Help! Will my 7mo ever nap easily? What am I doing wrong? & unsupportive husband

[rashope]

Hi everybody,

Sorry this post is going to be long...

I've lurked on this board off and on for the past three months but this is my first post.  I put my daughter on E.A.S.Y. at about 4 1/2 months after starting her off feeding on demand and putting her to sleep by breastfeeding.  I had just started to try some AP by laying down with her for naps, etc. Alas, none of them worked consistently and she was napping less and less frequently, and no longer regularly staying asleep while I placed her in the crib/swing after breastfeeding her to sleep. She has slept great at night since 2 1/2 - 3 months, but she had become harder to get to sleep.  I had to do something.  I read BWSOYP and decided on E.A.S.Y. Except it hasn't been easy at all, and it's still not easy.  I need some help!

I had prided myself on having a baby that seldom really cried, but that was only because at the first peep I would stick her on the boob... and was encouraged to do so by my husband who always insisted she was hungry when she cried.  I was at my witt's end, and had little help taking care of her.  I recruited my husband to help me with PU/PD.  he was reluctant to help.  He couldn't stand the crying, and has gone back and forth helping and refusing and rejecting the BW's system since we started.  Therefore, I think maybe I haven't stuck to plan as strictly as I should have as I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place between the baby's crying and my husband's disapproval in the plan.

So, what has happened is after a few days of PU/PD done exclusively by me, it started kicking in.  After a few weeks I was still having trouble with short naps, and she wasn't consistently going to sleep easily as I thought she would be.  Plus PU/PD took a lot longer to put her back to sleep than putting her to sleep in the first place, in part because she would be playing more than crying.  After another week or two we decided we would only put her back down if she hadn't slept more than 45 minutes, as I was spending all of my time for weeks in the bedroom putting her down for naps, and beginning to wonder if she just didn't need as much sleep as other babies.  As soon as we decided this, She magically started taking longer naps.  Longer naps continued up until a couple of weeks ago when we stopped swaddling.

The reason we stopped swaddling is Sophie started becoming furious when it came to swaddling time.  She'd started rolling about, and would unswaddle herself (it was an Amazing Miracle Blanket) and would fiddle with the blanket until she'd worked herself up into an agitated state, unable to fall asleep.  I would rewrap her, and she would sometimes go right to sleep, but other times she would unswaddle herself on purpose and not knowing how to sleep unswaddled lay there fidgetting with her clothes, the blanket, etc. until I came in and reswaddled her again and again until she eventually went to sleep.  Staying with her sometimes helped, but she more often gets playful than goes to sleep, and I felt like a fool waiting there with her while she played (and she would play and play...).  I tried leaving her there playing, once or twice she went right to sleep (making me think my presence was keeping her awake) and other times she would start fussing and then crying.  Other times she would fidget to free her arms of the swaddle and then go straight to sleep.  At the time I decided to stop swaddling, she had begun screaming at the beginning of swaddling and would keep crying and crying.  If she wasn't going to sleep swaddled or not, I might as well take the plunge and teach her to sleep unswaddled, as I was beginning to worry about the loose bedding and her rolling around in it anyway.

So, there we were doing PU/PD to teach her how to sleep without the swaddle.  We seemed to have 2 or 3 really good days.  And then she started pulling up!  It just never ends!  And my husband can't tolerate the crying, he insists we're torturing her and that it's not good for her.  I can't argue that it's just a regression because we have never had a length of time where she went to sleep consistently well on her own!  It seems like at least once a day I have to at least stay there with her (and those are the good days, and never more than a few in a row with more bad than good!)  For the past week or so it's been nearly every time she goes to bed. with an occasion time she goes to sleep well.  Since she's pulling up, she wants to do it continually.  She'll stand herself up, and unable to get down will cry when her legs get tired, or worse fall over and bang her head on the crib.  Even when she's dead tired, she'll keep climbing up.  I tried letting her stand up and then putting her down, and she didn't even cry.  I would put her down, she would stand back up again.  We did that for over an hour and then she would get frustrated and start crying a little, have a minute's hard cry, then start giggling and try to stand up again!  And it's not that she wasn't tired, because her eyes were crossing, and she was rubbing her face and wobbling from exhaustion!  I try waiting until she looks sleepier before starting, and giving her plenty of exercise and practice during activity time...  I've tried putting her down sooner, but often I worry that I'm putting her down too soon and it stresses me out (especially considering how my husband reacts to the crying) I have discovered over the past couple of days that what seems to help is standing there with her, when I can see she's not going to go right to sleep and laying her right down as soon as she sits up.  Even then it takes 20 - 30 minutes with only the occasional cry of frustration before she settles to sleep.  That's been the best solution so far, and this is the second or third day I've been doing that for every nap time (except this one, thank God, she went to sleep as soon as I laid her down.)

My husband insists that I'm too quick to put her down and that if she's sleepy enough she'll go to sleep on her own.  I try my hardest to watch her and wait for the cues, but she's really really hard to read!  Sometimes he suggests that we put her down at the same time every day, then she'll be used to being sleepy then.  He tells me that we should allow her to set her own schedule, and that she knows better than we do whether she needs sleep.  He says if her body is telling her that she needs to be up playing then that's what she needs.  He tells me one minute that he can't stand the crying, and the next he says if she's really sleepy (undeniably because she was sleeping on the boob, for instance) then we should put her in the bed and leave her there, and let her cry to sleep, that she would soon understand that she has to go to sleep.  He thinks me staying there with her talking to her when she's crying is keeping her from going to sleep.  In short, I feel like I am getting no support, and my confidence has been hacked to pieces.  He can't/won't put her to bed so it's all up to me.  I have to be here for feedings (I have trouble pumping enough or finding the time to pump) and for nap times, so I never get any time to myself.  There were a couple of times when he has put her to bed by my method, but he really can't hack it.  I care about his concerns, but he hasn't come up with any suggestions that I think will work, and I don't just want to try things out for fear we'll lose what progress we've made.  I told him if he wanted to try something different then he can take care of her for a while.  He says he's thought of it, but so far he's not willing to take on the job. 

She's in a crib in our bedroom.  It all blew up this morning when she woke up at 5 am and was just wiggling a little (I could hear her)  My husband, who was just coming to bed then woke her up all the way.  She then let out that gasp sound she makes when she sees her daddy and pulled herself up.  As she can't sit down yet without banging her head or just crying, I got up right away and laid her down.  Maybe I should have waited to see what she would do?  After over an hour of putting her back to sleep, my husband started arguing with me yet again about the flaw of the system.  He says that we're putting our own needs above those of the baby.  I spent 30 minutes with her trying to sit up occasionally, and otherwise fidgetting and quietly trying to get back to sleep.  She had the occasional frustrated fuss.  At 5:30 -5:40 she broke out into a real cry and it took me 30 minutes of PU/PD to get her settled to sleep.  I asked my husband afterwards how much she cried, to see what he considers crying, and he said she cried for an hour and a half!  He's so sensitive to her crying, and he's been very depressed, escalating since we started E.A.S.Y. but I don't know of any alternative!  His parents have told him that he as a baby hardly cried at all during the day, and they left him to fall asleep wherever he was.  I think he's told them that Sophie cries all the time, but she doesn't.  She's nearly always happy all day during activity time unless she hasn't napped well and/or she's getting frustrated at trying to stand up (and sometimes just as nap time approaches).  His parents have told him that she should just keep sophie entertained if she gets fussy and if she's tired enough she'll fall asleep wherever she is.  That hasn't helped his support of my method!  And who's going to get up with her at 5am (with only 6 hours of sleep) to be taking care of her while she's fussing all day because she seems to be able to go and go and go and just fuss and fuss and fuss?  Me!!  I already don't have much of a life when she does get a nap or two in.  He's practically insisting that I sacrifice my sleep and life to keep her from ever crying.  And I don't even think it will keep her from crying, because she'll be crying from tiredness!  I spent the first 4 1/2 months protecting her from ever crying by putting a boob in her mouth and sacrificing my own needs and I can't do it again!

So my question is if E.A.S.Y. is supposed to be easy, and she's supposed to be consistently going to sleep on her own way before now, what am I doing wrong?  She's breastfed, but I've eliminated all caffeine except for chocolate occasionally (not even weekly these days).  She doesn't get too much stimulation (perhaps too little?) as I don't watch much tv, and we stay at home nearly all the time, because now that she's on solids, there's about enough time for BF, solids, and an hour or so before her next nap.  I've been waiting until her naps were consistent to try napping in the car.  We go to the grocery once a week, and my husband and I take her out with us to a restaurant occasionally.  We spend lots of time with her, and she's also able to entertain herself plenty.  She's probably bored to death of the house, but what can I do?  I feel trapped, and I'm getting more and more depressed myself.  I'm losing the motivation to get up and take advantage of the free time I have.  I envy the moms who get out and do things with their babies.  Can someone please help me?  Sometimes I think she'd be better off in day care, because I'm obviously not doing anything right

Becky

[¤ Efka ¤]

I have no real advise for you, just hugs and if it helps my LO is 4 months and 1 week , we started when he was 3 weeks , so we are doing it about same time as you and he still is not easy to pu down for nap and bedtime. But I am still hopeful

[rashope]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks so much for responding!!  Here are the answers to your questions:

E.A.S.Y. - it varies daily, but this is pretty average:

7:00 awake and BF
7:30 or 8:00 Breakfast: cereal and fruit or veg
7:45 - 8:45 Plays on her own for a bit while I get breakfast, then I play with her a bit looking for signs of sleepiness.
8:45 Usually getting sleepy, Naptime.  Used to regularly have 2-hour naps, now she has 40 minute to 1 hour naps here.
11:00 BF
11:30 or 11:45 Lunch: Veggies or fruits
11:45 till naptime play

--- this is where things have veered off course over the past couple of weeks.

Used to be: (total cumulative naptime: 3:30
12:45 or 1:00 ready for nap.  Usually napped for 1:15 - 1:30
3:00 BF
3:30 or 4:00 Dinner:  cereal and veg or fruit
4:45 started getting sleepy because she was used to taking catnaps around this time up until she started sleeping longer.  She usually made it past this

sleepiness and went until bedtime just fine.  If I tried giving her a catnap when she napped well the rest of the day, she seldom settled without a big

fight.  But if she didn't nap well the rest of the day, this is when she had a catnap.
4:00 - 6:15, went out shopping or to restaurant occasionally, If we stayed in, she seemed more sleepy at around 5 - but I suspect it was at least partially boredom although we played with her.  She just needs a change of scenery.
6:00 or 6:15 BF She was usually hungry about this time
6:30 - 7:00 a little low-key play before bed unless she's really sleepy
6:15 or 7:00 Bath and bedtime
10:30 DF Just started moving this forward gradually to phase out.

Now: (total cumulative naptime: 2:30)
12:00 Sleepy, ready for nap - usually takes 20 minutes or more with her to get her to nap.  Naps 40 minutes or so
1:30 - 3:00 playtime
3:00 BF Often falling asleep on the boob
3:30 or 4:00 Dinner:  cereal and veg or fruit
4:00 already sleepy, catnap.  She takes a little to settle her down, but often Sleeps for an hour or more here.
5:30 - 6:30 playtime
6:30 or 6:45 BF
7:00 - 7:15 Bath and bedtime.  It's often taking 30 minutes to an hour before she settles to sleep.
10:00 DF Still moving this forward.

I can see now that I type it out that it's important to make her get sleep in longer stretches during nap time or she's tired at food time, etc.  It's just ALWAYS so much more difficult to get her back to sleep, we seldom accomplish it before it's time for food, and it just ends up being an hour of fruitless crying.  And since my husband is so sensitive to it, I am reluctant to do it.  (Not to mention it means I get no peace.)  I also think it's important to get her in bed as early as I can while we're still having trouble with her naps, because she's going chronically overtired.

For nap winddown, I sing to her during diaper change (the only way I can keep her from wiggling), and cuddle her for a few minutes before moving to the bedroom.  Then I turn off the light, close the door, pull the curtains if they're open, but they're usually always drawn.  I sit with her on the bed and hold her, but she's always turning and reaching for the crib.  Short of sitting there while she's reaching around or holding her still (I think this would be counterproductive) I don't know what else to do except go ahead and put her in the crib.  It does seem to go much better when I hold her for longer, but that just means she's already mellow.  What would you suggest as a nap winddown?  I've tried reading, but books excite her, so it doesn't help.

As for the sharing the same bedroom, I'm afraid we're in a one-bedroom apartment, but we'll be moving in November when our lease is up.  Apart from moving her out into the living room (which won't work, for obvious reasons) she's stuck in our room.  Although I think it'd be worth paying the extra money to break our lease in order to get more room!  With many more nights of her waking up in the middle or very early, as she has done for the past two, my husband may begin to agree with me on this.  We have the curtains drawn, but it's nothing like nighttime dark in there.  Do you think it would help to get some blackout liners or thicker curtains?  They're fairly thickish dark colored curtains, but there is still light shining through them.

I'm completely stumped as to what to do when she stands up.  This morning nap when I went to lay her down I cuddled her, she was all mellow with eyes half closed. I laid her down, she acted as if she would go to sleep, rolled over and everything.  I went out, and a minute later, she fussed.  A minute after that she was climbing up.  She stood up for a few minutes until she was fussing, and then starting to cry frustratedly (not really bawling, though).  I went in, she was quiet immediately. I laid her down, she acted again like she might try to go to sleep and not knowing how to treat it, I stayed.  Since I read your comment yesterday about doing nothing when she fusses or plays I was completely unsure of what to do at this point.  I mean, is it like shh/pat where I stay until she's asleep, or do I just lay her down, and if she's still and quiet leave again?  What happens when she starts to cry because she sees me leaving the room?  Do I leave and see if she settles down, do I turn around immediately and come back?  What do I do when she stops crying as soon as I get to her crib?   What if she keeps crying, and I have to do PU/PD and all of a sudden her sobbing cries turn suddenly into giggling squeals and she starts climbing up again?  I am so completely confused and unsure about everything.  I feel like quitting and putting her with someone while I go back to work where I feel like I can accomplish something    She's sweet and cute and loveable, but her sleep is driving me nuts.  When she did finally go to sleep this morning (not knowing what to do, I did what I've done for the past two days, staying with her and gently preventing her from sitting/standing ) I stayed in the room with her waiting for 20 minutes or so to pass and for her to go into deep sleep.  She had been still and quiet the whole time till the 21 minute mark when she jolted and let out a cry.  She went quiet again but was a little wiggly like in REM sleep, then there was a crack on the window (expansion or something) and then all of a sudden she just sat up and started climbing up the front of the crib!

I know I'm floundering now, completely unsure of what to do in any circumstance that doesn't involve her just laying down and going to sleep.  My husband has just told me that he's decided to learn how to put her to bed, and he's willing to do the job for the next two weeks!  I really want this to be a success, so I want to cement the plan before he begins (and maybe try it for the first two days or so before turning it over to him...)  Thanks so much for your help, I'll be anxiously awaiting your suggestions!

Becky

[Joshua's Mum]

Hi Becky,

Lots of hugs. There is always the light at the end of a tunel.

I just want to share experience of what I've had with J. I must say that I was delighed when I came accross BW book, it helped me a lot.
However, DS never actually followed BW routine and I am not sure why. But he actually followed Gina Ford-s routine ( I am not advertising this), which was not an easy book to read to rigid for my liking, and that was more or less;

When he started having solids;
7am BF
8am or 8.30am Breakfast
10-10.30 - nap, or maybe about 9.30 till 10 - i can't really remember
11.30 or 1.45 lunch - included protein
12 -2 - sleep - not always 2hr sleep
2.30 BF
4-4.35 - nap, sometimes later, I have never let him sleep longer than 5 or 5.30
5.00 - tea,
6.30 or 7 - BF
10pm - DF - stopped at 6mths when solids were properly established

She could also be hungry, I would try to introduce protein and carbohydrates. For example I know myself that I've head only veggies or fruit for lunch and similar for tea I would probably hungry in the night - just a suggestion

Also, when J used to be fussy with his naps during the day I used to put him in the pram and gone for a very long walk which helped a bit.

I also think that reason you can hear her at night is because you are in the same room (good luck with the move in Nov) as babies make lot of noise, as you probably know by now . Try ear buds.
I can remember when we moved J into his room,he was then 6weeks old and making sooo much noise.

p.s - J was up last night at 1am for about 45min and when DH picked him up I got the biggest smile ever :)They are so loveable


Just hang in there and everything will be fine very soon

Lots and lots of hugs

[rashope]

Thanks for your proposed schedule.  I've been putting her to bed a little earlier still today because she was up early this am and didn't have much sleep last night, so she was extra tired today.  What I think I'll do is give your routine a try tomorrow first thing.  I am becoming hopeful

I think since our apartment is small, and dh is so sensitive to her whimpers, I tend to hover, going in too quickly and staying past the need.  This has caused her to expect me to stay with her while sleeping or interact with her if she doesn't want to sleep.  I don't really know anything about WI/WO except what the words imply, but I think I may need to use that now because when I walk in the room or lay her down, she goes quiet and resumes crawling and climbing.  Part of the reason I've been hovering more than usual the past couple of days is because she doesn't know how to sit back down.  I think I made a mistake helping her stand up and trying to teach her to sit back down during naptime the first day she started pulling up, and then all of a sudden it was playtime.  Plus, being worried about her not being able to get back down, and after so many bumps that day, I didn't want to leave her in there standing up on her own...  Now that she falls much less often I'm not so worried about it.  

So here's my idea of how to correct this, tell me if you think this is a good approach or see me getting into any trouble with it:

I leave her there happy at nap time after short-ish wind down.  A few minutes later she starts crying hard.  I go in, she cries till I lay her down, then she stops and goes to climb back up again.  I tell her it's nap time and leave the room saying bye bye, she climbs up again and the whole thing repeats... she gets quicker to cry, eventually escalating into PU/PD situation...  The idea is she learns I'm not going to stay and play with her and she's there to take a nap.

I really appreciate your help, and I'm feeling hopeful.  I've been typing this response off and on all afternoon.  She's been napping now for over an hour and a half, and it seems that we're already shifting to your proposed routine...

Becky

[rashope]

Thanks Joshua'sMum,

What kinds of proteins are offered at this age?  Chicken?  Here in the States it's not usualy offered this early from what I understand.  She's not hungry at night though and hasn't needed fed at night for months and months.  The last two days' night wakings I think were only related to standing.  Otherwise she's been an angel at night for a long time.  BTW she woke at 5:30 this morning, and while I didn't look up to see her, I think she was standing.  She cried for just a minute, and I dozed to reawaken a little later and find her fast asleep.  So... I think we may be over the hump...

Also, how did you stop the dream feed?  cold turkey?  These are probably more suitable to a new thread, but I'm curious lol

Becky

[rashope]

I just started using WI/WO yesterday, and I think it's just what we need, as she doesn't refuse to lay in her crib, it's just when I'm leaving that she cries.  But now I have a few questions...  Just now it took 45 minutes of WI/WO to get her to sleep.  I don't know if I'm going in at the right time.  She stands, just as she's standing she starts crying and looking at the door.  But her cry isn't like a really upset cry, it's like an attention-getting cry.  It's like WAHHHHHHH (with a raw-throat sound coming deep from the lungs for two or three counts) two quick deep breaths and repeat.  Should I wait until genuinely distressed sounding cry (with sobs) to go in?  Although her face is red and scrunched up when she's doing this cry, she doesn' t have more than just one tear.  I really have to hold myself from going in (sometimes I wait a little longer and sometimes I don't), because I have conflicting voices in my head: one telling me not to be a bad mom and I don't ever want to let her cry it out, the other telling me to wait until she's really distressed because she'll learn faster that she needs to go to sleep on her own because she's understanding she isn't getting what she wants... Any thoughts on this? 

BTW, since we have an extra hour between first nap and second, we took the opportunity to go out (something we haven't done in a while) and she fell asleep in the car for a few minutes.  Have you found short naps (5 minutes) in the car between naptimes to affect their next nap?  She only had 40 minutes morning nap because she fought it so hard, and I had to do WI/WO for a long time this morning.  Would you expect it to take a few days before she learns not to expect me to be in there during naptimes?

Thanks for all your help.  Although putting her down for naps hasn't actually gotten quicker yet, I feel that I have a game plan now, so it feels a lot less stressful for me now, and I feel a lot of hope for it working soon.

Becky

[Joshua's Mum]

Hi Becky,

You are doing great and I am very glad to hear that, WELL DONE. Just go with your instincts and you'll be fine. And the baby.You sound like you are on the track anyway.
Also, "WE ARE ALL BAD MUMS" sometimes, it is only normal. In the beggining it has taken me quite a few times to have J sleep in the evening.But you do actually know when they are in distress, you can't not to hear them.
I mean J is 8months today and for last couple of days I had him having tantrums, kicking his feet on the floor when I've taken something he shouldn't have from his hands and yes this evening before his sleep he sat himself in the cot ,smiling. They must be on Duracell bateries. I give up sometimes. However, there is nothing better that having this great,big smile in the morning. 

I gave chicken to J when he was about 6 1/2 months for lunch,he had first taste of solids when he was 5mts (only baby rice and veggies and fruit) and as he started nursery with 6 1/2months they gave him all sorts of meat and he is fine. 
I assume you DD is about 7months ?

Anyway, let us know how you get on, and as I said before, you're doing just fine, just follow your instinct's.

I apologise for my English, I am actually of  Croatian origin and have lived in UK for last 11years.

Bye

Lots of hugs

[rashope]

Last night she didn't make a peep all night!  She woke up right around normal wake up time as usual!  yay!  Okay, so we're scoring a partial victory. 

Naptime was a trial, however.  She was sleepy and ready.  She was resting her head on me when I held her, and I laid her down, then she decided to start climbing up.  I left then and I waited until I heard what I thought was genuine distress, did wi/wo a few times, then she got all worked up, I did pu/pd, she went calm and acted like she would go to sleep.  I stayed for a minute while she was settling down.  She stopped crying, and started closing her eyes.  I put the gate up on her crib, then she started crying again and sat right back up, I laid her down, still crying... did pu/pd a few more times.  She acted like she would sleep again, then crying all over again.  Then magically the tears dried up and she started climbing up again.  So I left and had to do wi/wo again a few times.  Then she FINALLY laid there and did a little really loud frustrated mantra crying and when she got quiet and started looking up at me I said night night and left.  I l istened for a few minutes and heard her making some funny cooing noises. The whole thing took about an hour! 

So... my question is... Does it sound like I'm doing it right?  It went about the same way as yesterday, except perhaps that when I left she was awake and she didn't cry, whereas yesterday she fell asleep and I waited for a few minutes and then left.  The duration was probably the same.  Perhaps a bit shorter.  When I walk in and put her down and she lays there doing loud agitated mantra, do I stay?  What about if I've had to do pu/pd?  I feel like I must have made a slip up after the first pu/pd or she wouldn't have gotten all quiet and started climbing again.  What do you think?

Becky

[rashope]

Okay, so now let me ask you about this whole shifting of the routine thing (naps being an hour later than previous).  She seems to get really sleepy around the time that I've been putting her to bed.  And then she cycles between acting really sleepy and playing until her new nap time.  Is it normal for her to act sleepy about the time of her previous naptime out of habit, or does it mean I should be putting her in bed?

Thanks for your vote of confidence.  I don't feel like I have such great instincts or I would have been able to make it work by now... but maybe I've just been trying to walk the middle ground between BW and my husband and haven't really applied it like I should have?  But I think I've mastered the PU/PD, as it does work, and she doesn't actually fight being in her crib in the first place.

My husband has said that he will take over and put her to bed from now on if he can do it his way, but I'm going to do it BW style if at all possible.  He says if I can put her to bed perfectly for two weeks then he may come around and learn how to do it my way

[rashope]

More success to report!  This naptime I laid her down and left her and she didn't even make a peep!  She slept for 40 minutes, and I had to do wi/wo for about a half hour and now she's asleep again!  It's definitely getting easier!    Let's just hope things keep moving in the right direction!  But I don't see how they can do otherwise as long as I stick with it!  Wahoo

[rashope]

Just wanted to update you on our progress. 

Yesterday she went to sleep easily in the morning and slept 1:20.  We went out after lunch, and she slept 25-30 minutes in the car on the way home just before naptime which made it impossible to get her to finish napping (although I tried for an hour and a half.)  But at bedtime she went to sleep without any trouble at all. 


Today so far is going perfectly!  She woke up at 6:15 this am and stood up but went back to sleep quickly on her own.  The morning nap went smoothly.  She fussed a little, but went to sleep without any help from me.  I heard her cry for a minute after an hour or so, but she quickly went back to sleep and ended up taking 1:45 nap!! (her longest in a week or two!)  Now she's happy and refreshed, and so is mommy!

[rashope]

Well, as for hubby's reaction - It's too soon to tell because we've had days like this before, and it's never lasted more than a few days.  When we've had lots of pretty good days in a row, then we'll see 

[rashope]

We had about two good days and since then has been mostly difficult!!  She's been very difficult to put down for naps and bedtime (requiring wi/wo and pu/pd) but she sleeps fine once she's asleep.  her naps are pretty good length - around 1:30 each, sometimes a little longer.

At first I put it down to regression, but now she's had about twice as many bad days since she had good days!  She seems really tired at 8:30.  This is about the time when she has always seemed tired, but because of your advice I've been trying to wait until 9:30.  However, she gets so fussy coming close to naptime it's hard to hold off.  Today I started the wind-down at about 9:15 and she was calm and cuddly when I hold her, but as soon as I went to put her in her crib Wahhh!!!  She is VERY VERY hard to see sleepy signs.  She yawns a couple of times at around 8:30, but she doesn't yawn at all any other time.  Her eyes sometimes start drooping, but usually only when she's very very tired.  So the fussing is about the only clue I have, and she probably fusses about being bored, overstimulated, etc. too, so I don't really have a clue when she's getting tired.  In this case is it a good idea to just go by the clock?  It seems like as soon as I try to play it by ear I get it all wrong.  0nce during wind-down even after seeing no sleepy signs she fell asleep while I was holding her!

In the evenings she's usually falling asleep at the breast at 6:45 - 7:00.  If we go out she falls asleep on the way home (at around 6:30) unless my husband or I sit in the back with her and keep her awake.  Even after having 3:15 - 3:30 in naps during the day.  I try hard (some days I don't try as hard as I need to) to keep her awake during bf and she's usually crying because I won't let her sleep when I sit her up, I wait a minute for her to wake up all the way and do a quick quick bath and put her in bed... And the past few days she's been really hard to put down for bedtime.  Last night she fought for 50 minutes or so until she finally conked out at around 8.  so that's 11 hours sleep last night.  I got her up at around 7:10.  And tried to put her down at 9:15, but she didn't actually fall asleep until around 9:45.  Will she eventually get used to the longer activity times and not act sleepy at around 8:30 and not be so cranky?  Should I have stretched out her activity times gradually?  (At the point when I put her on the new schedule things had turned to chaos because we were having a complete breakdown, so it didn't seem to make much difference if we did it gradually or not.)

Also, a lot of times she doesn't wake on her own at 7:00 and I've been waking her to stay on track.  Sometimes she moves around a little picks her head up and lays it back down and like she's just waiting for me.  Is it better to let her wake when she wants to?

I'm feeling a little let-down, but when I read my own post I think the answer is just to give her more A time between naps, and just go by the clock until I can see her sleepy signs.  I think I need to put her to bed earlier in the evenings, but how do I do that, since her 6:45 feeding is only 2:45 since her previous feeding already?  Last night (even though she was falling asleep on the breast) she put up such a fight going to bed that I didn't know what the problem was.  Is she still getting the hang of the wi/wo and new routine?  Or is my tweeking her naptimes getting her messed up?  Or what?  Help!

[rashope]

Things are getting no better... her max naptime during the day is about 2:15, which I wouldn't mind so much because she's usually very happy while she's awake except that she continually falls asleep on the boob at 6:30 and she's a pain to put down for naps EVERY SINGLE TIME these days.  We're never having it easy anymore, and it's really getting me down.  It's like things keep getting WORSE!  I'm seriously thinking about taking my husband up on his offer to deal with her naptimes from now on.  Is she over-stimulated?  We've been having the tv on for 30 - 45 minutes in the morning... she does some walking around with my help, pulls herself up on the furniture.  She plays on her own in her pack & play for about 2 x 15 minutes while I fix her breakfast and have mine.  Do you see any problems with her activity time? 

I've been spending a little more time with the wind-down the past couple of days, and the first time or two she went to sleep much better, but not since.   I'll keep it up, though, because a day or two backwards may not mean it doesn't help. 

What's frustrating is I'm not even sure I know the difference between fussing and crying.  Maybe the whole problem is I'm going in too much because I'm mistaking her fussing for cries.  So she never learns now to settle herself down??  Can I post a sound file and get opinions?