Wakes up screaming

[Jenna's Mum]

Hi, my dd is almost 8.5 months old.  We are trying to get from 3 naps to 2 and I have a question about night wakings.  When she only gets two naps and is overtired by the time I put her to bed, even though I put her to bed earlier when she only has two naps, we sometimes have a waking anywhere between 1 and 3 hours after she goes to sleep.  She wakes up crying/screaming and I looked it up and think it may be night terrors but isn't she too young for this?  The book I read said to leave her as she isn't even awake but that's not something I can do, so I always pick her up and cuddle her.  She's very floppy and I don't think she's awake, even though her eyes are open.  After about 5 mins, which seems like an hour, she sort of wakes up and then calms down.  At that point I put her back into her crib and she goes back to sleep.  Is this night waking normal for an overtired baby?  I really want to avoid it obviously, but already I put her to bed at 6:30pm when she's not had a third nap so I don't see how I can get her to bed any earlier as she eats at 6pm.  Is anyone else experiencing this?  It happens maybe once a week or once every ten days, so not every time she's overtired.  It upsets me to see her like this but we are really battling the third nap right now so sometimes it seems unavoidable that she's overtired at bedtime... any help/advice would be much appreciated, thanks.

[Colin Macs Mom]

I LOVE your avatar, what a gorgeous picture!!! 

At 8.5 months she should absolutely be on two naps a day instead of 3. If you could post your routine I can get a better idea of what's happening, but to answer your main question nightwakings are the norm when a LO is overtired. I suspect that the naps need to be longer, but can't tell without your routine.

[Jenna's Mum]

Yes sorry I should know better... here's her routine...

6am wake (but I don't go into her until about 6:45 because she's happy and sometimes drops off for another 5-10 mins)
7am bottle (8oz)
8:30 - 10:00 nap (sometimes, like today, til 10:15)
11am bottle (8oz) plus attempt solids but she usually doesn't have much
1 - 2-ish nap (sometimes 2:30pm, we're working on getting this nap to start at 1:30 or 2 but it's tough because she gets overtired)
3pm bottle (8oz) plus again we attempt solids but she's not eating much
6pm bath
6:15pm bottle (8oz)
6:30pm bed

if she has had a third nap it's because she woke from her afternoon nap after 30 mins and so then I get her down around 4 or 4:30 for half an hour.  Then we have bed around 7pm instead of 6:30pm.

She is usually pretty tired at the 8:30am nap, I'd love to get her to 9pm or later but because of her early wake-up time it's almost impossible without her getting overtired.  She used to sleep til 7am-ish but now with the earlier bed time, she's waking early... aarrgghhh it's so consufing!   

Also I've been trying different things with the solids, like waiting 30 mins after the bottle or an hour, and also trying her at 5pm for some "dinner", but she's just not that interested at all in solids it seems.  I'm just hoping that magically she will want some one day    I thought maybe she's getting too much formula but I'm reluctant to cut back because I know this is her main source of nutrition at the moment.  Even though she's waking occasionally with this crying, other than that she's a great night sleeper.

Thanks!

[Colin Macs Mom]

No worries   

It sounds like you might have a LO that needs more sleep than average - mine is that way too. When she wakes from the naps, is she happy? Rested?

Don't worry about the solids - at this point they're just for practice and like you said her main source of nutrition is the formula. She'll come around, just keep trying. She should be ready to drop a bottle soon though!

I forgot to answer your night terror question before - and no, she's not too young. That could be the problem but it's hard to know for sure. 

[Jenna's Mum]

Yes she almost always wakes happy and rested... unless she only gets half an hour in which case she's a little grumpy.

Yeah I read the thing on night terrors and it sounds exactly like dd when she does that... I try my best to make sure she's not overtired but sometimes it just happens anyway 

Today I have to say has been the perfect nap day... she had 8:30 - 10:15am this morning, and this afternoon fell asleep at 1:15pm and didn't wake up until just after 3pm!  Fantastic!  If only she could do this every day   

PS thanks for the compliment earlier on my dd's picture 

[Colin Macs Mom]

It is hard to avoid overtiredness each and every day - there are always going to be off days and days when things need to be done at a certain time that will screw things up. That's ok, it's how life goes!

Let me know how she does at night now that she napped so well - I'm curious!

[Jenna's Mum]

Well as I said earlier, yesterday was a perfect nap day.  She was happy all afternoon, we had dinner at 6:15pm and then I put her down for bed at 6:45pm and she was asleep by 7pm.  Not a peep out of her until 6:45am this morning 

Now she's currently down for her first nap, so we'll see if today works out as well 

What a great day yesterday, I wish all days could be like that.  I love it when she gets a good night's sleep, it breaks my heart when she's crying and screaming with what I think are those night terrors, tears roll down her face and I can't do anything but cuddle her until she wakes up and realizes she's ok.

[Colin Macs Mom]

That's great that she had a perfect night! Hopefully she will get out of the night terror phase soon and that can continue!

[Jenna's Mum]

Well we had a bad nap day yesterday, and so sleep wasn't so great last night but different than the night terror thing.  Could it be separation anxiety creeping in?  I put her to bed at 6:30pm because she didn't get a third nap and she was tired.  At 7:30pm she woke up crying, but not screaming.  She was very upset, I went in and cuddled her, she had real tears and was very upset.  Finally she calmed down and I put her back in her crib and she went back to sleep.  She had a restless time though, tossing and turning a bit more than usual (I'm guessing tossing and turning is quite usual anyway?)  She woke at 4:50am crying again, so I went in and cuddled her.  This time when I put her back in her crib and walked away she started crying again.  I went back in, soothed her in her crib but stroking her head, etc.  She cried when I walked out.  I went back in and sat in the chair by myself and she laid in her crib looking at me quite happy but not going to sleep.  So then I stroked her head, told her to go back to sleep and left the room again, this time with the door open.  She started to cry but it wasn't as strong so I waited for 30 seconds to see what would happen and she fell asleep.  Could this be due to overtiredness?  Separation anxiety?  Something else?  I'm just hoping today's naps are better.

[Colin Macs Mom]

It would be a bit early for any separation anxiety, but that's not unheard of. Those things could also be related to overtiredness as well.

[Jenna's Mum]

Well she was very tired that's for sure, but this is odd behaviour for her, but do you think that with the switch to two naps then it's kind of throwing her off?  She didn't have a great nap this morning so she's gone a little early for her second nap, which may mean I have to try to get her a third nap again.  Trouble is, she fights the third nap most of the time so doesn't get it anyway.  Ugh, I guess I'm confused trying to get from three naps to two... what's an ideal nap schedule?  She's usually awake at around 6:30am but I don't get her up or feed until 6:45 or 7am, so should I adjust the routine I posted earlier or just stick with it?     Thanks for all your help.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Sometimes a transition like 3 naps to 2 can cause some bumps in the road, that's true.

An ideal schedule is relative to the LO of course, but I would suggest something like this, adjusted for her needs.

7:00 wake and bottle
8:00 solids breakfast
9:30/10 nap
11:30ish wake and lunch
12:30 bottle
3:00 nap
4:30/5:00 wake and dinner
6:00 bath
6:30 bottle and wind-down
7:00 bed

I made the nap times a little wishy-washy because I wonder if your DD needs a bit more sleep that is average.

[Jenna's Mum]

Well, I'm back    We have successfully gotten dd down to 2 naps per day, and the night wakings seem to be few and far between now.  Her first nap is usually around 9:30am til about 11am, sometimes longer, like 2 hours.  But now we're struggling with the second nap.  Seems like she never gets more than an hour for this one.  I'm putting her down around 1:30 or 2pm, hoping she'll get til 3pm or later but this second nap is tough.  Do you think I'm putting her down too soon?  Too late?  So bed time is still around 6:45pm or 7pm, depending on how late she sleeps for the second nap.  Sometimes we have a little crying at bedtime but not often and not for long, and no night terrors for a while. 

So we seem to have the first nap figured out and she loves to sleep a long while for that one... any advice regarding the 2nd nap? 

Thanks 

[Colin Macs Mom]

That's great!! Glad to hear that things are so much better!  I would try putting her down maybe 30 minutes later for that nap. I definitely not a nap expert though!