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Offline ~Faye~

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Nothing is working.
« on: August 17, 2006, 22:16:28 pm »
I am really struggling with bed times now. Shay is teething and it is affecting his sleep like I knew it would. The only problem is nothing is working to get him down. We have tried WI/WO before and it has worked. This time he thinks it is a game. Here is a typical bed time:

Put him in his sleeping bag in cot,
He stands up,
Lay him down,
He stands up, giggles,
Lay him down, he screams,
Stands up, giggles.
Lay him down, he is quiet. Leave to do WI/WO he screams the second I leave the cot,
Go in he laughs and is standing,
Lay him down he screams and gets up................you get the picture.

I just don't know how to sort it out. He screams as soon as I take one step from the cot but if I stay he wants to play. He is tired I can tell by looking at him but he just wants to play. Laying him down again he thinks is a game. He will stand and giggle at me, I try not to smile but sometimes I can't help it. If I do I look away. We didn't ever do PU/PD as I didn't know about it at the right age. We didn't really have to do sleep training as he always got himself into a routine. I have been so lucky but this is a shock to the system.

He is also waking around 2am, could it be linked. Maybe teeth? I am so confused :(

TIA
Faye :-*
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2006, 22:27:56 pm »
What are his naps like (no I'm not stalking you this evening, honestly ;))?

I have a technique I use with ds when he does this (not very often, but it's really annoying when he does).

If he screams when I leave the side of the cot, but wants to play when I'm there, then I'll stay, but I'll pretend to go to sleep myself. I know it sounds bonkers, but honestly, it works :).

Firstly I'll sit by the cot, tell him in a calm voice that it's time for sleep now, then I'll close my eyes. After a while, I'll move to a lying position. You have to be really strict with yourself here, b/c ds will do anything to get my attention. He jumps about, he giggles, he talks, you get the picture. I even had to start putting about 3 dummies in his cot b/c he learnt that if he threw it at my head :o, I'd have to give it back to him. Basically, you do not react to anything except if he gets upset, then it's just a quiet reassure that you are still there, but it's sleepy time.

This does work, but it will take time, especially the first few times. I've been on the nursery floor for anything up to 1-2 hours, but safe in the knowledge that it will work.

Tell us what his naps are like, too - this could be linked.
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Offline ~Faye~

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2006, 22:39:00 pm »
Well I knew you were stalking me :o :o :o

But as it is you, I don't mind ;D

He has recently started cutting his naps right down. He was having two 1hr naps a day and now it is only 1 nap of an hour sometimes less. Since I have moved my mum takes him out for a nap in the pushchair so I can get some jobs done (insert catch up on BW ;)). The thing is I don't think he gets as long as she walks a bit slow and he likes a faster pace, so I think it takes longer for him to fall asleep. He has never taken naps in his cot, I have tried but it never worked. :(

He normally has a nap at about 11ish, sometimes later. He wakes at 7.30 and goes to bed at 7.30. I don't think he would go to bed earlier. The times we have tried it takes longer and causes lots of upset. He seems to automatically know it is time for bed then even if we haven't got the outine started.

Thankyou Caroline :-*

Faye :-*
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2006, 22:49:38 pm »
lol on getting your 'jobs' done ;)

You know, I hate to say it, but he may be overtired (sorry). I know that when ds goes to bed late, or doesn't nap properly, we will always have a nightwaking or too, often around 2am. His bedtime of 7.30 sounds OK (ds is around about then), but perhaps you should work on the naps in the day. Ds is the same age as Shay, and I know we're in for trouble if he doesn't get at least 2 hours in the day. If it helps, here's our routine:

7-7.30am wakes up, has bottle
8.30am breakfast
10.30 cup of rice milk
11.30-12 lunch
12.15 Balamory ( :-[ - the only way I can get him to sit still for 20 minutes and relax before nap :P)
1pm Nap
3.30pm wake from nap (I usually have to wake him)
3.45pm cup of rice milk/snack
5.30pm dinner
6.30pm bath, story, wind-down
7.15pm (around about) bed

Like I say, if he doesn't get that nap, then we're in for problems. What problems did you have getting him to nap in his cot?
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Offline ~Faye~

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2006, 23:01:12 pm »
Thankyou Caroline. I may have to try using that routine. I need to find something to get Shay to relax for a bit and then he may have a better nap, he is just always on the go.

With the cot for naps, it would take about 1 1/2hrs to get to sleep, he would sleep for 30 mins and that would be it. That happened every time I put him in his cot for a nap. If you have any suggestions I would love them. If I could get him to nap in his cot it would be great.

Faye :-*
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2006, 23:06:29 pm »
Quote from: shaysmum on August 17, 2006, 23:01:12 pm
I need to find something to get Shay to relax for a bit and then he may have a better nap, he is just always on the go.

That's our problem, and why I now use the Balamory (I know, I know :-[ :-[). He loves it - he sits in front of it (no lollops on the sofa), with his bottle of juice, and chills out for 20 mins. When it's finished (and we have to say bye, bye to all the characters ::)), he's a lot more chilled out and knows it's time to go upstairs for his nap. Not that I'm recommending this to you of course, but it's what we do ;).

I'm going to ask Stacy my co-mod in Naps what she thinks here, as I don't think things like pu/pd (or at this age just pd) are going to be appropriate for you. Maybe wake to sleep? - that's if he's sleeping for 30 minutes then waking up - have you seen the info for that on the Naps board?
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Offline ~Faye~

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2006, 23:08:57 pm »
No. I seem to miss a lot around here ::) I need to get off the pregnancy board a bit more ;D

I know I keep saying this but THANKYOU CAROLINE :-* :-* :-* you are so wonderful.

Faye :-*
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Shay
Ziggy Sleep well xxx
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2006, 23:10:16 pm »
 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[  :)

Check out FAQs in Naps for a bit more info.

I've asked Stacy to have a quick butchers, see if she can suggest anything
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Offline ~Faye~

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2006, 23:11:56 pm »
Oi helen, I can see you ;D
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Shay
Ziggy Sleep well xxx
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Offline Ennypen

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2006, 23:14:44 pm »
Faye, Caroline.. I am stalking you both... hehe.. not really just nosy..

Faye we have just been through all of this with William when he learned to stand up.. I know your frustrations well!

I basically did just as Caroline described above and after a week or so it calmed right down to being able to plonk him in his cot, kiss goodnight, teddy, dummy and walk out...  

I also agree with the wind down before naps and bedtime.. will has the fimbles before bed.. and it works wonders for the routine as he is all relaxed and knows that its bedtime once its finished and he hears the night night song on c beebies xxx

H xxx
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2006, 23:15:41 pm »
H - I'm so glad it's not just me (and me a Nap mod too :-[)  :)
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Offline Ennypen

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 23:18:10 pm »
In my humble opinion.... a small amount of TV at the right times ensuring that its a suitable programme, wont hurt. And most of all it works to help our LOs to relax and get a better quality of sleep which is beneficial in the long run xxx

Will is in love with Miss Hoolie by the way...

H xx
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2006, 23:18:40 pm »
Trollop ;) :D
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Offline Ennypen

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 23:19:44 pm »
Who me or Miss Hoolie lol lol lol... I prefer Roly Mo myself.. its that gorgeous welsh accent..
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Offline Caroline-Charlies Mummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2006, 23:23:27 pm »
Miss Hoolie I mean ;D

All that flirting with PC Plum. Disgusting :o.

Sorry Faye, a bit off topic there, eh? :)
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Offline Harrisonsmummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2006, 07:40:01 am »
Harrison sleeps in pram for naps. It drove me nuts trying to get him to sleep in his cot so I gave in for my own sanity! I used to walk him for naps, then walk him to get him to sleep and bring him back and park him up!

When we moved to one nap it got much easier - he was so knackered by 12.30 that I would put him in the pram and he would fall asleep without it moving, but I used to wait until just before the wake-up mark of 1hr 20 mins and take him out then to keep him asleep for longer. i extended his naps this way (I think)!

Now he sleeps in the dining room in his pram, if we have a very short nap - he wakes after 50 mins say, I leap in and rock him briefly to get him back off again, but most of the time he will sleep for 2 hours quite happily. I put his bag on just like in the cot!

I agree with one of the earlier posters - sounds like your lo is overtired - so I would push the nap back - aim for no more than 5 hours wake time from end of nap. While naps are so short, go for super early bedtime, with a few days of consistency - you should lose any night wakings and night settling will improve.

For a long time H would jump up and down in his bag at bedtime, I would go in lay him down etc! Eventually I stood at the door and told him to lie down, he would laugh, so I ignored it! He doesn't bother to jump up now at all! All those wasted hours!! If you can't get out ofthe room, stay and sit on the floor as pp said, and just turn your back and ignore the messing around! It's attention seeking and they seem to settle just as quickly as with constant put downs!

Good luck!

justine
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Offline ~Faye~

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2006, 08:45:10 am »
 ;D It gave me a giggle Caroline and H, you see I went to bed ;)

Thanks Justine. That has made me feel better about his napping in the pram. It's a good thought to take him out again when he starts to wake, I'll try that.

Well just to confuse me today Shay woke at 2am again this morning and as I was so knackered I brought him into our bed :-[ I know but I'm exhausted. Then he woke at 9.30 this morning. Great as I had a lie in but not so good to try doing some of the things suggested. Will start tomorrow unless he looks like cooperating today. ::)

Thankyou all you lovely ladies :-*
Faye :-*
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Shay
Ziggy Sleep well xxx
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Offline Harrisonsmummy

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2006, 11:36:49 am »
Late wake-up - ideal time for pushing to one nap! Nice and early and relatively easy to get a good bedtime and lo can catch up on zzzzz's!
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Offline ~Faye~

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Re: Nothing is working.
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2006, 15:30:12 pm »
Well just to update you all, Shay is now having one nap a day that is about 2 hrs and goes to bed at 7.30 and up at 7.30 with no wake ups ;D You just wait, now I have posted this he'll wake up tonight ;)
So thankyou all so much :-*

Faye :-*
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Shay
Ziggy Sleep well xxx
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