strongly about what I said.

Guess that's the reason I seldom post on the sleep boards - I don't come across as supportive as I'd like to whenever CIO is mentioned.

I hope that you and your lo find a way to make this work that works for both of you!

[Richelle]

Hi Nattymarsh,

Looking at your routin I think it may be that your DD' A times aren;t long enough.  I know she may seem tired at 2ish hours but at her age I think it is developmental.  My DD would always get cranky before she started doing something new, like getting up pn all fours and rocking, or rolling to get places, seriously she used to roll the length of the living room.  I would try and stretch her A times a little bit at first and see of that helps.

My DD still has a 'cranky' eye rubbing spurt a few hours after she gets up in the morning at 16 months. 

I say give that a try and see how it goes.  Also do you have an exersaucer or something along those lines?  These really helped me and DD when she was getting restless and frustrated at this age.

Has she started annything new physically?  Do you think it could be teeth?

HTH,

Richelle

[Missy Lou]

hey natty marsh.  how have things gone the past week or so?  my lo is about 6 months and a week and she's been sleeping crazy for a week or so.  i don't know what her deal is.  but she was a little nutty at 3 months too and it passed. 

one thing I did that helped her night time sleep a little and definitely her naps is to extend A time to 2.25 hours and spend that time rolling over, tummy time, encouraging reaching for stuff on her tummy, sitting up, talking, whatever to tire her out.  she is spirited and has a lot of energy so we're not too low key over here until after the catnap. 

i don't know what tonya's intentions were but i read her post to be her thoughts on letting baby cry instead of trying to fix the problem.  i just don't want you to think anyone is trying to insult you or force something down your throat.  this is by far the hardest thing i've ever done.  i went to law school, took that stupid bar exam, worked in a big firm for countless boring hours and had to deal with rude men and ruder judges and that was CAKE compared to this.  don't think any of us (or at all most of us; i maybe shouldn't speak for everyone) haven't had our moments of wanting to quit.  we don't because as the mom, we are super important.  we have the job of teaching lo all the important things in life.  sleeping is just the beginning.  there's always something hard that lo needs to learn.  at 7 months, it's sleeping.  at 17, it's dealing with a broken heart.  i've been at my wit's end so many times.  your lo loves you and needs you to teach her because she doesn't know.   in my opinion, that's why i don't like letting her cry because she's not really learning to me.  maybe charlie's and yasmin's mom feels like her babies did learn.  i just disagree.  to  me it's like disciplining a child without telling them why - they just know they don't like the situation but they haven't learned why.  baby willl cry until they're exhausted and can't stand anymore but still don't know why. 

maybe we could start all over.  i think your problem is getting her to bed at night?  is that right?  i can't remember, how old is lo?
melissa